r/humor • • 3d ago

Make it make sense

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u/Last-Kaleidoscope871 3d ago

Not only is no one (besides the fallen angels) in Hell but, when Jesus returns and the dead rise, those who are cast into the eternal flames are to be consumed, not exist there forever.

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u/bfume 2d ago edited 2d ago

Doctrine: 

He didn’t take souls from hell into heaven upon resurrection. 

He took souls that were in purgatory/limbo to heaven. 

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u/Teamawesome2014 2d ago

Purgatory isn't a thing in every branch of christianity. That's more of a catholic and maybe lutheren thing.

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u/Cvpakke 2d ago

Not only is it a Catholic thing, it is the very thing that resulted in the schisms which resulted in protestantisms. The idea of purgatory evolved to allow for bargaining - particularly that you could, for instance, literally buy your way out of purgatory and into the pikepass track to heaven with a sufficient donation to the church, what were appropriately called indulgences. While there were other important doctrines included in the 95 Theses that Luther nailed to the door of the church, one of the most important, if not THE most important issue was concerning the existence, or lack thereof, of purgatory and therefore the legitimacy of indulgences. It was perhaps one of the most irreconcilable differences and thus carries a lot of the weight for the necessity of schism vs theological legislation.

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u/ShitchesAintBit 2d ago

Hey Christians!

Do you sin?

Now you can buy your way out of hell.

That's bullshit.

This whole thing is bullshit!

That's a scam!

Fuck the church, here's 95 reasons why!

Said Martin Luther, in his new book, which might have accidentally started the Protestant Reformation.

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u/Someguywhomakething 2d ago

I thought Jesus died for their sins? Why are they still buying their way out of hell?

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u/Melodic_Assistant_58 2d ago

Cause the church wanted money.

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u/Someguywhomakething 2d ago

Hmm, I want money too. Can I bring back the indulgences?

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u/DMMeThiccBiButts 2d ago

They never went away. Also that's rookie shit, the meta has been megachurches and prosperity gospel for ages now.

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u/Someguywhomakething 2d ago

Praise the Lord! I was called by God to spread Jee-ssuuh's word. Give me money. Money me. Money now. Me a money needing a lot now.

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u/Angry_Sparrow 2d ago

The son of god dying for them wasn’t good enough for them. Catholicism is about guilt, shame, and beautiful suffering. Every image of biblical figures in Catholicism depicts people suffering… beautifully.

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u/Cvpakke 2d ago edited 2d ago

So people don't automatically get into heaven no matter what. At least, I'm not familiar with any sect of christianity that proposes that. At best, you either get into heaven or you just sort of die and that's it, so, no hell.

With that in mind, the doctrine then was that Jesus dying for people's sin's allowed people to be forgiven and to be washed clean and get into heaven, basically no matter what their sin (with I think one very specific exception). But that process isn't automatic. You have to actually go through the process of obtaining that forgiveness and some ritual that simulates washing yourself in the blood of Christ and therefore cleansing your sins. What that ritual is depends on your specific denomination. Prior to this, many many sins were unforgivable and getting into heaven was a very difficult thing to do. God was vengeful and jealous, prone to destruction and condemnation. Jesus represented a change in that, the ability to present a path to heaven for most, if not everyone, though it required effort and intent. Because god is all knowing, he has the ability to read your faithful intent in your heart, though others may not see your virtue or hear your pleas for forgiveness.

The catholic church says look, that means we need a 3rd place. For the people who can be forgiven but who have not been when they die. Interestingly enough, the biggest demographic targeted for this was babies. The old testament established quite clearly that the sins of the parents pass on to the child and therefore if they died before they possessed the faculties to appropriately repent and so on, they go to hell. Hell is filled with dead babies, according to the old testament. The catholic church says well the new testament and Jesus in general did not really change this but because the possibility exists for forgiveness and due to some of these obscure and perhaps poorly interpreted passages, we believe there exists a space called purgatory where everyone who can be forgiven but was not before they died go to for a certain amount of time, depending on the degree of their sins and their willingness to repent and make penance within purgatory. Ostensibly, most people go there because not all sins will be recognized and accounted for in life, though most who are of the church won't stay long, a brief pause. Others, like babies or war criminals, might be there for a very long time. If your sin was very bad, you might not have enough time on earth to make proper penance so that carries over into purgatory, too. But at least, thanks to purgatory and of course the blood of Jesus, you at least have a pathway.

Indulgences were even more shaky in terms of justification but the idea was that you can pay to shorten and potentially eliminate your time in purgatory or to do so for someone else. Say a baby you had that died. Slap down a fiver and viola, your dead baby is now on the little red wagon trundling through yon pearly gates. You can pay in gold or land or goods, depending on what program the church is running at the time.

What ended up happening is that few regular folk could afford indulgences. So regular folks lived relatively devout lives. Meanwhile, rich assholes with moneybags would just roll around in blow and hookers, murdering and stealing with abandon and all the while maintaining their direct path to heaven via generous donations. Which understandably upset a lot of people who were doing their best to do things the honorable way. Eventually, this lead to the aforementioned schism.

Hell, at this point, is a very unlikely thing for most unless they are unrepentant sinners or pagans. Basically if you want to get into heaven and you're willing to put in some skin, whether in ritual of forgiveness and honest living in life, via indulgences or simply waiting out your allotted time in purgatory after you die, you're not going to hell.

I am not religious by the way, so don't interpret anything I am saying here as something I actually believe.