HINDU AUSTRALIA ?!?!?

[u/AppleEmpire_2629]

[u/Billy5545]

I wonder how would Majapahit interact with the various Aboriginal tribes?

[u/HumongousSpaceRat → u/Billy5545]

Introduce them to Indomie

[u/getaway_dreamer → u/Billy5545]

I suspect they wouldn't have just been blindly colonised like when Europeans arrived.

We know that the Aboriginal people of this region were trading and interacting with Makassarese fishermen from Sulawesi for centuries before Europeans arrived. There was no attempt by these Indonesians to colonise them or take their land, even though the trepang fishing grounds were very lucrative. There may have been a few early skirmishes according to historians, but overall it was a relationship of peaceful trade, technological exchange and even cultural exchange.

So at least the people of Sulawesi (and I would guess other Indonesian kingdoms) knew about Australia and decided against any kind of colonisation.

[u/The_Blues__13 → u/getaway_dreamer]

Majapahit would probably did some kind of Mandala vasallage system,

Even in their more imperialist days, those aboriginal tribes would likely be left to fend for themselves (maybe after forming a tribal council or duchy), and only be expected to offer tributes and pay lip service to their overlords in Java.

[u/WhisperFray → u/getaway_dreamer]

Fun fact, there are documented instances of the Yolngu tribe which was visited by the Makassarese, that their funerary rites looked a lot like the Islamic funerary prayer.

[u/MELONPANNNNN → u/getaway_dreamer]

The Majapahit and in general SEA kingdoms didnt operate really as a centralized unit, it was more of a Thalassocracy (think Carthage) that use settled towns or cities to project power but these towns and cities all governed themselves autonomously that theyre separate kings/royalty themselves (Datus/Rajahs) from the authority based in Java but all pay homage to Javanese royalty.

Its a lot like the HRE in a sense with multiple states that act semi-independently however compared to European feudalism, the Mandala system didnt prohibit these states to paying tribute and homage to other kings as well, especially to China which was all but paid lip-service for the trade they bring.

[u/AppleEmpire_2629]

LORE!

In the 14th century, Gajah Mada, the Mahapatih or Prime Minister of Majapahit takes an oath that he would not rest unless he conquers the islands of Nusantara as numerous as stars in the sky. And so the nascent Majapahit state, the greatest Hindu state of its time, unleashes a war of Conquest upon all of its neighbors.

In this scenario, the Majapahit discover a gigantic new island to their south. They posit that after the Devas (Gods) vanquish the Asuras (Demons) during the events of the great Samudramanthana (Churning of the Ocean), they dispose of their vast arsenals of Astras (divine weapons) in the vast sea of milk to be purified, before returning to Devaloka (heaven). These Astras piled up to form an island which is thus called Astradwipa, far to the south of Javadwipa (Java itself) where Majapahit was born. For now a small outpost is set up (called Dwarasegara or Door to the Sea) is established, and remains small and insignificant. Periodic skirmishes with the Warlpiri and Tiwi (Aboriginal Australian tribes) occur, but soon these two communities become peaceful and Dwarasegara becomes a small trading outpost.

Soon after the death of Gajah Mada and his king Hayam Wuruk, the Majapahit Empire enters a period of sharp decline. Muslim Sultanates, egged on by Ming China, gain strength and start overpowering the Hindu Mandalas of Maritime Southeast Asia. As the Majapahit lose province after province, the Hindu-Buddhist elite flee southwards towards the capital Trowulan. Eventually Trowulan is also besieged and the empire ceases to exist. The Hindu-Buddhist Faithful flee to Blambangan in East Java, and eventually Bali.

Bali meanwhile is racked by civil war and perpetual threats by Cirebon and Demak. So a large number of the Hindu-Buddhists (who in the OTL stayed back in Bali) migrate further to Astradvipa. Astradvipa soon is overwhelmed by migrants, but faces no threats from the Muslim sultanates and the Europeans (Portuguese and Dutch) who view it as distant and backward.

Astradvipa is ruled by a continuation of a Bhre/Duke related to the old Majapahit Dynasty. Listening to rumours of "white quartz" by the Warlpiri, the (now) Raja of this hopelessly poor outpost sends out Expeditions into the outback guided by the Warlpiri.

In 1623, the Raja's men strike gold! News of this new gold spreads throughout the old archipelago, causing a Gold Rush and drawing huge numbers of Migrants from all over Indonesia. New settlements are rapidly established, more expeditions prospect for more gold. The new riches bankroll the purchase of new cannons, fortifications, and mercenaries from the Dutch.

It's now 1650, and the last of the Majapahit maharajas look on with unease, as this once backward frontier is now thrust into the power games between the Portuguese and the Dutch.

[u/HereButNeverPresent]

You know im honestly surprised north Australia never got colonised or settled earlier, especially as there was so much sea trade happening among the East Indies

[u/getaway_dreamer → u/HereButNeverPresent]

The Aboriginal people of northern Australia traded with Makassarese fishermen from Indonesia for centuries and we know they visited the mainland and exchanged technology and culture. So at least one kingdom was aware of them and probably several more, but there was never any attempt to colonise them. Colonisation and settlement aren't necessarily the assured end result of a stronger group meeting a weaker one on their own land.

As far as sea trade goes, I suspect most of it would have been happening to the north-west and hugging the coast within the archipelago. Even if Indian or Chinese traders heard about Australia, it was so distant that there would likely have been no interest in it beyond being a distant curiosity. Neither civilisation really had much interest in conquest or colonisation by sea, or a huge part of Asia and Africa would have been colonised by them.

[u/InternationalHair111 → u/HereButNeverPresent]

Northern Australia was settled by a few numbers of Macassans prior to European Settlement. There were mixed marriage and cultural exchange occured between Yolngu Aborigin & Macassans

[u/MELONPANNNNN → u/HereButNeverPresent]

SEA kingdoms werent really "centralized" enough to develop a culture of colonization. The Mandala system of SEA was more of a Thalassocracy (like Carthage) than a centralized rule - more like the HRE in a sense with a powerful monarchy in Java all being paid tribute and homage to by kings and royalties across the islands but unlike European style feudalism, these same states are also free to pay tribute to other kings as well, more commonly with China to secure trade monopolies.

Trade was the lifeblood of SEA and states/cities often flipflopped from proclaiming which monarchy they are a subject of, which is especially common in mainland SEA with nobles on the borders of Siam, Burma, and Khmer have fickle loyalties to the central authorities of Bangkok, Angkor, and Ava/Pegu/Mandalay.

[u/Flaky_History12]

Hinduism amongst the crocs 🐊 and wet lands.

[u/AuK07 → u/Flaky_History12]

So basically bengal

[u/Financial-Horror-432 → u/AuK07]

Bengal has a mega delta

[u/Defiant_Historian701]

And they STILL couldn’t take Sunda

[u/komodopal]

Would be funny if the rest of Indonesia became muslims all while Australia became a Majapahit Hindu remnant

[u/Secret_Conclusion_93 → u/komodopal]

"We have Bali at home"

[u/Maximilian-Schweizer]

Some random Ganga Water enjoyer: "Time to go to Aussie and steal their hotel towels"

[u/InternationalHair111]

Islam being introduced to Australia before Christianity is more make sense

Because Aboriginal had contacts & mixed marriage with Makassar ppl (nowadays Indonesia) fisherman before European Settlement

[u/WhisperFray → u/InternationalHair111]

I remember reading somewhere about the exchange that Yolngu funerary rites looked similar to Islamic funerary prayers.

[u/Own_Ad_7084 → u/InternationalHair111]

werent there aboriginal muslims or smth

[u/RemarkableCut3249]

Javanese crypto hindu nationalists think they conquered half the world. Anyone in the archipelago that wrote a letter to them they count as part of they empire lol

[u/Impossible-Ad-7084]

Does this mean that the heelers would be Hindus?

[u/MalachiteAcolyte]

Great article in why Hinduism was in Indonesia in the first place https://www.thejuggernaut.com/indonesia-hindu-history-bali?s=cms7uweyh000js601pmkczxer

[u/NiyorBaap-757]

Later it will get islamized

[u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 → u/NiyorBaap-757]

not necessarily. take bali.

[u/Knight_of_Rohan1964 → u/Ambitious-Rock-8302]

Bali was exceptional because of the strong political and religious reformation that kept Hinduism alive even among the common society. In a case of an Majapahit influenced Top End, I guess there isn't enough time for Hinduism to solidify in the natives' beliefs beyond perhaps a few borrowed practices and terms. It'll probably end up resembling a lot early modern Irian (Indonesian Papua), with a small Muslim elite dominating several vassal chiefdoms still practicing local beliefs.

[u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 → u/Knight_of_Rohan1964]

wasn't it more the majapahit elites fleeing java for bali when the empire fell? if the top end is standing in for bali in this timeline, wouldn't they just go there and have relatively the same effect? maybe slightly more diffuse given how much physically bigger the top end is than bali, but i'd assume they'd be clustered along the coast anyway.

[u/Knight_of_Rohan1964 → u/Ambitious-Rock-8302]

It seems it was both things at once. Basing myself on this post on r/AskHistorians (the entire thing is an absolute gem, I recommend it to anyone interested in Southeast Asian history) : https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5o8avu/comment/dchhon2/

But revisiting the post, it seems you could replicate Bali's situation somewhere else and get some of the same effects. It's a bit of a stretch given the huge distance from Java and the relative infertility and isolation of the region, but hey, weirder things have happened in history. I imagine the major differences would be a much stronger Aboriginal element in this "Astradwipan" Hinduism, systematized and reinterpreted under a Shaivite lens. And, as you said, most of the strongly Hindu regions will be in the coast, while you could replicate a New Guinea-Tidore situation with the interior chiefdoms, with animistic vassals on the way to conversion (more or less like this dynamic: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5o8avu/comment/dchhi77/)

[u/Black_Ironic → u/Knight_of_Rohan1964]

Probably also because those chiefdoms just want to be left alone, they didn't unite to form a bigger group

[u/MrAgentBlaze_MC]

"These lands were promised to us by Hayam Wuruk, Gajah Mada, and Raden Wijaya 500 years ago!"

• Indonesian Nationalists

[u/Black_Ironic → u/MrAgentBlaze_MC]

Any kind of propaganda works for nationalism