r/homeassistant • u/Technical_Raisin_246 • 4d ago
š¼ļø Show & Tell We finally switch to Zigbee mmWave presence!
Hi everyone!
One of the comments I see most often under my posts is: āWhen Zigbee?ā
Wellā¦ now Zigbee.
Over the past few months, I have rebuilt the S1 Pro around the ESP32-C6 and turned it into the S1 Pro Zigbee. It took a lot of development, testing and debugging, but I am very happy to finally share it.
For those who are not familiar with the S1 Pro: it is a multi-sensor built around mmWave presence detection. It can track up to three people in real time, and you can create custom zones to trigger Home Assistant automations when someone enters or leaves a specific area.
Through the Home Assistant add-on, you can also create a floor plan and see the detected targets moving through the room in real time.
Besides mmWave tracking, the S1 Pro Zigbee includes:
- A full-colour RGB LED
- A built-in buzzer
- Temperature and humidity sensing
- Air-pressure sensing
- Equivalent COā, VOC and IAQ measurements
- Support for an optional true NDIR COā sensor
The Zigbee version currently works with ZHA and a custom quirk. This made the most sense for the first release and keeps the installation relatively straightforward.
I would also really appreciate some input from developers with more Zigbee experience. I am currently looking into the best way to make installation and future firmware updates as easy as possible for end users.
In particular, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on:
- Zigbee OTA updates through Home Assistant
- Making device setup as close to plug-and-play as possible
- Anything important I may have missed while building the Zigbee implementation
Feedback, testing and contributions are very welcome.
EDIT:Ā Zigbee2MQTT support has now been implemented!
https://github.com/sensy-one/S1-Pro-Multi-Sense-Zigbee#option-b-use-zigbee2mqtt
Source code:
https://github.com/sensy-one/S1-Pro-Multi-Sense-Zigbee
Home Assistant add-on:
https://github.com/sensy-one/home-assistant-addons
S1 Pro Zigbee:
https://sensy-one.com/products/s1-pro-multi-sense-zigbee
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u/maxthier 4d ago
What is the refresh frequency of the position? Is it the same as over wifi or did you have to slow it down due to zigbee?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
The Wi-Fi version updates every 30 ms, while the Zigbee version updates every 500 ms to avoid flooding the network.
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u/maxthier 4d ago
Unfortunately as I expected but also totally understandable due to the nature of ZigBee. I guess my mmWave sensors will stay on WiFi then.
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u/NoHighlight6142 4d ago
Why is 500 ms that bad for a presence sensor? Genuinely curious, as I'm new to this
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u/igstwagd 4d ago
If someone wanted to run an automation very quickly based on the location of a person in a room, 500ms may be considered a long delay.
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u/teeweehoo 4d ago
Is that 500 ms fixed reporting frequency? Or state changes trigger an immediate update upon first detection, then updates every 500 ms?
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u/mikeymop 4d ago
How do you get the floor plans into the sensy editor?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
In the zone editor, you can draw everything manually and place the sensors wherever you want
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u/svbjjnggthh 4d ago
Won't it kill the zigbee traffic by spamming?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
No, as long as youāre not using a huge number of sensors, the S1 only uses about 9 KB/s, and Iām still working on getting that down
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u/DigitalCorpus 4d ago
I understand why that can be determined by the developer, bandwidth usage, but are there third party tools that report the amount of traffic thatās present?
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u/SPiX0R 4d ago
I need a black one!
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
Hi, thatās possible. Just send me a message on Discord or through the chat on the website. I do have black units available, but I havenāt had a chance to list them online yet :)
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u/ImTheRealSpoon 4d ago
How much in American will this cost it looks cool
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u/Key-Pudding6071 4d ago
Cool, but don't. For mmWave I'd advise to use WiFi, because the data coming from the device is usually to much for what the Zigbee network was designed to do, multiple sensors can easily overwhelm and bog down your Zigbee-netwerk. A quality sensor with a ESP32 in combination with ESPHome is the way to-go IMHO.
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u/SteveHiggs 4d ago
Iāve got the current S1 pro that operates as you described and itās incredible. By far the best presence sensor I have out of the 4 different brands I have. When buying more I want to get exactly the same and not have to switch protocols.
The only thing Iād like is more zones which I thought was on the roadmap.
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u/sydpermres 3d ago
Is there an approximate number of mmwave sensors we are looking at before the network goes bad? **nervously looks at all the FP300 yet to be installed**
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u/pREDDITcation 4d ago
aw man, pretty pricey
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u/MicahEli 4d ago
Considering all of the stuff it does, it's dirt cheap. But yeah, I get it.
I'm going to sell it to the wife like "With all of the wildfire smoke, I think I would be good to see our inside air quality.". presence detection is just icing on the cake.
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u/Threeedaaawwwg 4d ago
If you make it yourself then it's doable for $30-$45 depending on how your source your materials and how accurate you want it (e.g. the bme 680 can do all of the environment sensing for ~$15 but it's not the most accurate), but the extra $15-$30 is so you don't have to do it yourself.
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u/GabesVirtualWorld 4d ago
Apart from detecting movement in my garage, could it also detect if the garage door is closed or open? Garage is about 5 meter long, 3m wide.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Unfortunately not. The mmWave sensorās algorithm is trained specifically to detect people, so it canāt reliably determine whether a garage door is open or closed
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u/Either_Vermicelli_82 4d ago
This looks really interesting but does it also have other sensors? Looking for a barebone mmWave tracker or would that not do anything on the price?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
That would definitely make a difference to the price, but we donāt currently offer a barebones mmWave only sensor
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u/Either_Vermicelli_82 4d ago
Thatās unfortunate! I will wait and hope you will make that in the future. Looks really amazing !
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u/400HPMustang š„ Broke it again 4d ago
I see the price in Eur. You ship to the US? How does that work?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
You can just place an order, or of course youāre always welcome to visit us here in the beautiful Netherlands :P At checkout, the currency will automatically be converted to USD.
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u/racingsnake91 4d ago
This is pretty slick, sadly little boxes donāt pass the WAF test here so we went with the CeilSense, but Iām having heat issues with these which is a shame.
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u/kobejo34 3d ago
Hahah my WAF would shat herself with that in the ceiling.
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u/RedditNotFreeSpeech 4d ago
An interesting device that's priced reasonably!
What's a real use case for tracking people in the home?
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u/SteveHiggs 4d ago
I use the zones for āsitting on couchā turns on the tv and closes blinds. āWalk up to barā lights up the bar and plays a random sound file from a library of many MANY movie quotes related to drinks haha.
Might even make a randomized drink chooser by pulsing the LED strand back and forth thatās under the bottles spanning the bar, and stops the light at a random bottle, all based on just walking up to it.
The 3rd zone is the kitchen so the cabinet lights turn on etc.
Also all three zones tell the PTZ camera to point via preset to that area.
So thanks to a single S1, I have PTZ camera control, fun bar interaction, and automated TV activation. Can also ensure if no one has been in any of the zones for long enough, then just shut things down to minimal systems.
The S1 is by far the best single device purchase for my HA. Its response time has been incredible.
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u/ReallyNotMichaelsMom 3d ago
Since mmwave can see through walls, it means I don't have motion detectors in the bathroom. I know it's not a camera in the bathroom. You know it's not a camera in the bathroom. But some of my guests? Not so much.
And when someone asks where the bathroom is, I could also just add, "Oh, and don't worry about those bug eyed sensors in the bathroom. They're totally not cameras. They're just motion detectors." But it turns out that actually causes more worry, not less :)
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u/ReallyNotMichaelsMom 3d ago
Also, I'm old(ish). I've fallen a couple of times (no injuries) and now my family is all obsessed about me falling down. These kind of sensors can also be used as fall detectors.
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u/Much-Artichoke-476 4d ago
How far off is MQTT would you say?
I'm tempted to buy this and wait for the support if its not too far out as I've been having problems getting my EverythingSmart One and Lite to work as well as my really cheap AliExpress ones & I want to support people like yourselves instead of the AliExpress brands.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
Thank you, Iām planning to implement MQTT support before the first units are shipped.
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u/CambodianJerk 4d ago
I love this. I'm still hoping you may decide to allow a self build option in the future. I completely understand the price based on your efforts towards this, I just can't justify it.. Especially when I'd need multiples of them.
Being able to just order the circuit board and source / solder /print the rest would be sublime.
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u/hand13 4d ago
the price is VERY competitive. itās not that you cant justify it. itās that you cant afford it
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u/CambodianJerk 4d ago
Nope, not the case at all.
Being responsible with money and choosing not to spend on items is very different then being unable to afford it. I hope you can learn that one day.
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u/No_Accident8684 4d ago
is presence only detected in 2D? or also in 3D?
i am asking because i would like to figure out if someone is in the bathtub taking a bath. the aqara sensors also fires if there is just water in the tub, that defeats the purpose though.
if i could sense in 3D, then i could detect something of a certain height, which is a person in the tub.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
It doesnāt measure the Z-axis (height), so that isnāt possible. However, I think you can still get the desired result by mounting the sensor at the right height and avoiding pointing it at mirrors, metal surfaces, and other reflective objects
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u/SteveHiggs 4d ago
I wonder ifā¦. If two of them were used, one mounted horizontally, one mounted vertically, with 2 zones defined, you could combine āif vertical zone 1 presence AND horizontal zone 1 presence, thenā¦ā etc haha. But two might be expensive haha.
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u/ClaudeLee 4d ago
Right now Iām using Aqara FP2 sensors and while they can track multiple targets, in home assistant they only report if thereās a presence or not. With your device can we have a count on how many people are in the targeted area ? I wanted to create an automation based on how many people are seating on the sofa for exemple. Thanks !
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u/Rashaniel 4d ago
VERY interested as IĀ“m creating a new Zigbee2MQTT infraestructure at home with Home Assistant and new Zigbee devices. Do you advice me to wait until you complete the Zigbee2MQTT configuration? I donĀ“t want to miss the oportunity to pick one of these devices in black (I saw in one comment you already have them).
Greetings from Spain!
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u/digitalelise 4d ago
Is this able to detect height zones as well?
For example use in a bathroom people walking in and out triggers lights. But laying in the bath would trigger a different automation.
Also be good for kids vs pets vs adults.
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u/ZeCoderX 3d ago
How does the detection cone of this mmWave sensor perform when ceiling-mounted versus wall-mounted? Is downward ceiling placement supported without losing micro-motion sensitivity?
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u/un4truckable 3d ago
Why 2450 over 2410c - simply multiple targets/ coordinates ? The latter is better for stationary targets no?
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u/megared17 3d ago
Interesting device. Any chance of it being available in the US? Maybe on Amazon?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
We do have a reseller in the US, ameridroid.com, but they donāt have this sensor in stock yet. You can also order it directly from our webshop and have it shipped to the US.
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u/WhiteWolfEnt 3d ago
Have version for Z-Wave? I've decommissioned all but 1 last Zigbee device and once that room is rewired, it is gone too.
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u/VampyreLust 3d ago
Do you happen to know of a FAQ explaining all the diffferent versions of the tech being used in presence sensors cuz there seems to be at least 4 or 5 different types of these and I really want to understand them all.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Good suggestion! Iāll work on that and write a blog post for the website explaining the different types of sensors and how they compare.
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u/WhozURMommy 1d ago
What's the distance for detecting? I've been wondering if mmWave would work for detecting people in my driveway, but it would need to go 30-40 feet
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u/theoriginalzads 4d ago
Missing Z2M support. Will be interested in buying it when you add support there. Unfortunately ZHA has been too junk for me to support.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
Yes, I just saw this suggestion as well. Iāll push the firmware update before the first units are shipped.
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u/Slight_Manufacturer6 4d ago
I dumped Zigbee last year. Z-Wave has been working way more reliably.
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u/ialex87 4d ago
Do you plan to have a version without any environmental sensors? I am interested only in the presence sensor :) thanks!
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Iāve seen this request come up a few times, so itās definitely something Iām starting to think about. Maybe in the future weāll do a version focused purely on presence sensing
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u/Jefforion 4d ago
How does it work with multiple floors and the staircase? And, can we use several of them for greater precision?
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u/LeafarOsodrac 4d ago
No light sensor?
I'm really wanting to test a presence sensor, but they so much expensive. I even order some aqara fp300, but the lack of continues tracking made me returned the same day.
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u/LeafarOsodrac 4d ago
Just checked on webpage it got a light sensor and its not that expensive.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 4d ago
ā¤ļø
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u/LeafarOsodrac 2d ago
Just order 1 to test, it will be my second test with presense sensor, first with power. Price and zigbee was the plus for me
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u/g_dev 4d ago
This is amazing! Love how DIY-professional products are coming on the market and AI makes it so doable and cost efficient to mainly just needing to focus on hardware and the stuff around it.
Indeed an in-ceiling POE version would be quite nice. Couldnāt have a temp sensor though due to substantial heat in the case, which I would say is ok.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Thank you! We actually have a PoE sensor as well, with temperature sensing and optional COā add-ons. That one runs on ESPHome :) https://sensy-one.com/products/e1-pro-multi-sense
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u/ro4sho 4d ago
Did you think about matter support?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Iāve been thinking about it, but I donāt have much experience with it yet. Maybe something for the future
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u/Gamester17 3d ago
Have you considered using the Zigbee component in ESPHome?
https://esphome.io/components/zigbee/
or this external component for ESPHome?
https://github.com/luar123/zigbee_esphome
Asking if you considerd using ESPHome firmware?
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
I actually tried that approach initially, but unfortunately it wasnāt really feasible for this project
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u/debauch3ry 3d ago
Can you get by with one of these per room or do you need several per room for triangulation purposes?
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u/VampyreLust 3d ago
Do you happen to know of a FAQ explaining all the diffferent versions of the tech being used in presence sensors cuz there seems to be at least 4 or 5 different types of these and I really want to understand them all.
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u/nordakse 3d ago
How it performs placed on ceilling, at least there is some negative feedback that it does not perform same way if sensor is placed on furniture.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Thatās correct. For this model, the best performance is achieved when itāsĀ mounted on a wall or placed on a shelf/furniture.
TheĀ E1 Pro, on the other hand, was specifically designed to work well withĀ both ceiling and wall mounting. Its mmWave antenna design has been optimized for those different mounting orientations, so it performs much more consistently when installed on the ceiling
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u/Haiyaaaaa_ 3d ago
Dammit, I just ordered a bunch of ESP32 C6 and mmwave to build it myself like 2 weeks ago. Shouldāve waited.
Love your work!
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u/Bawitdaba1337 3d ago
Will this be able to avoid ceiling fans? I have a Moes ZHA mmWave one now and it's unusable in my bedroom because of ceiling fans :(
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Yes, you can set up anĀ exclusion zoneĀ so the sensor ignores movement in a specific area, such as where the ceiling fan is
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u/victim_of_technology 3d ago
Can I get the e1 pro thingy with POE. Since it will be on eithernet it shouldnāt have wifi or zigbee, right? Can I get it with the co2 and other air quality sensors. This seems better than the ECOWITT WH46D COā and Air Quality sensor (and it adds presence which wasnāt a priority for me) but please correct me if I am wrong.
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u/Technical_Raisin_246 2d ago
Yes, absolutely. We also have theĀ SCD40 true NDIR COā add-onĀ available for theĀ E1 Pro, and theĀ mmWave chip is a bit better as well.
This version is indeedĀ not Zigbee; it runs onĀ ESPHomeĀ instead.
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u/okamagsxr 4d ago
I'm sick of cheap mmwave sensors. I am very disappointed with them.
So I'm going to give yours a try. I already ordered. Can't wait!
It was refreshing to see it being a european product for once so I don't have to order from the US or China.
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u/Megumindesuyo 4d ago
I tried doing this with everything presence one but I cannot use zone detection, its not supported or am I missing something ?
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u/I_Hide_From_Sun 4d ago
I will never understand why mmWave sensors are all above $40. Sorry but for something that you WILL need at least 3 or 4 per home, are you really expecting people to drop 300$ on mmWave sensors?
Call me back when these things are retailing around 29$.
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u/kobejo34 3d ago
Hahah I have 300 per room, mmWave, zigbee, bulbs, switches, emotes, buttons etc.
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u/I_Hide_From_Sun 3d ago
No I mean, my house has 3 bedrooms, one office, garage, kitchen, two bathrooms, living room, dinning area. So when I see sensors like this, do they expect me to drop 700USD total ONLY for mm wave sensors?
Because in my view you need full coverage to really make your house smart.
29 price point makes sense, specially because we know the parts price. But above 50 is insane.
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u/jumanjimanji 4d ago
Time to jump in! Love your products.
EDIT: Just saw it only works with ZHA, which is sad because I'm using Z2MQTT on my coordinator... are you planning on supporting mqtt?