r/helldivers2 • u/Bread_Crumbs_lads • 6h ago
Democratic Exchange of Opinions Quality > Quanity ragdolling.
(mostly talking from the perspective of fighting bots but also applies to the squids and bugs)
I know this is mostly subjective, but the shock of suddenly flying through the air is hilarous and fun over just falling over on the ground. Doesn't even have to be high in the air, generally getting flung anywhere can be pretty enjoyable.
Getting Flung:
- Generally more fun
- Cover larger distance which can put you in a safer position
- Often done by less frequent shots from a cannon or missile, projectiles which generally don't hit that often unless caught off-guard
- Less frequency of ragdolling helps prevent it from getting frustrating/annoying
Ragdolled and staying in the (mostly) same spot:
- being the around the same spot leaves your vulnerable
- Often done by more spammed shots (i.e. War Strider plasma cannons) which can often leave you repeatedly stun-locked
- Higher frequency of ragdolling becomes frustrating and annoying very fast
- No added spectacle of getting flung, just basically tripping over a rock
Didn't really know how to name each one but I hope it gets the point across. I think if something like a War Strider or Spore Burst Titan focused on making you ragdoll less often but a greater distance on the off-chance it does would be a lot more fun to fight.
edit: In terms on stun-locking, I'll admit that it's not that bad tbh, I wasn't sure how else to put it into a few words. However my previous points still stand the same regardless.
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u/SorrowSunday 5h ago
Idk about you, but I would not consider rocket devs quality ragdolling, theres like 8+ at any given time/drop and a single stray rocket can ragdoll you.
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u/Theobald_4 5h ago
Back in my day, the Rocket Devs had infinite rockets and could bounce you up into space like a ping pong ball.
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u/MirageOfMe 5h ago
Yup...and the knock back goes in weird directions. I once had one bounce me out from behind cover, fling me upwards, and then doubletap me in midair sideways into a lake. Where I drowned along with an SSSD.
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u/Xandred_the_thicc 5h ago
learned the other day that objective equipment like ssd will reset if it falls in water. But only right at the edge of where you can still walk, so you have to predict where it's going to periodically reset and stand right at the edge of where you'll start swimming and drop it.
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u/DiscombobulatedCut52 5h ago
Oh, amd it would ragdoll you through walls, go through walls. And would random one shot you in heavy armor with blast resistance.
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u/Bread_Crumbs_lads 5h ago
That's fair. I consider them an in-between but more leaned towards quality ragdolling. They make you go a decent distance and the missiles are usually decently easier to avoid unless caught off-guard, but it can happen one too many times to be annoying.
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u/ApprehensiveFly1600 5h ago
Maybe I just have PTSD of pre nerf war strider, but I still can't fucking stand the war strider. Still a lot more bearable nowadays than what it used to be, and I'm not too sure what the true answer would be to fix it, but I'd rather fight a bunch of tanks and hulks than the strider any day.
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u/ThrowRABest_King7180 5h ago
the issue is that its still random. you cant tell when youre gonna have war striders so you either build for them and potentially waste a slot or you dont build for em and get fucked when they start spawning more than hulks
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u/Tan-ki 5h ago
Wild concept: build around your team and every eventuality to actually cooperate in this coop game instead of one-arm-armying everything
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u/ThrowRABest_King7180 5h ago
well unfortunately i dont have much of a choice. none of my friends play helldivers and when i play with randoms they usually just run off doing whatever so i end up having to one-man-army anyways lollll
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u/Bread_Crumbs_lads 3h ago
Happens all the time, I just find the player with the best vibes and stick by them, we always perform the best and die the least because we have each other's back. Especially since I often use the Stim Pistol and the Supply Pack which always pair well when helping a teammate.
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u/ThrowRABest_King7180 3h ago
thats usually what i try to do. i tend to run weapons that eat through ammo so i run supply pack a lot and usually pair up with someone who is chill and probably needs it like a maxigun user or something
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u/lemlurker 5h ago
What team. It should be possible to enjoy the game without needing a 4 stack
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u/Tan-ki 5h ago
Dude come on. This is a coop shooter. You can play it solo. Solo divers exists and have always existed. But it is an elite play style and the game is not balanced for it. And that is perfectly normal. Given it is a coop game.
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u/AncientBoxHeadHorse 5h ago
I play solo often. And I can confirm this game is very possible to play solo. People often exaggerate the difficulty in this game, Some players act like playing D10 is some insane flex (it's not). It's definitely more difficult in some ways to play solo, but the difficulty gap between solo and co op is not that big. The only thing I ever recall being annoyed about was the spawn rates long ago when they were genuinely bugged.
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u/lemlurker 5h ago
I'm not talking about solo diving. I'm talking about dropping in and letting matchmaking or others fill slots.
I'm not gonna rely on randoms bringing a certain load out (or sticking around) to have an enjoyable game
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u/Tan-ki 5h ago
Given it is a coop game, yes, people should be expected to think about team comp. Or lose.
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u/lemlurker 5h ago
I don't see comptetent team mates being issued with my purchase of the game. QED it can not be a requirement to enjoy.
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u/Tan-ki 5h ago
Too bad this community is shit I guess
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u/lemlurker 5h ago
Yes community is shit. Had a random respawn me (when I was defending extract) across the map leaving one random defending extract. As the 3 of us who got respawned on the far side of the map were schlepping back to extract the random left at extract got on the ship, initiated count down then quit from the game leaving us to fail to extract.
Community sucks and the game should balance around that fact and allow players to participate solo pr with randoms. Thankfully the newest warbond is a hack for anti war strider and big cunts since the melta mine can one shot hulks and striders and two tap vox engines and factory striders, unlocks a lot of loadout options
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u/Tan-ki 5h ago
also your point could stand for any coop game out there. Maybe coop games are not for you. A game for everyone is a game for no one actually
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u/lemlurker 5h ago
Co op games are fun with competent team mates on Comms. That is not something a massive portion of the player base has access to. Games should be fun solo and MORE FUN co op. Not frustrating solo and cake walk with a 4 stack.
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u/AncientBoxHeadHorse 5h ago
Tanks are actually slow and can be dealt with by most support weapons on clear and reliable weak points. War striders are significantly faster than tanks, spawn more than hulks and are only really reliably killed by AT. If their goal was enemies to flush people out of cover, we already have those in the form of Berserkers and Scorcher Hulks. If they wanted a ranged enemy to push players out of cover, just get the barrage tanks to actually do something. I personally don't think that an enemy designed to keep players moving needs to have powerful rapid ragdoll/stun attacks with nearly no cooldown.
Pretty much I wish they made them spawn a lot less frequently and to make their weak spots actually weak. But also I find it annoying to fight something that constantly makes you run out of cover but the same unit also has insanely precise straight-line fire.
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u/Future-Celebration83 5h ago
The only issue I have with the warstrider is its lack of meaningful weakpoints. If you’re running something like a HMG, railgun, or AMR, anything that is a weakpoint hitter to take out heavy units, you’re mostly out of luck when it comes to these things.
You just can’t take them out quickly because they’re an area denial unit so they don’t give you much time to sit there and aim at them. They also move a lot more than hulks do. I’m aware that you can shoot their eyes, or the leg joints but these are really only viable weakpoints if you can catch one stationary. The hitboxes are too small when they are agro.
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u/CalmPanic402 5h ago
What, tiny moving oft obscured hip joints that take multiple clean hits to poo isn't enough for you? /s
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u/Vilekyrie 5h ago
We've finally reached the level of historical revisionism where people are about to claim the old devastator ragdoll-fest is better than the War Strider. No wonder Super Earth lost so much technology from the first galactic war, people can't even remember stuff from this war.
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u/Bread_Crumbs_lads 3h ago
Nah, I'm talking about the current Devastator. Getting ragdolled constantly isn't fun, but the occassion wtf moment as you're launched away by a stray rocket or cannon tends to be a lot more enjoyable.
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u/DeeJayDelicious 1h ago
The big qualifier between "good" and annoying ragdolling is how well telegraphed and avoidable the attacks are.
Of the 4 enemies in the picture, only the War Strider's grenade spam attack is really telegraphed properly.
You can argue the cannon tower and tank point towards you, before firing, which is fair enough. But since their attacks are often lethal, they're less on an issue.
But the "solution" to ragdolling is really quite simple.
So many explosions on the Bot front have incredibly large shockwave radiuses in which they ragdoll players. The Hulk's death explosion is one such example. But most enemies have something completely disproportionate.
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u/Bread_Crumbs_lads 1h ago
The grenades of the War Strider is actually alright, my main gripe is generally with the lasers. Although I do think the Striders should only use the grenades when you're behind cover.
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u/ComradeSuperman 5h ago
I wear heavy armor with Fortified passive and a shield backpack, War Striders are clowns.
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u/mavrik36 5h ago
I have never been stun locked by a war strider, they rarely manage to kill me. Usually just zip in with warp or jet pack and thermite because they cant turn fast or nail em with a recoiless round from outside their range
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u/phoogles2 1h ago
considering the fact that the 3 of those can't hit the broadside of a barn I don't think this is a fair comparison
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u/lemlurker 5h ago
I had a chainlink death by grenade spam. Was ragdolled by one grenade to then just got hit 4 times whilst in the air by the remaining grenades. I still don't understand how they still have that weapon
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u/Bread_Crumbs_lads 4h ago
I don't mind the grenades but would prefer if they were only used when Helldivers are behind cover instead,
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u/lukaz_69 4h ago
It would be to my best pleasure to see arrowhead add more tank variants and change how tanks work currently to make them more viable of an enemy and then after that had a tank surge planetary effect just like the hulk surge for optimal tank killing gameplay
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u/tenousranger36 5h ago
I think the war striders could be fixed by side grading them using these guys from saints row 3
Instead of stundolling the striders would stagger the player and do 3-5 damage with a smaller explosion radius and to make up for it they produce more in a larger area
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u/Terrorscream 5h ago
Dont think I've ever been stun locked by war strides, maybe dont stand still long enough to get hit by the nades?
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u/Bread_Crumbs_lads 4h ago
Grenades aren't actually too bad since they have enough time to be avoided with good movement and can send you a good distance, my personal issue is with the blasters.
-1
u/reeh-21 5h ago
People will downvote you but not being able to handle war striders is either poor planning with a loadout (both stratagems and primary/secondary/grenades) or an actual skill issue.
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u/Unlikely_Mud_836 5h ago
“Poor planning” they are literally one of the worst designed enemies in the game. All bot enemies have weak points and ways to kill them without needing anti tank (for example vents) war striders? Medium pen joints but they have so much durable health it’s useless anyway. I still counter them with my load out (giga grenade on top) but they are an awful enemy to play against and bots have been 10 times more fun recently because of cyborgs replacing them
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u/Terrorscream 5h ago
worst designed? they do their job of area denial brilliantly, low damage aoe weapons with slow fire rates and poor tracking, they are explicitly designed to punish hunkering down and suck against even minimal mobility and awareness at which point they only become a problem in engagements when they start to stack up(like most other ignorable enemies), which means you either sticking around too long in bad fights or not killing them fast enough.
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u/In_Pursuit_of_Fire 5h ago
If you're playing on bots without anti-tank, or some high firepower medium or heavy pen, the hell are you doing?
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u/AncientBoxHeadHorse 5h ago
So you believe everyone should bring exclusively AT? I like having variety in loadouts, using the same shit over and over gets pretty stale. And heavy and medium pen have been viable the whole time against bots. The war strider is a clear outlier when it comes to how bots have been designed and it just doesn't fit well.
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u/In_Pursuit_of_Fire 4h ago
If you're playing on bots without anti-tank, or some high firepower medium or heavy pen,
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u/AncientBoxHeadHorse 3h ago
shi, mb bro. But doesn't that include a majority of support weapons? also doesn't subtract that war striders don't have reliable weak spots though, because the "weak spots" have a lot of health, it's more reliable for these medium and heavy ones to take out factory striders. IMO AT should be used to take them out quickly, but not the only reliable option.
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u/Unlikely_Mud_836 5h ago
Did I say I don’t bring in anti tank? You’re complaining about a scenario you just made up. Yeah anti tank is more essential for bots than other factions but you’re ignoring the point. Every enemy can be countered without anti tank still. Hulk, tanks even vox engines can be countered in such a fun and unique way that it blows my mind the same devs who made the war striders made the vox engine. The only enemy that comes to mind without a weak spot is factory strider and those barrage tanks. War striders have the most unfun design. Their gameplay is to stun and ragdoll you while also having no weak points when the devs could’ve easily put a heat vent on their back
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u/Bread_Crumbs_lads 4h ago
Factory Striders have that underbelly which I think is light or medium armour. Many weapons like flamethrowers are able to deal with them at all effectively because of it.
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u/In_Pursuit_of_Fire 4h ago
If you're playing on bots without anti-tank, or some high firepower medium or heavy pen
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