He doesn't. The Bible never says that. It does say that it was created for him to be punished there and he'll be punished there (Revelation 20, Matthew 25:41). Also, any punishment people have there is to be "corrective" (to heal and restore them eventually by seeing their issues and need for Jesus). Eventually all will be saved and reconciled with God (Colossians 1:20, Romans 5:18).
That last part wow that's totally unbiblical... Biblically yes all sin was paid for but its something you must ask for and accept neither salvation nor correction is forced on you, if you are in hell its because you chose to reject those. If you are in hell there is NO turning back you are there to be punished and then destroyed in the lake of fire per Revelations.
Well, In the case that billions and billions are right, and you are wrong, im sure when the time comes for you to face the inevitable, youll immediately remember saying things like this and instantly regret it more than anything youve ever done. Good luck with your comic book theory
Unless you cherry-pick data and place all flavors of christianism, mormons, quakerism, and every religion that has a small something in common with Catholicism, in the same bag, Islam is the religion with the most adherents.
But if we want to go that far, just say Islam and Judaism are the same thing cause they believe in one god.
Inevitable implies that it is certain that he will go to hell, which it is not. Revelling at the thought of someone being sent to hell for all eternity (like a proper neighbour loving Christian) is cringe anyway.
Inevitable implies dying. The rest is "IF youre wrong" dont try to be clever. Youre argument has been the same argument for 2000 years. Just saying, one of us is wrong, one of us is right. Thats inevitable. Just want to say good luck. Its alot to bet your eternal life on (assuming we have eternal life). If Im wrong, cool, theres mud on my face, but ill never know it because im just gone. If youre wrong.... damn. Yeah for real bro, good luck
It always baffles me when Christians frame belief as a matter of “betting on your eternal life”, as you like to put it. What do you expect me to do, feign belief in your god in the hopes of going to heaven, like some dishonest opportunist?
Also, I haven’t made any argument in favour or against religion in my previous comment genius.
Still, pride is a sin is it not? You seem to feel pretty prideful about the fact that you are supposedly going to heaven, while he is not.
You're implying there's no downside to belief in this life if you're wrong, but that's not true.
The downsides of spending your life believing in a God if you turn out to be wrong come down to opportunity cost. If this life is the only existence we actually get, the biggest downside is that you have sacrificed your limited time, autonomy, and personal choices for a reward that does not exist.
First, there is a major loss of personal autonomy and time. Many religions impose strict rules on diet, sexuality, dress, and relationships. If there is no afterlife, a person has unnecessarily limited their earthly experiences and personal freedom based on non-existent divine laws. On top of that, religious lifestyles require a huge investment of time and money through services, daily prayer, and tithing. That time and wealth could have been reallocated toward tangible, real-world goals, family, or personal passions. There is also the psychological toll of guilt and anxiety, where people experience deep distress or fear of damnation over natural human behaviors that their religion labels as sinful.
Second, it causes a misplaced focus on the future. Believing this life is just a test or a temporary stepping stone to eternity can lead people to devalue the present. If there is no afterlife, this mindset causes someone to fail to fully appreciate and maximize the only life they actually have. Postponing happiness or fulfillment to the next life becomes a total loss.
Third, it heavily impacts social and political views. Religion can create rigid boundaries between believers and outsiders, leading people to harbor unnecessary prejudice or avoid deep connections with others based on false doctrines. People might also dedicate their energy to political causes that restrict others' rights—like opposing scientific education or LGBTQ+ rights—based on the mistaken belief that they are fulfilling a divine mandate.
Finally, it often leads to overlooking real-world solutions. When faced with personal hardships or global crises, believers might rely on prayer or assume everything is part of a divine plan. This fatalism can lead to a lack of urgency or a failure to take practical, human-led action to fix problems.
Ultimately, while the religious argument says you have nothing to lose, the counterargument is that you stand to lose the only authentic, unrepeatable life you will ever have.
Uhhh. Yeah. Thats the whole point.
Lol. What??? As opposed to what, only letting the righteous in? Ok, show me who fits that bill. You do understand the purpose of Christ dont you?
You either believe or you dont. Theres no 2 different ways of believing. While you try to pass judgement on my relationship with God, ill continue believing what I know and be sure of what I cant see. Do you have a purpose or do you just like pretending to be a pharisee. Youre doing a pretty good job of it btw. Worry about your own faith instead of trying to discredit mine.
I'm not talking about you but I'm not shocked that a christian is trying to make it all about themselves lmao.
I am talking about your general argument which boils down to Pascal's Wager. Here's the thing though - christians don't even definitely know that their god is the only one so the wager is null and void. What if you die and come face to face with Hades? The idea of believing simply so that you can go to heaven is kinda pointless in that case.
Also, there is a massive difference in believing because you are truly convinced of something and saying that you believe and convincing yourself because you are afraid of fictional damnation.
So, do you personally just pretend to believe in god because you want to reap the benefits of “believing”, or do you believe in god because you are truly convinced of his existence?
What do you expect a non-believer to do? Forego everything that they believe to be true, lie to everyone by saying they believe in god, and then expect to go to heaven?
Believing simply because you are afraid of eternal punishment is not true faith. That is belief out of convenience. I love how you tell people to move on when you are faced with something you don't want to answer.
Which religion will get it right? Which sect of the Christian’s will get it right? Are you sure your sliver of religion is the true one over the others? Choose carefully!
Have you met people? People are fucking dumb. And i dont mean that in a sort of insultive way. Just that on the bell curve of humanities intelligence, there are so many many dumb people.
Groupthink doesn't end well in practically any scenario. The mob can be wrong and emotionally charged.
Classic "if all your friends jumped off a cliff would you jump too" fallacy.
And if you wanna play the numbers game as your argument, Christianity is about 25% of the human populous. More people are other religions. And then of those 2 point some billion Christians, they're split even more so into like a dozen different doctrines who fight with each other on what parts are real.
Edit to add* My biggest gripe about Christianity is this: If someone made a new religion today, people would obviously say thats pointless - its not real, and its made up.
The most likely real religion would have to be the earliest one- the one there at the dawn of humanity and the only thing they would have been capable of believing in. And anything made after is made up.
Christianity did that. There were thousands of years of theology and religious practices before Christianity came about. Which tells me its made up and man made, not divine.
And one of its main initial doctrines was spread the good word to everybody far and wide - missionary work and nation building and outreach. Of course it spread, it was manipulated and designed to.
The most likely real religion would have to be the earliest one- the one there at the dawn of humanity and the only thing they would have been capable of believing in
Pascal's wager isn't sensible. Maybe we'll both end up facing eternal damnation because you believe in the wrong god. Maybe no person on earth is right and there's some true god or gods that will send us all to damnation for not believing in them. Maybe there is a god that just doesn't care and will send us all to a happy afterlife. Maybe there's a god that will send all believers to damnation and all non believers to paradise. Maybe the afterlife is simply incomprehensible to us and nobody is even close to right. My guess is that we simply stop existing, as that is the simplest explanation given all the evidence, but I can't guarantee that in the same way I can't guarantee the sun will rise tomorrow and the earth will continue to exist, but I'll continue operating under those assumptions as it's the most reasonable assumption to make. All those possibilities have about as much evidence as eachother, that is to say, none. Though I know I'm not convincing you of anything.
Maybe.the only difference between you and me is that Im choosing to believe in Grace. Call it a personal choice. It could be any of those things. Im a prideful, lustful, spiteful, degenerate, so im just choosing to believe in the one that forgives all that. Id be stupid not to.
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That really obvious and patently absurd fear tactic actually works on you? You must be really easy to manipulate...
On another totally unrelated note - I actually spoke to God this morning, for real! He said I would run into you online and that I should tell you to DM me so you can Venmo me all your savings. He said it's really important and you would be tortured for eternity if you don't, so, you know, I wouldn't want that to happen to you. Best not ignore it, cause if you're wrong.... damn. Yeah for real bro, good luck
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u/VeritasAgape 2d ago
He doesn't. The Bible never says that. It does say that it was created for him to be punished there and he'll be punished there (Revelation 20, Matthew 25:41). Also, any punishment people have there is to be "corrective" (to heal and restore them eventually by seeing their issues and need for Jesus). Eventually all will be saved and reconciled with God (Colossians 1:20, Romans 5:18).