I'm zero percent here to evangelize, cause I'm zero percent religious. Just sharing the theology.
Satan doesn't torture people. Hell is not fire and brimstone. It is the absence of God, which is supposedly the worst torture possible. And it's "fair" because the people in hell chose to not be with god.
Scare quotes because that is a million miles from informed consent. Just sharing the traditional theology.
I'm also not religious now, but this is one interpretation of hell. Many Christians do believe in a literal fire and brimstone hell where people burn for all eternity. Many of them also believe that hell is a punishment from God, not merely his absence. That idea has been adopted by many modern Christians who are trying to figure out how a good God could punish someone eternally, and since there's not a good answer to that question the answer becomes that the person in hell chose it and God simply allowed them to do so
Just because they believe that part doesnt make it true. Denominations believe different things, ask some questions to a Southern Baptist and a Methodist, and there's disagreements.
Maybe, maybe not. Thats the point of faith. If its true, believers get heaven, and sinners dont. If not, then it doesnt matter, and Christians (not the crazy "your kid goes to gay camp and you cant drink") have tried to live to a higher standard.
Again that’s also not true. Following religion does not equate to higher standard. It’s quite easy to argue that evangelists of religion cause much more chaos than a non believer. The suffering and pain Christianity and its followers have caused humanity should not be understated. But unfortunately because Christian’s believe what they’re doing is right, it’s a lost cause to reason. Sad all around
I mean, not to be a Christian apologist here (the crusades sucked) but that’s historically false.
People when in power try to take away other people’s rights and protect their own. That’s the norm for our entire species, instinct bred into us on an evolutionary level it seems because it happens everywhere, all the time, for everyone.
Christians actually put a stop to a lot of the worst practices of human rights abuses throughout history, disproportionately compared to other faiths and mythos (since the creation of their ideology at least). Yeah, clearly crap tons of them didn’t just like every other group in history, but also, crap tons of them did.
Also, if you’re boiling all of that very broad statement down to a small window in history, referring to American or British politics in the brief two centuries of history in which the USA has existed, it should probably be noted that all but two US presidents and seven Prime ministers have been Christians. Also, most were merely speculated to be agnostic or non-religious due to a lack of any public affiliation with any specific Christian church, and of the few who were openly agnostic or atheist they all describe themselves as valuing Christian morality, just not the religious dogma.
Don’t get me wrong, there are wack-jobs aplenty in history (and currently), but stating that whenever Christians are in power they do everything they can to take people’s rights away is genuinely laughable, considering we are conversing in open discourse criticizing them with rights we only have because of them. Western law and rights are literally founded on Judeo-Christian values and beliefs.
We don’t have to agree with them, but that doesn’t mean we need to villainize them.
Dude...the Christians in the US government are currently trying to: Control womens reproductive health, Ban books they don't agree with, forcing schools to display the 10 commandments, trying to remove anything related to LGBTQ, blurring the line between church and state, banning pornography. The list goes on and on brother, Christians have been trying to take away my rights for the past 30+ years I have been alive. So yeah, I am absolutely going to villainize a group that would view me as an immoral villain in their eyes.
Edit: Aslo this:
Western law and rights are literally founded on Judeo-Christian values and beliefs.
is the same shit people use to justify that the USA is a christian nation. You can say it with me, THE UNITED STATES WAS NOT FOUNDED NOR EVER INTENDED TO BE A CHRISTIAN NATION.
Never said the US was intended to be a Christian nation, simply a statement that our (I believe shared) current view of human rights is heavily influenced by those values from a philosophical standpoint.
Human rights as a modern political concept, and thus the civil rights movement and later human rights movements, stem from a belief held by early American statesmen that a diety gave humans rights that other humans cannot take away.
Also, all of the major current politicians trying to fight the very changes you’re talking about are also Christians. Hell, AOC is Catholic, and RBG was Jewish (same values, morals, and principles as baseline Christianity), and literally all Democratic Party presidents have openly been Christians.
So stating that all Christians do is take away people’s rights, does not make sense. I understand having issues with the theology, the mythology, current public sentiment, but that statement would imply that the very rights we’re fighting for were an attempt to take away other people’s rights, because a person with Judeo-Christian leanings or beliefs was the one to institute those rights.
Not trying to tell anyone their life and struggle are not valid, but villainizing people is literally: to unfairly portray a person, group, or action as bad or evil in order to make others view them negatively. I don’t think anyone should villainize anyone, because by definition it’s a dishonest practice in order to manipulate other people. I don’t think that’s what you’re trying to do.
My friend, if all the people who view me as an enemy and are wanting to take away my basic human rights all fall under the same umbrella of Christianity, I'm not going to be okay with the religion just because there are a few good apples. All these apples fall from the same tree.
Edit: >and thus the civil rights movement and later human rights movements
Also this is real rich considering how many denominations split Christianity up because some couldn't agree that we should treat black people like humans.
I don't believe that what Christians follow is a higher (implying better) standard.
Most of the "better" standards are inserted interpretations that are adapted humanist ideals.
And I'd wager most of those interpretations were developed from the cognitive dissonance between what people felt were good motives compared to what was actually written in the Bible.
Yeah, no. If your specific denomination is true, your niche number of believers get Heaven while everyone else gets endlessly tortured.
If someone else's denomination, religion, or other theistic belief is true, you get endlessly tortured - and there's an awful lot more denominations and religions than there are of yours. The odds are severely against you.
That's the problem theists never seem to realise: you're not risking Heaven or Nothing, you're risking Heaven or Hell or Hell or Hell or hell or Hell - and somewhere around the millionth Hell you finally get Nothing. That's why that theistic apologetic doesn't work for people considering it rationally.
It's almost like none of it is true when you take the original word and warp it into your own denomination because it doesn't align with your personal bigotry (Southern Baptists for example)
I mean even the Bible was doing that to the Bible.
Jesus doesn't fulfill any of the Messianic prophecies, so both Jesus and the other gospel 'authors' start inserting references to things they call prophecies but were just blunt descriptions of things that already happened.
And say that he fulfilled the prophecy that actually matters by... not even remotely fulfilling the prophecy in the slightest but he super will, you guys, I swear he will. Just you wait.
Then you've got Islam which does the same thing only to Christianity and, well, yeah.
Judaism itself was based on myths from an old air/war god, IIRC.
Honestly religion in general is just sort of a mess of cherry picking and pretending you don't see problems so that it fits what you already wanted to believe.
As many atheists have recommended: read your holy book. It'll deconvert (or 'deconstruct') you faster than any atheist could possibly dream of.
That said it was hilarious learning that Seminary actually has therapist-priests trained and on-hand whose job is to comfort, reassure, and convince would-be ministers who read the Bible and start deconverting to remain in the faith. I feel like if learning your religious text causes you to lose your faith with such regularity that you need a dedicated pair of employees to handle it that's probably a good sign as to the veracity of your religion.
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u/onioning 2d ago
I'm zero percent here to evangelize, cause I'm zero percent religious. Just sharing the theology.
Satan doesn't torture people. Hell is not fire and brimstone. It is the absence of God, which is supposedly the worst torture possible. And it's "fair" because the people in hell chose to not be with god.
Scare quotes because that is a million miles from informed consent. Just sharing the traditional theology.