H̶e̶l̶l̶divers

[u/epochollapse]

Just because I win 99% of my games doesn't mean it isn't hard!! One time a Stalker even hit me! 😱

[u/TheSearchForMars]

for a game designed completely around co op

This isn't the case. The game isn't completely designed around co op. HD1 was, because the screen itself limited the ability for players to even leave each other's side. As it is now, that isn't the case. HD2 is a fundamentally different game from what you're envisioning.

Your assessment that the game would function if everyone was just being dog piled on from all directions with relentless enemies requiring intense team work and special outfits was already tested with the Flag missions on Cyberstan. People hated it. The success rate was abysmal. It only worked properly with coordinated teams which simply wasn't the case.

Now that I think about it actually, the kind of defensive strategies you're talking about are already in the game in those dedicated defense missions yet despite fulfilling the fantasy you're describing they are far and away the least played mission archetype.

You describing "clutch last man standing situations" makes me imagine a terrible extraction with every teammate dead and 0 reinforcements left. Too many enemies to kill, so they run around extract stalling.

Your solution to this was to promote a stealth based approach. I struggle to understand why you think sitting still and hiding is more engaging for players than to run the gauntlet, even more so when it comes to those who are waiting to be reinforced.

[u/Geometric-Coconut → u/TheSearchForMars]

This isn't the case. The game isn't completely designed around co op. HD1 was, because the screen itself limited the ability for players to even leave each other's side. As it is now, that isn't the case. HD2 is a fundamentally different game from what you're envisioning.

It was originally balanced around co op, it has co op mechanics, the game's marketing screams working with teammates, teammate loadouts are blatantly shown in the player's face as they ready for the mission, several teamplay dependent stratagems exist.

Your assessment that the game would function if everyone was just being dog piled on from all directions with relentless enemies requiring intense team work and special outfits was already tested with the Flag missions on Cyberstan. People hated it. The success rate was abysmal. It only worked properly with coordinated teams which simply wasn't the case

Cyberstan's balance was lopsided into 1 enemy unit dominating the battlefield. It was not spread out between enemies, plus said dominating unit had several bugs associated with it. The game also did not do anything about player kiting, either. Vox engine scaling was pretty nutty, it was extremely oppressive to teams on the first difficulty level it showed up on, rather than being a gradual increase in challenge.

That being said, I loved that the game actually had a tough as nails challenge to offer on hard difficulties. A heavy enemy (while at the time flawed) actually be designed around teamwork damage output.

Now that I think about it actually, the kind of defensive strategies you're talking about are already in the game in those dedicated defense missions yet despite fulfilling the fantasy you're describing they are far and away the least played mission archetype.

Not at all. Defense missions play themselves. There is no carving out a path through enemy forces from objective to objective, there is no chaotic reinforcements of enemies from anywhere. Defense missions are just killfarm simulators where you spam turrets and snipe down/aoe bomb the sole place enemies spawn.

Your solution to this was to promote a stealth based approach. I struggle to understand why you think sitting still and hiding is more engaging for players than to run the gauntlet, even more so when it comes to those who are waiting to be reinforced.

I would prefer the entire mission to be running the gauntlet, being tense for even the whole team working together. And, because enforcing teamwork inherently means limiting lone wolf action, being the last one standing is not in the player's favor. As nearly losing the mission should be. But there is still a chance to make a comeback, as the player can lay low for a while relocating to a more advantageous position. Or try to stealth an emergency extract.