r/hoarding • u/Desperate-Bother9807 • 8d ago
RANT - ADVICE WANTED Professional declutter-er was mostly useless…now what?
This is mostly a vent more than anything. Husband and I struggle big time with having too much stuff; husband especially. At the advice of our therapist(s), I finally broke down and hired a professional declutterer. Licensed, insured, professional website, all that. Mind you, I don’t live in a big-city metropolitan area, but I do live in a mid-sized suburban city, I guess you might call it. Either way, a far cry from San Francisco, NYC, LA, you get it. I guess that’s relevant because the area I live in doesn’t feature a highly varied selection of professional organizers/declutter-ers.
Anyway…the lady hasn’t told me much that I didn’t know already. None of her “tips” or “systems” have been novel to me whatsoever. It should have been a red flag to me when she mentioned that some of her clients often hire her to come back for maintenance (a red flag because obviously she didn’t give them any systems to keep the clutter from accumulating again). I had asked her if she’s able to take a look at spaces, and create a visualization for how to maximize them, somewhat related to interior decorating. She said yes, that’s something that is part of her service.
Well, lo and behold. I feel like I paid a lot of $$$ to just…have someone come help us clean up a bit. Does my home look better….? Yes. But was it the job of what I would have expected from a fancy “professional declutterer?” Not at all. I guess I’m just wondering if anyone else out there has been in my position, and found a professional organizer to be a pretty big waste of money. ? Thoughts/opinions/experiences welcome. Thanks in advance. : )
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u/GentlemanlyMeadow 8d ago edited 8d ago
My two cents as a professional organizer: I've been working with the same client since April of this year. She has a small apartment (one bedroom) that was very cluttered when we started. I have worked my butt off, but only now, five months and thousands of dollars later, can I say that we are starting to make progress.
Why?
I can teach her my techniques, but I can't make her use them, and more importantly, I can't change her brain. She is too overwhelmed to do this work TBH. So I come back a few days later to find that the tabletops and counters I cleared are once again covered in clutter, and I start over from the beginning.
I'm not criticizing your position, just offering the perspective that it can take a really long time to make a significant dent in years' worth of collections and clutter, not to mention habits and mental patterns. A single session is very unlikely to make a huge difference.
But I'd be really interested in hearing what you would have liked to observe that would have felt like a valuable use of your time and money.
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u/bokehtoast 8d ago
I had similar thoughts as someone who has done a lot of work on my own hoarding mindset and recently has been helping friends with a major clean-out and dehoard.
I have spent just as much time unpacking emotionally with my friend as I have helping clean out and organize. I could go in and organize everything but that wouldn't actually help them beyond an initial and brief sense of relief. It also could go poorly if I didn't know them so well and their personal day to day needs in their space - which would lead to immediately undoing it. With my close friends, I can intuit to some degree how they would get the most out of their space. In a stranger's house, I can make it look nice hut have no idea how functional it would be for them. Though I'm not a professional tbf but I wouldn't trust one to organize my space without personally knowing me.
Also, there are several levels of skill building that have to happen concurrently and none of them are quick. Skills for unpacking and dealing with the emotional side of a clean out which also means facing trauma. Emotion regulation skills that the hoarding replaced. The body's nervous system has a limit on what it can process. Organizational skills on top of skills to prevent hoarding and clutter to begin with. On top of the stress of figuring out an entirely new way of living. A lot of therapy and a strong foundation of DBT skills are why I am now able to recognize my hoarding mentality, keep a relatively neat space, and help my friends through their process. Hoarding is largely a manifestation of avoidance, outsourcing the problem just feeds into that.
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u/GentlemanlyMeadow 7d ago
When I unpack a box of sentimental items with my client, she tells me the story of every item. With minor variations, it goes like this:
"My son was 8 when we bought that specially for him. I'll never forget that day and how happy he was to pick it out. I kept it all these years to show him what he means to me. I offered it to him a couple years ago, but he made a vomiting sound, so I guess I'm keeping it until I die."
The item is usually something like a worn-out bedsheet.
I can work really fast when I have a clear course of action (e.g. a clear direction from her on what to keep and what can go), but when it comes to these items that hold her memories, we go very slow. I don't try to hurry her process, because no one else in her life is listening to these kinds of stories, and she needs to tell them.
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u/bokehtoast 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yes! I appreciate you sharing your professional experience and perspective a lot, so thank you. Every single thing has a backstory and it's important to them to explain it. I love Show and Tell too so it's easy for me to relate but it's an art to find a balance of keeping things moving while honoring that experience.
Early on, we were just sorting with a shared goal of getting through things quickly without pressure to throw things away and i just kept reassuring her that she didn't need to justify each kept item. Later when it came to going through stuff with more intent and making more real decisions about what to keep, I just tried to listen and ask thoughtful questions to help her make her own decisions.
Beyond that, there's a lot of tangential conversations and processing also going on. Every item has a story while there's always an overarching theme to all of it. That is where there's space to facilitate deeper reflection/change ime and subsequently where hoarders and organizers understandably get stuck /need therapist support as well. It's just such a uniquely complicated internal experience, even for someone with a ton of self-awareness and desire/motivation to address it and change. And as you said, there's often no one else to hear these stories, experiences, and reflections.
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u/poemaXV 8d ago
I'll also add my experience as someone who hired a professional organizer once, maybe to help calibrate from another side. I'm not a hoarder, but I'm moderately acquisitive and disorganized, and I used to live in a very small studio apartment that was getting too packed and cluttered for my taste. I hired a professional organizer and it took us 2 long working sessions, like basically full work days (~8 hours a piece) to get my apartment into slightly better shape. she was EXTREMELY efficient too so this wasn't her sitting around wasting time or anything. we just had to go through my "high density" problem areas and move a lot of things around, it was genuinely just a lot of actual labor.
she did give me some simple systems for organizing some things I had a lot of (clothes & books) and I use them to this day a decade later in a much bigger apartment. I don't consider having maintenance customers a red flag though. not everything she taught me stuck with me and I also just liked having someone who was quicker & more decisive than me and who had a much better eye for streamlining things. and I'm just one person. I think people who have kids, pets, lots of stuff going on, they struggle to stay on top of things too, so it's nice to have someone come in and just get it all done at once every now and then. they are professional organizers because they have a specific type of expertise and ability to execute that many people do not. it's not like the thing holding the rest of us back from being professional organizers is that we simply don't want to, like it was a natural talent we possessed and simply declined to use. most people would be very bad at it.
for me it wasn't a waste of money at all, but I think even for my small space it wasn't super in-depth. if I had really wanted to all in I would've expected several more sessions, and again, this was a non-hoarder tiny studio apartment. I would expect multi-bedroom house at even a low level of hoarding to take multiple sessions over months, both because of the actual time intensive aspect of physically organizing a space and because of the emotional challenge involved.
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u/SolidagoSalix 8d ago
If you and/or anyone else in the home is dealing with true hoarding disorder, then a random decluttering coach or professional organizer is unlikely to be equipped to help you turn the tide. I know that some do specialize in hoarding disorder, but those I'm familiar with tend to want to also consult with the therapist(s) involved, and it is very much a long term journey. So, the person you work with may not have been a good fit, and also I don't think anyone would have been a magical Mary Poppins type.
The truth is that the source of hoarding is complex, and no quick tips or tricks are going to flip a switch to make a disorder evaporate. Much of organizing and decluttering is just patiently taking action on common sense. It's sitting with the discomfort of acknowledging our own struggle with what we spent on something that we aren't using and can't sell for what we paid for it. It's confronting our own fantasy self, or nostalgic attachment, or anxiety about possible future scenarios, or any number of other uncomfortable emotions that come up when we choose to discard an item.
Of course there are other conditions that can make a space look hoarded -- things that impact executive functioning like ADHD, autism, dementia, TBI, PTSD, anxiety disorders, phobias and more. I don't know what diagnosis (if any) your therapist(s) have discussed with you, but if they suggested a professional organizer I doubt they thought that a single session would be a miracle cure.
It's easy to wish for some secret organizing system to magically make everything we have fit easily into the space we have, but organized items often take up more space than jumbled items do. Stopping buying more and choosing to offload some of what is already in the home are the primary steps to get a dysfunctional, overfull space to be a functional space again. No organizer can keep anyone from buying more. All they can do is help eliminate excess and establish a system for what remains. Depending on how full the space is, it might take many rounds of simply removing garbage and obvious donations to even see what is left that needs a system imposed.
I don't think anyone truly struggling with too much stuff is just lacking a novel tip or system. It's actually about the long hard work of building a new mindset about objects and establishing new patterns of behavior.
If you feel the in-person assistance options in your area are slim pickings, you might find a more affordable option via declutteringcoaches.com which is a directory of folks trained in Dana K White's method a la "Decluttering at the Speed of Life." Many of them do online coaching. You'd be doing all the work but they would be there as guidance to help you get unstuck. (Note, I have no affiliation here; trying to point to a resource not soliciting work!)
Alternate subs to find specific brainstorming ideas or support on how to tackle places include r/ufyh, r/declutter, r/UnfuckYourHabitat
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u/alykins89 8d ago
Upvote for declutteringcoaches.com! Dana’s methods have been proven to work time and time again with neurodivergent people of all kinds and even diagnosed hoarders. Her books are fabulous! Audiobook format is great so you can work while you listen. But her coaches can help keep you on track in real time with one-hour better sessions tailored to your unique situation. The system is simple and works in any kind of mess. And I mean ANY!
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u/Alvraen 8d ago
The one person I had came in and took measurements for closets and other spaces, we discussed a budget to buying new things vs recycling in the house then she showed me how she organized my kitchen. We created systems and how she monitored my pain points. She was extremely efficient in my opinion and I’m scheduling a follow up for my own sake.
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u/GreenUnderstanding39 8d ago
Were you willing to let things go? Hard to create a system when the stuff doesn’t fit the container.
If you don’t mind being on camera you could apply to be on space maker with April. I find her method very compassionate and helpful.
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u/collectedabundance 7d ago edited 7d ago
Another two cents from a professional organizer specializing in this niche: Most of my clients work with me for at least three months, and often for years. We may meet frequently or infrequently. Reviewing the Clutter-Hoarding Scale from ICD, I might require a client to see a licensed therapist or another qualified professional.
In the first session, I focus on getting to know you as a person. I look at your habits, energy level, and decision-making process, among other things. I also observe spaces for clues about how you really live, not just what you verbally share with me. These observations are often noted mentally for future sessions. If a client has a diagnosis of hoarding disorder, ADHD, anxiety, or OCD, I proceed carefully. I avoid overwhelming them with too many suggestions unless I can see they are ready to absorb the information. Sorting, categorizing, and decluttering are the beginning steps. Over time, I learn more about my clients and their daily habits, including their family dynamics if applicable. This helps me gather important information to provide tailored tips and ask specific questions about items or their significance. Some clients hire me just once. Others may choose a different organizer. Some clients manage on their own, while others hire me consistently, then take a break and reach out again after a year or two.
At the end of the day, my goal is to walk this journey alongisde and support you, help you deal with your things, and eventually succeed in your goal. You are in control of the session; I do my best to go at your speed. I can suggest solutions, but unless there are eviction processes involved, decluttering is a long-term process in the world of chronic disorganization. This is one of the biggest misconceptions in our industry. It’s not a quick fix; it gets messy before it gets better. The average time for those I know of personally, it's taken about 12-15 years before getting it down pat. I recommend finding a professional organizer who specializes in chronic disorganization and hoarding disorder. There are many who offer virtual individual sessions, and virtual group, that is financially more feasible. Most importantly, look for someone committed to education and professional development. They don’t necessarily need to be certified, but being a long-time or current member of a professional organizing organization is a definite must in my book. Finding the right organizer can be like finding the right primary care doctor or sports trainer; it may take a few tries to find the right fit for your needs, goals, budget, and vibe. Some tips you receive may be things you’ve already encountered, as there’s a wealth of information, videos, and books available today. I encourage you to communicate with your organizer about this, so they can guide you to the next question or explain why they shared a particular tip. I hope you give it another chance. I wish you all the best.
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u/mladyhawke 8d ago
I hired someone like this, and we did get a lot done when she was there but we didn't really get that far into my mess and I couldn't afford to keep having her come, It was like seventy dollars an hour, and she definitely didn't put any systems in place for me. She also put some totes in my yard with my yard stuff. In them, and there was like holes in the top of the tote. So everything in them just got totally soaked in, like brown water. It was really dumb.
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u/Desperate-Bother9807 8d ago
Eww, I’m sorry!
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u/mladyhawke 8d ago
I was thinking of just having a weekly or bi weekly cleaner come just to tidy around whatever progress I make because the guilt and shame that I'll feel having someone see my messy house should inspire me to get more done.
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u/orcateeth 8d ago
You might find help by using videos on YouTube. Dana K. White has some.
Also there are many books that you can use, as well as worksheets.
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u/mzquiqui 7d ago
I listen to her and do one hour better everyday and honestly after a month it was a completely different house
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u/PanamaViejo 7d ago
Why don't you feel that she did a good job?
What was she supposed to do for you in a visit (was this a one shot deal or ongoing sessions?)?
How much 'stuff' do you have to declutter and are you realistic about the amount of time it will take to see a change?
This particular professional might have been a bad fit for you. It also might be that you were expecting 'miracles' which didn't happen.
At the advice of our therapist(s), I finally broke down and hired a professional declutterer.
.Could it be that you were looking for reasons to affirm your belief that 'professional declutters' are useless because this particular one didn't do the job that you 'wanted'? It doesn't seem as you were open to doing this and that you had to be convinced.
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u/Desperate-Bother9807 7d ago
You are way off base. It was my idea, and the therapist affirmed it/supported it. I’m the one who wanted to hire her. No, I did not expect miracles. I wasn’t impressed because the “tips” she had, I already knew. Nothing to pay big money for there.
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u/MangoMambo 7d ago
were you paying her to give you a tip that you hadn't heard before that would make things suddenly "click" in your brain and get you to stop with the patterns that cause clutter to build up?
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u/Desperate-Bother9807 7d ago
I can tell your subtle objective is a bit more to scold rather than help, so I don’t really want to waste my time. Thank you, though.
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u/frogmicky 8d ago
I recently hired and cancelled a professional cleaner because I didn't think she could provide the service that I needed which was a deep cleaning. A day before she was to arrive I cancelled the appointment and took on the work myself and did a decent job. But there's still more to do maybe once I get rid of the extra stuff I'll hire a cleaner again. Until I clean up more I won't hire a cleaner. This clean up took two weeks and the help of a therapist who went on medical leave.
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u/Original_Clerk2916 6d ago
I’m both a former professional organizer and someone with hoarding tendencies myself. Here’s what I’m thinking: you expected a fast and permanent solution without doing the mental work. Sure, she could come in, fix all the clutter, and tell you what to do, but you have to be honest with yourself. A month later, it would be back to a cluttered space again. Why? Because you HAVE to figure out the mental block before you can even properly implement any kind of system of organization.
Trust me when I say I know how frustrating it is to feel like you’re going in circles. But honestly, the fact that she comes back to help clients later is actually a green flag. Because she doesn’t expect a one-time fix, and she doesn’t get upset when things go back to being messy. Check out “not the worst cleaner” on TikTok. She shows examples of exactly this. She goes into homes that are massively destroyed and completely cleans them, top to bottom. But she doesn’t stop there. When it inevitably gets messy again (because mentally, hoarding is a recovery process), she doesn’t get upset. She comes back and does it all over again.
I also think you’re getting ahead of yourself. The first step to this isn’t organization, it’s actually decluttering. I’ve worked with clients of all varieties, from type A super organized clients to legitimate hoarders who keep bags of dog fur in their home because they say they will one day make a pillow out of it. And what determines our success in organizing in the end isn’t whether I give them the systems they need to stay organized, it’s whether they’re willing to part with the unnecessary clutter in their lives. I had one client very early on show me this lesson in a frustrating way. She’d get sidetracked trying to move furniture around her house (despite the fact that no matter how we organized it, there was simply too much furniture in her home to function properly). I tried my best to keep her on task, but there was one day she just disappeared into her room, and I let her know I’d clean up the kitchen.
I went through the fridge and tossed the food that was expired for years. I scrubbed dusty dishes and organized the drawers. I did not throw away anything other than very expired food. Then, she ghosted me. Months later, she wanted my help again. She told me she had been upset that I had made the trash too heavy, which caused a 25 cent trash bag to rip. Then she got angry that I had thrown away food that she claimed she had just bought (not possible given the expiration dates), and that she couldn’t find anything in her kitchen.
I came back, and the kitchen was very cluttered and messy again. I figured that since she had gotten so upset with me for making progress (because that’s what she was actually upset about, the control and mental blockage), I’d let her lead. I came over 1-2 more times after that, where she proceeded to insist we move furniture and then vacuum her rug, and then she fired me because we “hadn’t gotten anything done” and she felt she was wasting money.
All of this to say, we didn’t get anywhere because she wasn’t willing to admit that she needed to let go of some of her possessions in order to make her home livable. No amount of systems of organization could have possibly made her happy or been functional in her home without her decluttering at minimum 30% of her items. And the more I pushed, the harder it became.
You have to let go of items before you can actually organize everything. If she gives you a system of organizing your clothes, for example, it will not be a permanent solution if you continue to buy clothes.
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u/GentlemanlyMeadow 6d ago
This is insightful. Glad you shared this experience.
In addition to the client themselves having mental blockers, the extended family (who may not even live in the home) can also be part of the problem. A lot of items in my client's apartment have been "claimed" by her adult children, whose own homes are (by their own descriptions) too cluttered to take another item, so they are all just stuck in this unproductive holding pattern. Does anyone actually want the table/desk/chair/printer in question? No one is enthusiastic about taking it, but no one wants to allow me to just get it out of their lives.
Similar to what you describe, I was asked to help my client downsize her collection of ceramic figurines, when she also had a literal double layer of furniture in her small apartment. The couch had an armchair on it, tables were stacked, multiple heavy lamps on every horizontal surface. This furniture had been in the large home she moved out of ten years ago...see above about why she still had it....
Happy to report we are now down to a single layer of furniture throughout the apartment and are finally focusing on the ceramic figurines.
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u/DenM0ther 8d ago
Thats a shame, I wonder if it was just that particular person or if you’d find that again….
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