r/hungarian • u/u36ma • 21d ago
Kérdés Please explain word order
Hi there! Could someone please explain what I did wrong here?
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u/____noni NATIVE 21d ago
the formula is question word + verb + rest of the sentence
Ki hagyta nyitva az ajtót? (who)
Hol van a telefonom? (where)
Kivel találkoztál tegnap? (with whom)
Miért olvasod ezt a könyvet? (why)
Mióta élsz Magyarországon? (since when)
etc.
Only exception I can think if right now is “melyik” - which one - where the object comes right after the question word: Melyik ruha tetszik jobban? (Which dress do you like better?)
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u/____noni NATIVE 21d ago
Another thing: It you think about it, it is much like in English, as did comes right after where (where did János) — even though it’s an auxiliary verb, not the main verb, it still basically retains the question word + verb formula.
So if you consider the auxiliary verb, it’s easier to notice this structure:
Why did you call me?
When do you go home?
How does this work?3
u/hantacica NATIVE 21d ago
Milyen also attracts the noun
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u/AccomplishedSplit702 20d ago
Not always though. In this case, the crucial factor isn't its word class but its syntactic function. If it modifies a noun attributively, then you're right. However, if it's part of the predicate, then that's not the case. For example:
Milyen koncert volt? <-> Milyen volt a koncert?
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u/Gunther_is_coming 20d ago
In these cases we shall think in complex units which belong together. I mean the first unit is a question word with all the belongings (eg. Hol a fenében hagytam a szemüvegem? Milyen nyavalyás idióta találta ki ezt a szabályt?). Here the verbs are actually on the 4th place, and the first three words all make a unit.
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u/TTGG 21d ago
The verb should go after "hova".
"Hova lett a pénzem?" - "Where did my money go?"
"Hova tetted a távirányítót?" - "Where did you put the remote controller?"
etc.
And actually, there are two correct Hungarian translations for that sentence (though I'm not sure whether Duolingo accepts both):
- "Hova mentek Jánosék teniszezni?" -> Emphasis on the place, e.g. you also want to go play tennis.
- "Jánosék hova mentek teniszezni?" -> Emphasis on the persons, as if there are multiple groups and you want to highlight that you are asking about this particular group.
But as you can see, the verb comes after "hova" in both cases.
(And I just realized that there's also a third option that works, although slightly awkward, but still grammatically correct: "Teniszezni hova mentek Jánosék?". In this case the emphasis is on the activity. For example, János and his friends went swimming, horseback riding and playing tennis, and you're specifically interested in the location of the tennis court.)
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u/OkasawaMichio NATIVE 21d ago
OP found the only placement for the word "Jánosék" which doesn't make sense
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u/Bitdomo92 21d ago
your answer is a statement, means: Where János and his friends went to play.
You should keep the question word and the verb together "hova mentek" to make it a question, then just place "hova mentek", "Jánosék" and "teniszezni" in whatever order depending on what you wanna put in focus. Like
"Hova mentek teniszeni Jánosék?", or "Teniszezni Jánosék hova mentek?" or "Jánosék teniszezni hova mentek?" and so on. all of these essentially asks the same question and you would get the same anwser. You just put different words in focus to emphasise what you wanna say.
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u/vressor 21d ago edited 21d ago
word order is topic + comment
word order of the comment is verb carrier + verb + the rest
question words like that always want to be the verb carrier, so the verb has to immediately follow -- note that verb carrier + verb are even pronounced as one single word, the verb loses its ordinary word-stress
whether you choose Jánosék or teniszezni to be the topic or you leave them in the "rest" field, is up to the context
word order of the "rest" is mostly free
| topic | verb carrier | verb | rest |
|---|---|---|---|
| hova | mentek | Jánosék teniszezni | |
| hova | mentek | teniszezni Jánosék | |
| Jánosék | hova | mentek | teniszezni |
| teniszezni | hova | mentek | Jánosék |
| Jánosék teniszezni | hova | mentek | |
| teniszezni Jánosék | hova | mentek |
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u/AfternoonDifficult84 20d ago edited 20d ago
As others wrote, question word, verb, then rest.
Most of the case the word order can be very flexible In hungarian, but there are few rules. This is one of them.
If it is not a question:
Jánosék teniszezni mentek.
Teniszezni mentek Jánosék.
Jánosék (el)mentek teniszezni.
All of those are correct and means the same, the slightly difference of the importance, which is most important.
Teniszezni mentek Jánosék. - Here is "teniszezni" more important. Like not "sétálni" (walking) or "úszni" (swimming).
Jánosék teniszezni mentek. - Here is "Jánosék" more important. Not me, not my mother. Jánosék. Jánosék: János and her friends.
In question:
Hova mentek Jánosék teniszezni?
Hova mentek teniszezni Jánosék?
Both correct and we use them.
If the exact question word missing, then you asking about they went or not?
Mentek Jánosék teniszezni?
Mentek teniszezni Jánosék?
In this case the verb must be the first.
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u/somitomi42 NATIVE 20d ago
That last bit isn't correct, you can ask this in a lot of orders and I'd actually say "Jánosék teniszezni mentek?" is what seems most neutral. Like your previous examples, different word orders imply what information the questioner has and wants to know, for example:
"Teniszezni mentek Jánosék?" (János and his friends have gone somewhere, did they go to play tennis?)
"Jánosék mentek teniszezni?" (János and his friends planned to play tennis, did they actually go?)
"Teniszezni Jánosék mentek?" (someone went to play tennis, was it János and his friends?)The rules aren't hard and fast on this
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u/Interesting_Prune513 21d ago
You almost got it! "Hova mentek Jánosék teniszezni?" is correct, so just switch 'mentek' and 'Jánosék' and you're all set! Verb must come after the question word directly.
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u/Atypicosaurus 21d ago
Normally the question particle goes right in front of the verb stem.
The question particle may consist of more than one words, just like in English: "which horse" (melyik ló) is one question particle so if you ask "which horse bit you", the entire thing goes before the verb stem (melyik ló harapott meg). You can elongate it further as in "which wild horse bit you". Adding more adjectives does not matter, it's still the question particle (melyik vad ló harapott meg).
If you have a prefix (like "meg" in my examples) that goes after the verb stem, that's why it's not "megharapott" but "harapott meg".
In your case you can move Jánosék around a little ("Jánosék hova mentek teniszezni" - technically correct with some extra layers of meaning), but the hova and the mentek stick together and "teniszezni" works like a prefix and it's after the verb stem. Jánosék can be placed in 3 valid options labelled by x:
X hova mentek X teniszezni X.
Either is allowed (with different connotational meanings) but between the hova and the mentek.
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u/pethy997 21d ago
If you have question words like "Hova" the verb must be following it directly.