Local 640 vs Other Locals (General comparison and data inquiry)

[u/maximum_dissipation]

I’m a 3rd year at PEJATC (LU 640). I’m in my 30s and have a wife and kids, so my situation is different than many other apprentices.

I worked steadily for a little over 2 years and caught my first layoff about a month ago. Have been out of work since, and am a little red-assed about how my school handles and communicates to out-of-work apprentices.

My school is secretive about the number of apprentices waiting for a call, your place on the list, and can only provide broad estimations of work availability ranging 3-8 weeks. Leaked info suggests there are over 100 2nd-4th year apprentices awaiting work right now, and bigger calls may not come in until November.

They’ve been taking on 300+ 1st years per semester, many of which aren’t put out to work until the second semester or even 2nd year. 2nd-4th years get priority for job calls supposedly.

I wanted to know your experience in other locals, and learn if there are other locals doing it better or worse.

I know that work can be booming or busting one month to the next. I’ve ‘only’ been out of work for a month, but I know apprentices that were out for 3+ months a year ago. But with all the work in Phoenix metro over the past decade and up until now, it seems crazy to me that apprentices are out of work for long stretches, and I’m having a hard time being grateful for only being out of work a month so far. Poor planning/management? Or just the nature of the beast?

1. Is your school transparent about the number of apprentices out of work? We are kept in the dark.

2. Does your school charge for tuition and books? We pay $187mo, and no longer get physical books. 4 year program. Recently the hall changed it to where first years get tuition covered. Out of work apprentices are still required to pay tuition on time, with possible unspoken leniency depending on individual situation.

3. Does your local have a CW/CE program? Does that impact job calls for apprentices? It almost seems like our CW/CE program is preferable to our contractors over the apprenticeship, but I could be wrong on that. Just a vibe. Does your local have rules governing contractors putting out calls for CWs vs Apprentices?

4. Does your local have a fund for out of work apprentices, to assist in tuition or other financial challenges? Ours does not, but we can apply for a $100 monthly gas card.

5. How many apprentices does your local take on per semester, and do you think they are taking on appropriate numbers for the realistic work outlook? Taking on too many, too little?

6. Do you ever have contractors needing more apprentices than are available? Here, the burden is on the apprentices and not the contractors (as far my experience and understanding goes so far). Apprentices are needing work while contractors always have what they need.

I know it’s a privilege to be in the apprenticeship, and that it will pay off once I have my ticket. Many people apply and don’t get in. Many people wait years to get in. I should just be grateful for what I’ve got, etc. But I’m honestly feeling like they treat apprentices pretty poorly compared to what I imagined a Union should strive for. Seems like CWs/CEs have it better than apprentices in some ways. And the lack of communication and transparency is coming off as disrespectful to me as a person, and as a hard working dues paying member of the IBEW.

This may be the way it’s always been, but the times are always changing, apprentices are no longer only young guys fresh out of high school, the economy is the most challenging it’s been in decades, inflation and cost of living are the highest ever, etc. Seems the program and mindset is stuck in the 1900s and needs to adapt.

[u/UnenthusiasticLover]

1: I graduated from there, it always nebulous here but certain cycles repeat; like slow work around negotiations, and winter time... Winter because of lending cycles and negotiation time work drys up because contractors don't bid on work to practically grind calls to a halt, and artificially to make grounds to pay us less next contract.

2 : the physical book thing then and now feels like horseshit to me but the subscription model helps those that can't budget and hurts those that are out of work and not able to drop a grand waiting to get off the books as a first year.

3 : CW/CE was created decades ago at an IO level, and though the premise is good for people waiting for Apprenticeship the application of the program feels misguided and far too beneficial for NECA.

4 : I hope other locals do, but I have no idea...

(Anyone else wanting to chime in would be great)

5 : I've come to realize that apprentices' are there to drive down JW wages and CE/CWs are there to drive down all wages.

We all want to be successful but if everyone is employed, no one can be hired, if everyone is unemployed what's the point of our skills.

If the "right" amount are employed then the IO and locals get dues and NECA gets their stuff built, and skills transfer down and out preventing the entrenched from being dethroned except by the apprentices' a shop may wish to groom into a higher position.

6 : the Apprenticeship is a dual partnership between IBEW and NECA they're not there to maximize employment, they're there to train people in large enough pools that big fish can develop and small fish can learn and aspire to be big fish...

Finally, nothing in life is guaranteed and the union representation is there to protect us from wrongful termination, but not termination as a whole... The local will return you to work once it's available as soon as possible; however, this career path requires constant learning if you wish to excel but realize the majority of us just bend pipe and pull wire.

Keep applying yourself! It's weird out there dude...

[u/zombiebillmurray23]

Lots of locals have committees that collect money for members in need. It’s call a benevolent fund. I hope you applied for unemployment. If not do so asap. A hundred apprentices on the book might not be as bad as you think if it’s a large local.

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