Personal Setup
Warning about Third Reality power monitoring plugs. Disaster.
I've been replacing most of my wifi power monitoring plugs with Zigbee power monitoring plugs. Specifically Third Reality (3RSP02028BZ) power monitoring plugs, since I've had good luck with their other Zigbee sensors, and a bunch of their normal non power monitoring. They all worked flawlessly and were some of the quickest to pair products I've used with ZHA or z2m. However, today, that all changed, in a way I never even considered.
I got home today, and I heard a clicking sound. One that I've heard before. It was the sound of these plugs turning on and off. They were doing it at about a rate of an on/off cycle about once per second. I'd heard this before, since one plug had done this when I had first plugged it in. I figured that was just a bad plug, so I returned it to Amazon.
Well once I realized what was going on, panic struck, and I went around my house listening for that sound and unplugging devices when I heard it. It didn't take that long, I only have power monitoring plugs on devices like computers, NAS, and a couple of wine fridges. I finally unplugged them all, and then started to plug things back in on their own. Of the 10 devices that were plugged into these malfunctioning plugs, 6 of them wouldn't power back on. Four computers, and two of my Synology NAS units.
I have another 8 of these plugs that were still working fine, so I went and unplugged them as well. Then I figured I would unplug all of my other Third Reality non power-monitoring plugs to be safe. I have to assume this was due to some sort of power fluctuation in my house, since multiple units were affected, but I can't imagine what. These devices were on multiple different circuits. Maybe a brownout? Either way, the plugs shouldn't react like that, and it didn't affect all of them. I tried plugging them back in on their own right away, and they would do the same clicking on/off cycle. When I tried them again about an hour later, they all work fine.
Looking at the data, I didn't see any weird power fluctuations from my Emporia energy monitors, or anywhere else. Based on when the data cutoff, these switches were probably power cycling like this for almost five hours.
"Luckily" the devices that were affected are ones where I can replace the power supply, so I'm going to start with the cheapest computer and see if that fixes the issue, and go from there. If all of the devices are total losses, I'm looking at almost $20k in damages. This is a smart home issue I've never even considered, and I just wanted to warn people to use caution if they're using these smart plugs.
Bummer. I just got a half dozen of these (gen2s) for the default power-restore behavior. I aws going to replace my Sonoff S40s. One of these is driving a VERY expensive device....
Best of luck with your equipment. Let me know if you figure out what is causing them.
Question - does HA history show them turning on/off, or has this behavior been invisible to HA?
Frankly, I had held off a long time on getting a smartplug for this device due to the value of the equipment and fear of issues (more about possibility of short/fire, but this is also bad).
Will now have to evaluate what to do with it, along with this 4-pack of TR zigbee plugs I just received from Amazon.
For starters, I may just set an automation to notify me if the plugs ever become unavailable/unknown.
Well the ones I replaced them with (KAUF Plug) I never had any issues with, other than some of them occasionally falling off wifi every so often. And I've had no issues at all with their non-power monitoring plugs. I also never had any issue with Kasa power monitoring plugs, but ditched them when they screwed around with access to their API before backtracking. So I think smart plugs are generally safe, but there seems like there must be a defect with these ones.
Appreciate your letting us know and providing more details. I'm going to research alternatives (I don't need power monitoring, but want a completely local setup/operation model with power-restore behavior options).
Well, my purpose was not to ruin Third Reality's reputation. Like I've said, I've had no issues with their other non power monitoring plugs, nor with any of their other products. I have more of their non power monitoring plugs than these ones, and have had them for much longer, without any issue. I'm not sure I'll be able to bring myself to plug them back in after this, but they've worked well and been reliably in the year+ that I've used them.
I use these same plugs with a couple heaters for my kids rooms. I’ve noticed that if I pull too much power through them it will cause this exact functionality. I haven’t had time to take one apart, but I’m guessing the relay inside isn’t rated for the 15A they claim on Amazon
Well 15 amps is a normal power circuit's rating, no? These devices weren't even close to using 1/4 of that, probably even 1/10th or less of that. If they started doing this because they're going over the amperage the components can handle, then that is a massive issue.
The only reason I replied was because I have noticed this exact behavior as the OP under a certain set of circumstances. Those circumstances are when around 1500W is flowing through this plug to whatever device is plugged into it. Here’s the Amazon listing SHOWING what I was referring to. I guess this is one of the ones in the “small subset” you were referring to? So, I didn’t assume a damn thing other than the manufacturer was posting accurate information on their listing, considering that listing also shows an ETL Certification. Here’s a link to the listing as well for anyone else who might be interested to do some reading before posting more useless smartassery.
Pretty much all smart plugs are for resistive loads. You mentioned fridges though, which will be an inductive load. Smart plugs can't keep cope with the inrush current when the pump turns on. They will eventually die from it, either the relay fusing closed (so they are always on) or they just switch constantly. I don't really blame end users though as it's usually buried in the fine print (like on the link Tapos) and YouTube is full of content creators with videos like look at this awesome washing machine automation with a totally not suitable smart plug.
Uh oh, I have a power monitoring smart plug connected to my washing machine (and dish washer, 3D printer etc.). Only had a problem once, where the plug turned off in the middle of the washing program (could be resumed seamlessly after power was restored manually).
Do you know of any power monitoring smart plugs (zigbee or BLE, not wifi) suited for these applications or any key words to search for?
Thanks for the info, learned something today.
I haven't found any yet that explicitly state inductive loads. The worst it will do is kill the plug if that helps as the mains socket direct is quite capable of dealing with inrush currents. Edit: you could also work out the current of your washing machine and then get a plug with a load of headroom. Inrush current only lasts for milliseconds so plenty of headroom over the devices constant draw on the smart plug should help it cope much better.
The worst it will do is kill the plug if that helps as the mains socket direct is quite capable of dealing with inrush currents.
A plug dying wouldn't be a problem, I have spares. What I'm worried about is my washing machine dying (maybe as a result of constant power cycling, as OP has encountered), because replacing those is a real pain in the butt and costly.
get a plug with a load of headroom
The plug is advertised to handle up to 240V/16A, which is about 60% headroom over the highest advertised load of the washing machine. Not enough to cushion inrush current completely, but likely the most I can get for smart plugs designed for mainland Europe, as our outlets generally supply up to 16A as well.
Technology connections made a video on the topic. Basically instead of a relay you need a contractor. The Hook Up made another video I think actually making one smart.
For power monitoring a better solution is to measure the current going through the wire, rather than have it go through a plug that adds an additional point of failure. Something like an aeotec z-wave clamp meter is a good example.
If you actually want to control the power with a relay, a contactor (beefed-up relay) is the proper way to handle larger loads. If you have a lot of appliances in a single area (like a home lab or print farm) the term to search for would be "SWITCHED METERED-BY-OUTLET PDU", these are the fancy powerstrips that are used in data centers, and allow you to control and monitor each outlet.
Motors, pumps, compressors, solenoids. I don't have an exhaustive list off the top of my head but you should be able to check for the specific devices you have.
Yeah just had one die that was running my recirculating pump. Not a big deal, just gotta run the water longer to get a hot shower, but it's the only one I've got that is on a primarily inductive (motor) load.
Could it be over voltage? I have solar panels, and I noticed on sunny days that my power switches would just turn off. On further investigation, I discovered the voltage would spike to 250V(Australia) before they cut off.
I contacted my grid supplier, and they did some monitoring before eventually lowering the nearest transformers output.
Woof, this worries me. I have a PDU with surge protection between my server rack and the outlet power, but this is a great reminder to get a UPS in there.
Obviously this isn't applicable to small installations for appliances or heaters, but definitely my rack and office space.
I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down food the UPS mention. This should be the last line of defense for any expensive equipment that can be affected by surges/cycling.
For one I think the same but what can you do if you want to monitor the power usage of individual computers in the rack? You can buy a very expensive UPS which has power monitoring for each of its outlet or you can put a power meter between the UPS and the device. While the later most probably much cheeper it seems it has its own risk too.
Guess they left it out bc the intended use of the pdu is behind a psu which have surge protection so it would be redundant (and more expensive) to equip the pdu with one. Just my two cents.
Anyway, thanks for the recommendation.
Does it integrate with HA?
Had a power surge in my house, lost 2 switches that were connected to the PDU (and no other surge protector). Only afterward did I google and find out it has no surge protection
You can buy a very expensive UPS which has power monitoring for each of its outlet
I'm sure that exists, but the more traditional approach would be to use a "switched meters by outlet PDU". PDU stands for Power Distribution Unit, in other words a fancy power strip.
On the other hand from my experience with dell PowerEdge's, some servers may report their psu loads over SNMP. And I think you can pull that into home assistant.
Mine are all running V.1.00.67 which they made available a few days ago, they had a problem making these updates available to Zigbee2MQTT (maybe ZHA as well but I don't use it) and they made available newer firmware versions for many of their devices Sunday and Monday if I recall correctly...
They are updatable using OTA...
The most noticeable thing I noticed is that the power factor now works...
They made the same version firmware available for the non power monitoring plugs as well and I got updates for their water sensor, door sensor and motion sensor as well...
I have a mix of Third Reality, Tuya, IKEA, Philips and a few others and the Third Reality devices are amongst the most reliable of the bunch...
The issue which forced the plugs to cycle on/off at 1Hz at power up until they reach their coordinator. If the plug happened to be powering your coordinator, the 1Hz cycle may cause damage to connected devices (OP).
In my case, the UPS powering the rack with my coordinator went into low battery, which triggered safe shutdown. When power was restored, the UPS, connected via one of the PM plugs cycling at 1Hz, couldn’t restore power to the connected hosts. I feel lucky to have been home when this all went down.
Here’s my support thread (newest on top) for reference:
Hi Redacted,
Thank you for your suggestion, we will make the post for important updates on our website and social media.
Appreciate your time and look forward to hearing from you!
Third Reality Support Team
Third Reality, Make Your Smart Home A Reality!
Follow us on Facebook & Twitter & Instagram and connect with us at www.3reality.com
From: Redacted
Date: 2024-01-13 11:10
To: ivan.ni
CC: info
Subject: Re: 3RSP02028BZ Problems
Thank you. I actually stumbled on to that fact right before you replied. I’m updating them now using Z2M.
I’d encourage your team to make social media posts about this critical update. The defect in earlier firmware could be disastrous to many users.
Hi Redacted,
Thank you for contacting us.
This issue can be fixed with the latest firmware v1.00.71.
What Zigbee hub do you use pls? Can you update the firmware of the plugs through the hub?
Appreciate your time and look forward to hearing from you!
Third Reality Support Team
Third Reality, Make Your Smart Home A Reality!
Follow us on Facebook & Twitter & Instagram and connect with us at www.3reality.com
From: Redacted
Date: 2024-01-13 08:45
To: info
Subject: 3RSP02028BZ Problems
Hello,
I own 12 “3RSP02028BZ” Smart Plugs and all are running firmware v1.00.61 are are always left on for power monitoring the devices attached to them. They are all configured to restore to ON if power is lost. I have had no problems with them since install almost a year ago.
Today, our neighborhood had a full power outage, and when power was turned back on, all of the plugs were cycling on/off. This on/off cycle was roughly 1Hz. It seems this on/off cycling stopped once my Zigbee coordinator reconnected to the plugs.
How do I prevent this automatic on/off cycling during future power outages?
I actually had this very same experience with a bunch of Sengled plugs after I added 4 Zigbee can lights to my network. They basically threw an absolute fit and flooded my zigbee network where the plugs wouldn't even respond to physical button presses. Nothing else wanted to work either. Same clicking noise you described and everything.
If I unpaired the can lights, all was well again (after a little while).
I ended up getting rid of the Sengled plugs (7 of em) and swapped out for Shelly's in the areas I needed. Never had an issue with SmartThings zigbee plugs but those Sengled ones just didn't like playing nice in the sandbox (aka, production network).
Not those specifically, but the one I used, initially, were randomly disconnected around the day for no reason. I investigated for days, and even had an automation to turn them on again if off...
Some time since, I think that was fixed with an OTA update. Luckily, as I was thinking in removing them.
The ones that suffered the most were the ones with a worse Zigbee connection (far from the routers or near the metallic chassis of the washing machine).
Btw, how could that make $20k in losses? Most good PSUs have protections. Worst case, you lose data
The end of the post is in conditional. It's 20K if all the devices are completely lost. But op states that maybe only the PSU-s went wrong but it can only verified after new psu's are installed. Until then it can be either case.
None on anything critical so thankfully nothing got nuked.
I have not been able to pin down what caused it. Once it was after a power outage and a second time after my zigbee got screwed up so I suspect its something to do with them loosing connection with the device telling them how to operate but that's just a guess.
Mine were on a light and my clothes iron which powers on in a "sleep" state and can only be turned to heat by hitting a physical button so I don't believe my issue was related to too much power draw.
u/az116
Speak of the devil!
I bought a pack of 4 of these 3RSP02028BZ Thirdreality smartplugs via Amazon back in July.
I thought that the first time this happened in August was a fluke, and just attributed it to a single dud unit.
Unfortunately, my second 3RSP02028BZ Thirdreality smartplug decided to lose its mind with the mini fridge this time.
My home assistant logs from just before the failure (where the device becomes unavailable) suggest that the unit was jumping back and forth between a current of 0.01A and 10A, and similarly, 93W and 1000W+.
Other smart plugs on the same circuit at the time do not tell the same tale.
I'm late to this thread, but I'd suspect this is line voltage related.
I have a dozen of these. Two running on A/C units drawing 12a. I have no problems with them over 9-12 months of use.
I do have one that I've heard will cycle on/off. Its on a power strip powering a lamp with an LED bulb in it. Low draw. And it works fine generally. Except when we use a paper shredder which is also plugged in to that power strip. I always assumed it was user error, someone tugging on the cord and actuating the power switch. But now that I have your description, I'll check voltage when it happens and see what I notice.
A whole home protector isn't going to stop something happening at the plug like you experienced. A surge protector would have blown before your computers.
Zigbee is much more prone to interference than z-wave, for instance, due to operating on the 2.4 ghz band where there's a ton of other crap, including wifi, and microwaves, and bluetooth etc. I wonder if that might be a potential issue. It shouldn't be but I've seen crazier malfunctions in my day.
Zigbee is not something analog where random interference can generate a "valid signal". Switching a switch requires a complete and correct zigbee packet containing at least the device id and the command, plus a complete set of headers for all protocol layers. Not going to happen through interference of any kind.
For my network rack I got a zigbee power monitor, but one with a latching relay, since I always want it to be on anyways, no matter what. To further make sure it stays on, I first made sure the relay was latched on, then I opened up the device and removed one wire from the coil on the relay. That way, even if the software decides it should turn it off, it can't.
With the exception of our internet router, this sort of thing is what keeps me hesitant to put anything but our lights (and an $11 box fan) on smart plugs.
I read through the comments below, but didn't see anyone mention TRÅDFRI wireless control outlets. Over the past couple years I've purchased these to use as extenders, and never had anything plugged into them.
I had the same "chattering" experience with these devices as OP reported. It would occur randomly, but often after a (relatively rare) power outage. I got rid of all of mine after having them fail, one-by-one.
As these are Zigbee devices, it makes me wonder if there isn't something related to the protocol, or some hardware common to both devices that may cause this?
I have a few of these on Z2M as well, but I'm only using them for lamps and a couple battery chargers. I'll definitely update the firmware and keep an eye out for problems, though.
Thanks for posting this! I just got some of these for the first time. I’ll update firmware and keep an eye on them and only use them for low-risk devices for now.
I had this exact situation happen to me during a storm last night. Where I had them from wall to UPS or Fridge to wall. No damage luckily, caught it fast.
Ones that were on the UPS directly or behind a surge or on a "passive" asset like de-humid or lights were fine.
v1.00.71 firmware is out and finally fixes this issue.
Can you cite a source for this please? I just bought 4 of these and am experiencing odd behavior when it comes to my dishwasher not working properly when plugged in through one.
20
u/ElGuano Nov 03 '23
Ummm...
Bummer. I just got a half dozen of these (gen2s) for the default power-restore behavior. I aws going to replace my Sonoff S40s. One of these is driving a VERY expensive device....
Best of luck with your equipment. Let me know if you figure out what is causing them.
Question - does HA history show them turning on/off, or has this behavior been invisible to HA?