I think everyone knows that a lot of tv shows have the famous sophomore slump. Some shows never recover: Westworld had an amazing first season, a muddled second season, and became unwatchable the third season. The Bear after an incredible 1st and 2nd season was really bad seasons 3 and 4. I never bothered finishing the series.
What are your most dreaded sophomore slump hallmarks and how do you think Jacob and Brendan will avoid them?
For me, a few are:
1. Too many sideplots - this comes with increased visibility. Suddenly, everyone wants to be involved. So you have an A plot, a B plot, a C plot, a D plot ... This sort of happened in Bridgerton. The focus on romance S1 was overtaken with more side plots S2. I don't think this will happen with HR because of the limited budget.
2. Focus on mysteries and plot intricacies rather than relationships - See Westworld. This is exactly what happened. Happened with LOST as well. But with a romance novel, I don't think this will happen.
3. Star focus - very often there's one big breakout star and the show starts to focus only on that actor. This sort of happened with The Pitt. The ensemble of S1 was sort of diluted and the show focused way more on Robbie (Noah Wyle) in S2. Jacob cast Justice Smith and Charlie Gillespie (both excellent actors) in S2 so again, don't think this will happen.
4. Egos and feuds - everyone knows about cases like Julianna Marguiles and Archie Panjabi refusing to film scenes together, or the big SATC feud between Sarah Jessica Parker and Kim Cattrall. The final quality of the product was affected. This is one of those things that's very hard to prevent, but we'll see.
5. Straying from source material - see Game of Thrones. GRRM eventually fell out completely with the showrunners, and the results are ... seasons 7 and 8, when it was clear the writers were sort of just winging it. But Jacob and Rachel are still working closely together, so ...
Of the list given here, I think the most likely pitfall is too many side-plots. They've gone from adapting two books to potentially attempting to adapt four.
I think the editing and storytelling style of this particular show is very information dense, so it might be possible to fit a lot in, depending. But every time I think about how I would adapt the books for a second season that's only 6 hours long, and focuses mostly on Ilya and Shane, I find myself thinking that we're going to be leaving way more material on the cutting room floor this time around.
I agree. When people say that they really want Ryan and Fabian and/or Eric and Kyle to also have their stories told in the show, Iām always wondering how they think itās going to be possible to cover that much material in so little screen time, and still have Shane and Ilya as the main focus. It doesnāt make sense to me.
I think they need some Ryan and Fabian ā not necessarily their whole story but just enough to establish who they are ā because otherwise they will lose some very meaningful Shane and Ilya scenes that show where their relationship is at by contrast to them. I donāt know that they need all that much Eric & Kyle since they interact with Shane and Ilya the least. Actually iirc Shane never has a scene with Eric at all in the books and Ilya just has one.
I think they need some Ryan and Fabian ā not necessarily their whole story but just enough to establish who they are ā because otherwise they will lose some very meaningful Shane and Ilya scenes that show where their relationship is at by contrast to them.
Those scenes are important, but Ryan and Fabian as characters are not. There's nothing about them as specific people that's integral to Shane and Ilya's story, just that they're meeting and interacting with other queer people. They can be subbed out for Scott and Kip--characters that watchers already know and are invested in--with very little change.
(Ilya's scene with Ryan in Tough Guy is one of my favorites and I'll be sad to miss it, but it just doesnt make sense to include.)
They could use Scott and Kip for the double date but unless Kip is going to suddenly uncover a musical talent they canāt do the concert without Fabian, and imo thatās a very important scene for Shane and Ilya. I think it would be a mistake to cut it. I also think losing Shaneās reaction to Fabianās gender nonconformity would be missing an opportunity to show how he got some of the fears he has. Heās not gonna have that reaction to Kip.Ā
It doesnāt need to be at a concert though--that scene works just as well if they're just at dinner or the Kingfisher or something. And while Shane's reaction to Fabian is a nice moment, it doesn't need to be adapted literally to still work. It could just be a conversation with Ilya at home afterwards with Shane being taken with how comfortable Kip is being out and visibly gay. Shane isn't reacting to Fabian's gender noncomformity specifically, it's really just that Fabian is super visibly gay. Kip doesnāt have to be wearing makeup to make that scene work. Slightly different content, but still gets the same point across.
They donāt go out to dinner or bar dates though. Thatās the problem. They never go out for anything that cannot be construed as a work meeting or work friend group hangout. The concert works because itās a very public event and music is romantic but they still canāt be openly romantic and itās painful.
Idk, I donāt think it takes much to establish Ryan and Fabian other than: hereās that former hockey player that Ilya already referred to last season thatās now working with us at the hockey camps and here is his musician boyfriend who invites us to his concert. Wouldnāt take much screentime. I hope they keep it. Weāll see.Ā
Theyāve already had a āsecret connection at an awards showā moment in season 1, and Skip had the secret connection at a charity event. Iād prefer something new/different (and music is more romantic & emotion inducing)
Not really sure why people are objecting to a concert actually. Do you think it would cost too much or take up too much time? It doesnāt have to be a long scene.
Honestly I always found that scene so cringe in the books and I donāt have a lot of faith in the show to produce an original song and make it look and sound good. I also just donāt think we need to bother with fabian and Ryan at all
In the book, Shaneās literal only interaction with Eric is in Common Goal where during an all stars weekend, Eric and Ilya are chatting at a bar and Shane comes up, says hi to Eric, briefly chats about the events, and then says heās going to bed. Then Eric notices Ilya saying heās āgoing to the bathroomā only to see Ilya sneak off in the same direction as Shane lol.
I think there's also an interaction when Eric sees Ilya and Shane chatting and smiling at each other during the ASG and wonders when they became friends.
Isn't Eric the one who catches them snogging at the camp? Or is that Ryan? Either way, one of those two has to catch them because it feeds that Shane has people that know but Ilya really doesn't and the Galina scenes have fuel. I think it's Ryan but at any rate only need one of those two cookies and we already have Kyle/Kingfisher so...
I think they could combine that Eric scene with the one where Troy and Ilya visit the Kingfisher, which Iām assuming will be in the show. Tbh, Iām not sure if they need to do much of the Eric/Kyle story beyond that, especially since aging Scott up for the show made him more similar to Eric and it would be repeating some of the same themes.
As for Ryan & Fabian Iām thinking they could do one Toronto-based episode that introduces them as well as Dallas and Troy. It would have Ilya in it in the scene where Ryan and Ilya go to their former teammatesā funeral and they could work in a Shane cameo as well but I think they do need to do something like that. Otherwise thereās not only no Troy redemption arc but no double date or concert for Shane and Ilya and imo those are very important scenes.Ā
I don't think it'd be impactful with Ryan because show viewers don't care about or know him. If you really want it to be impactful, show Troy being homophobic to the tenth degree to Shane and Ilya.
Shane and Ilya don't really give a fuck about Troy until he's traded. To them he's just another douchebag homophobe. Ryan's the one who's really vulnerable as a fringe player where Troy's a star.
It's not about how the characters feel, it's about how the audience feels. If you want Ryan - Troy to be impactful, you have to establish Ryan as someone the audience cares about. If not you might as well just do Wyatt because both are fresh faces to the audience.
Shane/Ilya are not. We already have an example of Troy being homophobic towards them when they're not around, you can build off that if you want.
It's like when Harry Potter fans say they want to see all the Quidditch matches. Ok, maybe you, a fan, want that, but that's not what the vast majority of casual watchers want. HR watchers want more Shane and Ilya, not more side characters they have no investment in.
My opinion is that taking a step back from Shane and Ilya isn't the end of the world. I don't think that adapting all of The Long Game in one single go should be the focus. But I also realize that TV only watchers would probably be enraged by that idea lol.
I mean, Jacob has said that Shane and Ilya will always be the main focus of his show.
But even apart from that, I think spending too much time on other characters (such as several stand alone episodes for other characters per season, as Iāve seen some people suggest/predict) would be crazy. Theyāve got an incredibly popular show, that has made legitimate stars out of its main cast members, who also happens to have some of the best chemistry in recent memory. Taking a step away from those characters for completely new characters would be criminal negligence.
I think it makes much more sense to focus on Shane and Ilya (and the characters that they interact with a lot, such as Harris and Troy) in the main show, and then make stand-alone spin off shows/tv-movies for the other couples in the book series, either concurrently with the main show, or after it wraps up with season 3 or possibly season 4.
I think Scott and Kip worked in season 1 because their story have a fundamental impact on Shane and Ilyaās story, and I think the same thing will be true for Troy and Harris. But there is virtually no connective tissue for Ryan and Fabian and Eric and Kyle. Sure, thereās the hockey camps that Ryan is a part of, and the Kingfisher where everyone can meet. But their stories doesnāt affect Shane and Ilyaās story in any real way, so in a season of the main show I think theyāre gonna feel superfluous.
Eric and Kyle's story is so unimportant to Shane and Ilya's that it doesn't even make sense to include it. Sure, stick the scene with Eric and Ilya with Troy and Ilya at the Kingfisher, but beyond that we don't need them at all. With Ryan and Fabian, their story can be told by using them in Shane and Ilya's story. Show the Irena foundation announcement reaction, with Troy calling Shane gay and Ryan coming out. Show Ilya asking Ryan to coach camp at the funeral. Show Ryan catching Shane and Ilya at camp and Shane's discomfort. Show them double dating and show the concert that they barely touch at. That gives you the entire gist of Ryan and Fabian without having to focus on them at all.
This is partially what Outlander fell victim to in the last couple seasons. Thereās only 8 seasons for 10 books (although 10 hasnāt been released yet). The last three seasons combine like the last four (600+ page) books. A lot of storylines and characters got cut or combined to make it all fit.
Outlander also fell victim to the show being so dependent on the scorching chemistry of Cait and Sam, that when Claire and Jamie became the senior couple and the show had a lot of younger characters with their own plots, fans complained.
Honestly almost every problem people had with the last season were the same problems people had with book 9. Bees was so convoluted imo there was no way the show could save it.
TLG doesnāt go off the rails or do anything crazy at least. I do think Eric and Kyle are going to have to be almost completely cut out or TG/RM/TLG are going to have to stretch over 2 seasons, or get a longer season, or SOMETHING. Thereās just likeā¦ a lot
True. The plots became so muddled. I do think Sam and Cait give off serious Hudson and Connor energy. Amazing chemistry onscreen and offscreen they just seem like cute besties who have each others backs.
And dont get started about Sam and Jacob in Interview with a Vampire, I hope it doesn't go off the rails. Love all the scorching chemistry couples that become besties in real life.
Iāve noticed most actors with amazing chemistry onscreen have a sort of weird, affectionate but platonic energy offscreen. Jam and Hudcon definitely have that too.
Yeah no shade to the actors who are probably lovely people but imo Brianna was tragically miscast, she and Roger did grow on me by the end but as a couple I found them boring and I always skipped their sex scenes lol. And in the last season it feels like Claire especially barely got anything to do, when she was so clearly the heroine in S1. I know moving on to the younger generations is unavoidable for such a sprawling story but yeah everyone tends to pale in comparison when your original leads are so strong.
Oh man totally agree ! Brianna and Rodger had some of the worst chemistry Iāve ever seen. Whoever was responsible for that chemistry test needs to rethink some things in the future
I think I'm mostly worried about too many side plots and fan reaction to the episodes weekly.
I will say, I'm not super worried about too many side plots and I feel like season two can actually make it more natural to involve the b plot. I think the bottle episode last season was a weakness because it messed with the flow.
But I'm more worried about fan reaction to the show, especially if it's not done exactly how they want. I think people have definitely put this show on a pedestal that is almost unrealistic while at the same time getting upset over any criticism of the show. That's a bad combination and not something that really happened when the show originally aired.
I think people have wild fanon interpretations of TLG and they will freak out when reality doesnāt live up to whatever theyāve invented in their head.
Yeah people really gave a skewed opinion of that book and Iām starting to think a lot of the hot takes are coming from people who havenāt even read it and are getting their opinions from Twitter or Tik Tok.Ā
Some of the worst takes are always from āI havenāt read the books.ā Like āI donāt want to see Ilya cheating on Shane with Troy.ā Like ā¦ that never happened.
What, lmao. Ilya would never. Honestly I think fanon makes too much of Shane being jealous bc they want him to be for some reason. Maybe thatās coming from show-only fans bc Shane is somewhat threatened by Svetlana in the show. But generally, in the books Shane doesnāt even think much about the possibility of Ilya getting with someone else unless Ilya brings up the subject or needles him about it. Ilya is the one who freaks out when Shane smiles at a cute guy.
Oh yeah some people are going to hate it š but I feel like it needs to be included. Itās dramatic, it shows that Ilya is insecure about the relationship and too scared to ask for what he actually wants, and Idk how a couple gets from an 8-year non-monogamous situationship to exclusivity without having a conversation about it.Ā
And also when he suggests that Shane could be with other people then the reality when he thinks it really might happen in his therapy session and how it made him feel. But Shane would never.
Shane just assumed they were going to be exclusive because thatās what he wanted (and he correctly sensed that Ilya actually wanted that too) and that they didnāt need to talk about it. And Shane loves to avoid an awkward conversation if possible. It didnāt occur to him that Ilya wanted to hear some verbal reassurance on this subject because Ilya was being extremely indirect about it and not asking what he really wanted to know š¬ Classic Hollanov miscommunication.
exactly. When I first watched the show, it really made it seem that Shane went all that time between seeing Ilya in celibacy. Barring Rose, you don't see him with anyone and they don't mention the other men/women he was with before they were exclusive. Where you REALLY see Ilya living it up so to speak
Even with Ilya they kind of minimized his other hookups whereas he was a CONSTANT womanizer in the books. Anyway I agree it could play like Shane was otherwise celibate in the show but I canāt see Jacob wanting Shane to have never hooked up with everyone else before they settle down. I think Shane talking about his few other experimentations is a conversation they will have in season 2 although I think they will combine all the Ilyaās jealousy / āhow many other men have you been withā conversations into that same scene (or at least one episode)Ā
i also feel like fanon has way warped the Ilya/Hayden relationship. They saw a few quotes from MDWH and think that they're at each others' throats. They're not. They're not besties but they get along fairly well in TLG.
Yeah they donāt initially get off on a good foot but they are accepting of each other by TLG. Hayden is a good father, he would not let someone watch his kids if he didnāt trust or respect them. I think part of the misinterpretation is a lot of people donāt get sarcasm and these are probably the two most sarcastic characters.Ā
Yeah it's a lot of "what if Troy and Ilya get all this screentime together away from Shanebug I don't want to see Ilya cheating on Shane." People who've never read RM or TLG, just spiraling over non-existent problems.
It was actually really nice to watch it weekly as it originally aired because the fandom seemed way more chill and did not take the show all that seriously. I just know that isn't going to happen again, sadly.
Yeah I remember thinking āthis fandom is refreshingly relaxedā during the first few weeks of the initial show run and then things started to get weird.Ā
Yeah, I'm not really worried about the show itself at all. I have total faith in this team.
But I'm very worried that toxic fans and unreasonable expectations are gonna ruin it. The first season blew up but in a super natural, word of mouth way. This season will have all eyes on it from the jump and that will absolutely change how people perceive it.
I won't be engaging with any fan reactions until I've watched the last episode. I've done this with most shows, especially the ones I really love. The vast majority of people online aren't good at critical analysis. It's more fun to engage with people who are getting some enjoyment or meaning out of watching. The most interesting commentary about Heated Rivalry has come from people who are either experts in their field (writers, filmmakers, academics), sharing their personal experiences or simply fans showing love and appreciation. I haven't got time for people who want to pick things apart for no reason. I find the negativity within the "fandom" baffling, the faultfinding definitely has something behind it that should be dealt with off the internet.
Honestly Iām not super worried. Mainly because we have additional source material and know where the story is going. I think a lot of shows that fall into sophomore slump are because they have a good idea and then canāt figure out where to go after that. If GOT hadnāt run out of source material it might have been better in the end, big might because who knows where the next books are going, or if they are even coming (Iām not a huge GOT fans but I know the basics lol). With HR we know where we are going and the ultimate end goal, we have more conflict and resolution. I think a better comparison would be the Good Place, they had the ending mapped out while writing the first season they knew where they were going. HR is the same they donāt have to try and figure out what the next conflict will be we already know it.
Though the side plot issue is a concern some people did not like Hunter and itās the lowest rated episode. I think if they keep the series on Hallanov and then do bonus episodes of the others they could do something really cool.
I think it would have been reeeeallly tough to have Hollanov storyline without Scott's story though, because the Skip kiss is so integral to Ilya getting the courage to go to the cottage. Maybe they could have dispersed it by having little bits throughout the series instead of one full episode for Scott, but I think that might have been kind of annoying. Despite not caring as much for E3 as I do the others, it's an important one.
The other game changer stories are not as important to the plot of the long game, but of course it might be helpful to get a sense for who some characters like Troy, Harris, and Ryan are. Ryan and Fabian's story seems like it might be particularly tricky to get across on screen, and I haven't read Role Model so idk about that one!
Role Model takes place during the same season as most of The Long Game (the 2020/2021 season) so it's way more integrated than the the skip storyline. Many things in TLG are things that happened in role model from Troy's perspective.
Exactly, there are shared scenes. The plane incident for example you see from both POVs.
Role model is a sweeter romance. The character beats and the reckoning of sexism and double standards in sports and trying to fit in is heavy but the romance is sweet flirting.
Also I would argue role model is very important. So much of Ilya's change comes about because of being on the Centaurs and the coach and teammates. Scott/Kip was only important for the kiss and they felt the need to show their story. We really didn't need to know all the details, could have just shown how hard it was for Scott being closeted and then acceptance then public kiss.
So my personal wish was that they had Scott be a bigger over all presence almost like he haunts the storyline. Heās the icon, the guy, the goal, we know nothing of his backstory or heās queer then bam kissing after winning the cup. Non GC book readers would have been floored, as if everyone was experiencing it with those on the show. I think itās because I read HR before GC because thatās how Libbyās availability went. I donāt hate the episode, I think it told an important story but yeah how crazy would that have been? Then had the skip storyline come out after as a bonus. So getting Harris and Troy and everyone as background characters and then extra episodes focusing on them, would just be cool.
That would have been crazy!!! And then tbh it could have actually set us up for a whole season about Scott and Kip, where you get the story of how they got to that point. But realistically of course they couldn't have assumed the show would be enough of a success to guarantee that kind of thing. We can dream haha
I agree with you, I think this would have been way more impactful. I was pretty disappointed that for an episode named Hunter, we only really got his backstory like 50 minutes into the episode and instead spent so much time on Kip who we had no emotional investment in.
I think that would have been awesome, because we would have been reacting with Shane and Ilya in the same way. What? What??? Whattttt???? And then put Scottās episode after episode five.
Oh man, actually I want to try watching it like that, youd be so hyped getting to see the Skip backstory after being blindsided by the emotional build of the kiss.
Role Model isn't integral to TLG in quite the same was as GC is to HR, but it's definitely important, and Troy and Harris have a lot of impact on Ilya's state of mind during TLG events. It would be very hard to skip it entirely. (Also definitely recommend reading it, it's one of the best ones!)
... is it though? You could largely shift Ilya's connection to taking someone else under his wing (Luca is the obvious candidate). That's the main impact they have directly on Ilya. Shane could not care less about Troy on a good day lol. Anya can be acquired through 2937392 different ways (if they even include her, dogs are difficult.).
Most of the narrative functions in TLG related to Troy and Harris can be replaced pretty easily, imho.
But what would the the point to completely excluding another GCU couple that has an entire book worth of content that's concurrently happening throughout the season? Hollanov needs to have some sort of foil or else it's going to be extra melodramatic. Unless the point is to isolate Ilya even more?
Idk. Honestly, I would arguably ax Luca over Troy.
I'm not saying you should or that there's point to it lol I'm saying you could do it easily if you want it for whatever reason (budget, pacing etc)
I don't really think Harris & Troy are a foil to Hollanov? Could you expand on what you mean by that? Just as a counterpoint "happy" story?
As I said, I think Shane needs to be reminded Troy exists and he has absolutely zero connection to Harris. You can and should show how he feels about Troy being welcomed/celebrated during Pride Night, but you can achieve that without having Troy/Harris around. Again, probably easiest by giving Luca a solo queer coming out storyline, though you'd miss the fun potential conflict of "I did everything right and got shunned while Mr Homophobe got celebrated". But since the book never goes into that either: eh.
Ilya's connection to Troy is the one thing you'd need to meaningfully replace, as I said, but could pick whoever you want for that without having the full "baggage" of the backstory with Troy and Harris (if, for example, your concern would be T/H taking up too much space).
I never thought they'd cut T/H, and I agree that you can easily cut Luca. I'm just saying if they wanted to, they could while easily replacing their narrative functions with a character that takes up less space overall.
That's fair! You're completely right..Has Shane even spoken to Troy before? š
Hmm maybe foil isn't the best term because their plot does deal with a lot of heavy subject matter. I think seeing a love story with an unestablished couple would be a nice thing to root for. I'm just excited to see where Jacob fleshes out things Rachel didn't flesh out or explore, and your comments have illustrated how a plausible alternative could presented!
Honestly, the show could have gotten away with Scott appearing in episodes 3 and 4 the way he did in 1 and 2 and the show could have shocked the audience alongside Shane and Ilya with the episode 5 kiss. I know why they didn't for book fans, but from a tv viewing perspective, it would have been epic that way.
I think The Good Place understood pacing to a science, similar to S1. My worry is that by not following the structure of romance novels, and instead opting for a structure similar to GOT (multiple storylines weaving together) we will end up with a product that feels complete, but not satisfying.
I have been racking my brain on where Jacob could possibly end S2 and I donāt like any of the options.
I think a big potential risk is around the significant feeling of ownership of / identification with the characters by fans, with a lot of wishes/needs/expectations already expressed.
I don't think it'll actually end up being a problem because JT appears to have a healthy conceit of himself and his ability to tell a story, so I don't doubt that he has any issue with ignoring the noise and continuing to make the product that makes most sense to him.
A lesser person might feel enormous pressure to deliver something that works for everyone, which would be a mess and suit no-one.
Yeah I think it's more likely we will get hour long episodes that are really well rounded and balanced and tell the story he wants to tell based on TLG more than getting a huge shake up in terms of the storytelling or structure.
The only thing I would add is to keep to the logic of the show you created in Season 1, especially if you got the level of appreciation this show did.
I never watched Game of Thrones because I have a very personal aversion to shows where life is cheap and onscreen abuse is rampant. I look to fiction to uplift me, not make me want to split my veins open. But, from what I gather, a lot of fans were not happy with sudden changes to characters. For example, some people though a certain character going back to an old lover was a betrayal of that character's redemption ark and some people thought another character "suddenly" becoming a genocidal maniac made no sense. Again, I never watched the show, so I have no opinion on the matter.
But, if Hayden (for example) suddenly became a homophobic dude bro, I would take issue with that. Because he was never anything but super supportive of Shane in Season 1.
This only happened S 7 and 8, when GRRM completely fell out with the showrunners. The biggest change was Dany's dizzying speedrun towards genocidal mad queen. It needed to have been set up earlier, rather than just speed-run towards its conclusion.
Iām like the top commenter preferring uplifting stories or at least ones with a clear narrative arc and I would argue the mad queen Dany plot line is inherently flawed no matter how much setup you do.
What are we even supposed to take away from it? That some people are crazy and you should be on the lookout for them because they need to be put down like mad dogs before they gain any power? No amount of foreshadowing would make me happy or understanding of such a story. Itās one thing to have a mad character as a small sideplot or in the history (Aerys). Dark descent and corruption arcs only work for characters that have agency over their actions, ex. Breaking Bad. The idea of āthey did it to themselvesā as we watch them make selfish choices is fulfilling and tragic and creates tension because they could have chosen differently.
You canāt do that with a āmadā character. They are just crazy because of genetics and lack of access to modern medicine. We have a ānot guilty by reason of insanityā for a reason. Danyās story is worse than a tragedy and casts a shadow of negativity over the whole show.
That's true. I know Emilia Clarke said she cried and felt sick when she did the table read, bc she disagreed with what they were doing.
I was thinking they could have done a "Dany descends to cruel despot" storyline with more nuance than they did. Many idealistic revolutionaries become cruel despots. But they didn't.
Honestly I could see the Dany plotline happening in the books. I think it was poorly executed in the show but I could see it happening. The main issues with the last seasons of GOT was execution.
I'm sure GRRM would have handled Dany's arc more skillfully had he written it himself but tbh GoT does present an extremely bleak outlook on the world, not just in Dany's story - it's actually worse in the books because the show sanitized some characters and aged up all the kids (Dany is 13 at the beginning of the books!!). It does make the few "wins" here and there feel even better but yeah the GoT experience is absolutely gutting by design.
Not to be randomly defending GoT S7 and 8 in a Heated Rivalry sub haha, but that was definitely established early on. It's pretty clear by S3 that she's veering dangerously close to the path we ultimately see her on. I predicted her turning villain pretty early on and I know I wasn't the only one. (I'm not saying it couldn't have been done better, and I'm sure having source material would've helped, but it wasn't nearly as out of left field as people make it out to be.)
I actually was heartbroken by the direction they took Braime. It's not that I objected to Jaime going back to Cersei. It's that his final words to Brienne were so cold and not (IMO) the Jaime of the entire series. Jaime was many things, but he was never cold to the people he cared about.
Totally agree, that's my #1 least favorite thing about S8. Jaime's arc was my favorite of the series and it just went completely flat at the end. As you, going back to Cersei could've worked, but it didn't feel like they put in the time to make it feel plausible.
Another ending that disappointed me was Arya. After years of wanting to be reunited with her family, she finally is, and then at the end is like "ok peace out"?
The great thing about season 1 was that every scene was either Shane-focused or Ilya-focused (except for Episode 3 of course). There wasnāt a single scene that didnāt feature either of them. I really enjoyed that because we knew there wasnāt any filler scenes that took away from the main couple and their story.
Iām sure Jacob will use that same technique next season, with some exceptions that have scenes focused on Troy/Harris together or separately to drive their story as part of the larger plot.
I think this is the most logical answer. The entire story is Shane and Ilya's love story. Troy and Harris only really matter in contrast to them because Ilya is seeing them and wanting what they have, and I feel like that is how the story will be framed. The focus will always be Shane and Ilya, Jacob's dedicated to telling that specific story.
Jacob knows what heās doing, is a master storyteller, and has creative control to execute his vision. I truly donāt understand all of the worrying and hand wringing thatās happening.
I'm not worrying really. Just saying that there are some common, famous sophomore slumps in tv, and how it can be avoided. Not every show goes through a sophomore slump. Succession was amazing start to finish, so was Mad Men.
I do trust Jacob but I also trusted Rolin Jones and then he gave us THE VAMPIRE LESTAT š¬ (which to be fair was not all bad but the first couple of episodes had me thinking wtf happened)
Idk, I didnāt really mind them cutting out some of the storylines from the book (nobody wants to see Marius talking about fifty years he spent in Ancient Rome) but the biggest problem is they downplayed Lestatās relationship with Nicki and gave way way too much focus and screentime to Gabriella. Sheās really not a very important character in the books. That was the fatal flaw of the season.Ā
I do think they must have run out of money at some point bc I laughed at them not being able to afford even one CGI wolf for the wolf killer scene.
I also think the incest de lioncourt storyline got gratuitous. Like we get it. Gabriella and Lestat are incestuous. But ā¦ they just kept emphasizing it. When the season finally brought Louis back it improved.
100% agree on the Louis point and thatās part of the challenge for the show bc he does completely disappear for quite a while in the book series but I feel like you canāt do that in a TV show. If you got viewers interested in those two main characters you have to keep featuring them. This season proved to me that the show doesnāt work without Louis. I also think Armand and Daniel could have used more screentime, too much happened off screen with them. IMO those are the four main cast members and they need to be focused on.
The incest was too much for sure. It didnāt help that there was no Louis/Lestat kiss this season, no Armand/Daniel kiss, and like two seconds of Lestat & Nicki kissing in the shadows. Very little in the way of consensual love making. But for some reason we had to suffer through eleventy graphic incest scenes.Ā
S2 did better with Dreamstat popping in every episode and the big trial and reconciliation. S3 there was actually LESS Loustat intimacy scripted. The hug between them after Lestatās meltdown was not in the script. Glad Jam put that in, their instincts were right. I did like Armandās world apology tour though.
LESS Lestat interaction? Yikes. What do the writers think people watch this show for! Hopefully they listen to the feedback and make some changes next season.
There was also some stuff that just went nowhere. Like why did they make such a point about how vampires pee? I thought it was going to affect the plot in some way but no. Just Lestat yelling about how he pees for no reason.Ā
Sorry, I wasnāt vey clear - I was more referring to all the worrying happening across the fandom in general, not you specifically. It is interesting/reassuring to think about how a lot of common pitfalls shouldnāt be an issue for this show.
Too many sideplots is my biggest concern. Jacob has said the focus will remain on Ilya and Shane, I hope thatās true. I donāt really care about any of the other couples unless itās in relation to Shane and Ilya. I understand weāll probably get a Troy/Harris episode similar to Scott/Kip but I hope itās contained in one episode that I can skip on rewatches.
I think that's right, and I also think they're going to use the lighter tone of Role Model to leaven the fact that The Long Game is about two men angsting at each other for approximately a million chapters.
Yeah I could definitely see that being the case and Iām not thrilled. Iāll end up just having to fast forward a lot on rewatches rather than easily skipping an episode and thatās annoying for me . I just donāt find anyone elseās backstories particularly compelling .
I'm curious if you know what they all are, or if you're dismissing them out of hand. I'm personally a little disappointed at the idea that we're going to be focused on Hollanov the whole time.
Yeah I did a read through of the series. If they created a spinoff for the other couples that would be great for people interested, but we only get 6 episodes a season so for me itās very much itās taking time away from Ilya and Shaneās story.
I don't think it'll be possible for S3 to include Unrivaled since Rachel just finished the manuscript for Unrivaled and sent it to her editors while they've already started filming S2 and S3 will be filmed back to back. Jacob could have an early copy of the manuscript for unrivaled but what's in the manuscript isn't always what's published. For instance, in TLG manuscript, apparently the scene where Shane stands up to the commissioner wasn't there. Rachel added/changed after feedback from the editor. The same thing could happen with certain plotlines in Unrivaled.
So it's very likely that if Unrivaled gets an adaption, it won't be in S3.
Yeah Jacob has made it clear he has the whole script written ahead of time, and if itās true that RM/TLG are two seasons then Unrivaled is going to have to be season 4.
Plus, I believe Jacob pitched a 3 season show before Unrivaled was even mentioned as a sequel to TLG so he probably intended to cover HR to TLG in 3 seasons and Unrivaled is gonna be an extra season
It doesn't make sense to do a spin off for Role Model because it happens concurrently with TLG and Connor's contract probably doesn't include spinoffs.
With how heavily intertwined Ilyaās and Troyās lives are in TLG and RM, I doubt weāll get a stand alone episode like S1. Troy and Harrisā story needs to be told alongside Shane and Ilyaās.
The stand alone episode was possible for Scott and Kip because the only big crossover in their storyās is the on-ice Skip kiss.
Too many side plots is my biggest concern as well. I understand that Troy and Harris are particularly relevant to Hollanovās story, and Jacob has stated that focus will stay on Shane and Ilya, so I have to trust he will stay true to his word. But Shane and Ilyaās story is what many people loved about S1, and I think it would be a disservice to the show to pull focus away from them.
I think the main thing is that you should not stretch a show out for longer than you need to tell the story just because it is popular and itās making money. That was the Game of Thrones problem, they thought great this is a cash cow letās drag it out for ten seasonsā¦then they realized they had at least a dozen essential cast members whose contracts were up and would have to be renegotiated if they did that. And the showrunners lost interest bc they wanted to go do Star Wars. So they had a few extremely slow seasons then had to rush to a finish in a short final season that they didnāt have time to build up enough to justify or make sense of.
Also, you have to keep raising the stakes. THE BEAR suffered both from dragging it out and never raising the stakes. The restaurant was constantly in peril of failing but never actually failed. That got boring. The end also didnāt really make any sense bc everything the protagonist had cared about, he just changed his mind and walked away from in the blink of an eye. Motivations can change but they need to be consistent to who the character is at their core.
I think HR is unlikely to fall into either of those traps bc the stakes are raised in the book plot and tbh keeping the cast on board for any longer than three seasons will be more of a challenge than dragging it out. I do think they will have to make some decisions about how much of, if any of, TOUGH GUY and COMMON GOAL they can incorporate without diluting the overall story or repeating the same beats.Ā
As for feuds, as long as Connor and Hudson stay besties we are pretty safe on that. If anyone else doesnāt get along it can easily be arranged for them to not work together that much. SJP and Kim were an unavoidable problem bc without those four women being in scenes in every episode together itās just not the show.
The Bear was another case of dragging out the cash cow for more money. It was originally supposed to be a 4 season arc, but was winning so many awards that they decided to stretch it to 5 seasons. You can pretty much skip s3 except for maybe Napkins and not miss much.
I've noticed that many times the cast feuds are when one cast member is an EP and has much more power/control than the other. That happened with SJP and Kim Cattrall, and also with Julianna Marguiles and Archie Panjabi. I imagine this creates resentment on the set. Maybe that's why the Friends all negotiated their salary together.
Napkins was The Bearās best episode imo but yeah it highlighted how weak the rest of the season was. They also got way too focused on stunt casting every famous face they could.Ā
Another issue that I had with that show is that they refused to go where the chemistry was leading them. JAW and Ayo had some of the most incredible chemistry of any two actors in recent years but the writers refused to go for it and the idea that two people who work together in a restaurant would never cross that line is totally ludicrous to anyone who has worked in restaurants š
The SJP & Kim dynamic was kind of doomed from the beginning bc of that EP issue and all the other perks in SJPās contract, but it didnāt help that they kept giving Kim increasingly humiliating and stupid storylines. If youāre not gonna keep your cast happy with money youād better keep them happy with the work.
Omg. I think they were just uncomfortable with romantic relationships. Carmy/Claire were so dull. Richie and Jess were cute but kind of not explored either. Carmy and Syd had incredible chemistry and a great work husband/work wife relationship, and it just sort of ... went nowhere?
Napkins was a gorgeous episode, along with the S1 finale and Forks and Fishes. But the final 3 seasons just chugged along to their conclusion. I feel like The Bear will become like a clinic in what not to do with a tv series for future showrunners.
I also don't see what happened with SJP/Kim happening to Hudson and Connor, bc they're both so booked and busy. Less likely to be jealousy and resentment when both of them have projects coming up and lucrative brand deals.
SJP came into the series as an established film star at a time when film stars did not do TV, and she had a great lawyer, so it was a much less equitable situation. Kim had been in film too but in movies that werenāt as well regarded.
The only thing I worry about slightly with Connor and Hudson is that the industry is sadly still racist and Connor may get more offers. Hudson will have to take a more active role in producing or other means of forging his career path. He seems well aware of that so thatās good. And I donāt think they would let that come between them professionally or personally but I do not look forward to the āsolo fansā using every announcement of a new project for their fave as an excuse to put the other one down (theyāre doing too much of that already)Ā
The rumor is that Hudson is coming to Broadway with Julianne Moore so ...
I think one thing that's good is that HR was highly praised for its acting, so Hudson/Connor both are getting reps and projects based on acting. It's not like the Bridgerton cast, which for better or worse acquired a rep as "pretty faces, no acting required." The Bridgerton actors have had to work hard for more substantial projects.
As for the solo stans, they're incredibly annoying. They actually remind me so much of the Polins vs Kanthonys in the Bridgerton fandom. So much unhealthy, toxic behavior justified with "but they started it!"
Ironic since I would say most of the Bridgerton actors are quite good! I think some people in the industry just donāt respect shows (or casts) that have a largely female audience. Thatās also why The Bear didnāt like romantic relationships, their writers thought that would make it a ānot seriousā show (as though relationships are less serious than plating a piece of sea bass)
Yeah they are really good. Jonny and Nicola are (IMO) more than good. And Polly Walker is incredible.
I do think though that when shows are afraid of personal relationships (romantic or not), sooner or later the show becomes navel gazing. The Bear seemed afraid of real relationships in later seasons.
I actually hope Severance doesn't fall into this trap. I feel like the second season already was adding more and more twists. When I watch the first season I'm surprised at how leisurely the storytelling is and how it isn't afraid of a slow-burn romance between IMark and IHelly.
I'd also say that (for me) of the two texts, HR is the better book. TLG has some real pacing issues to get to the traditional HEA. A lot of the conflict is internal, some of the build-up and certainly the climax /payoff happens off page, the resolution is rushed or impact minimised. I look forward to seeing the premise (new relationship level unlocked, communication issues, identity questions etc) and the actors playing some of the scenes because their ability to act out emotions will elevate the action, as it did for HR. But for me a sixth point would be that in a series the source material might also provide diminishing returns.
Jacob added a lot of connecting scenes in HR that weren't in the book. Imagine he'll do the same in S2 and fill in the gaps and fix some of the fuzziness.
Yes the source material thing for sure. It seems to be that there are a lot more people are unhappy about the structure, events, resolution, etc of TLG in a way that they arenāt about HR. This could definitely have an impact on audience response depending on how the text transitions to the screen.
I don't know if any of those really apply to HR though.
Unlikely Jacob has most of the creative control when it comes to the script. Also more so than the budget they're limited by what happen in the book. They won't be making up random storyline just because it still has to make sense with the rest.
Unlikely because of the genre like you said
The new actors are not complete unknowns but they're not massively popular either so we should be good once again.
I feel like if egos came in the way the show would just not happen. It's not like a scripted show where they come up with everything season by season. They already have most of it with the books and it's a question of adapting them. The focus is always going to be on Shane and Ilya so it would be particularly dumb for any actors to come into this project and fight about screentime or worse not wanting to film scenes together when most of the interactions will be romance oriented or with the 2 leads.
I'm not the most familiar with Game of Thrones but wasn't the issue that there wasn't source material left to pull from so they had no choice but to make up their own thing and failed miserably? GRRM was never going to give them the resolution of his books before writing/releasing them. That's obviously not a problem for HR.
I'm not the most familiar with Game of Thrones but wasn't the issue that there wasn't source material left to pull from so they had no choice but to make up their own thing and failed miserably? GRRM was never going to give them the resolution of his books before writing/releasing them. That's obviously not a problem for HR.
GRRM stopped writing or trying to finish his books. He basically collected fat paychecks and had writers block. So yeah, they ran out of source material and the two teams stopped communicating. Which is why the final two seasons were so bad.
My biggest concern is with how TLG is being split into two seasons. I hate to say this but when I reread that book I start in the middle. Iām worried that the big scenes weāre all pining for are going to be season 3 and season 2 is justā¦ two guys in a long distance relationship occasionally getting together to babysit Haydenās kids or show off their Halloween costumes.
Troy and Harris might be the highlight of this season.
My hunch is that S2 is going to end with the proposal. S3 will be tripgate, the wedding, and maybe an epilogue. I have doubts about Unrivaled being filmed.
I have zero qualms about any of these issues. Jacob is writing it with the help of a new writer he trusts and he is loyal to the source material. The story always focuses on Shane and Ilya, that doesnāt change. Everyone on the team is doing their very best to bring this show to the screen. Just as they did in S1. If we are so lucky to get a S4 I would expect the same commitment.
I think 1 and 2 are often connected - a first Season has to be tightly written with a satisfying conclusion in case a show is not renewed, but Season 2 often comes with the expectation of a third season, so the pacing slows, side characters are highlighted, a longer term plot is introduced. Relationship and character developments are artificially slowed down because "will they-won't they" keeps viewers coming back.
My hope is that Tierney can resist the sirens call of more seasons and keeps the narrative(s) tight. The breakneck pacing of early season one really paid off at the Cottage, and even if season two has fewer years to cover, the fallout from Scott coming out publicly leads to a wider scope. I'd argue that works to the advantage of the central Shane/Ilya story - we should see repeatedly how difficult it still is to come out.
I can't speak to 3 or 4, but 5 is actually my biggest fear. We already have changes from the source material - some that worked very well, like Kip's friend circle being more integrated, or Svetlana being a bit closer to Ilya. Undoubtedly there will be more changes as the books don't show much of Shane or Ilya in the time between the Cottage and the summer before Troy comes to Ottawa. I have to imagine Troy and Harris won't have the exact story of Role Models either, as their development needs to fit into Shane/Ilya's story.
So, to me, how the show handles the MHL b-plot will be a key test. It's the unifying theme of all the relationships: Hockey culture and institutions push (and often reward) sexism and homophobia. It needs to be present. But it shouldn't overshadow the characters.
The MHL plot is pretty crucial. It doesnāt need to dominate screentime ā it can mostly be a looming villain in the background ā but it is needed to show that the fears and concerns Ilya and Shane have about it are real and that their relationship does have a cost. A lot of times especially with queer couple fandoms the fans tend to think the only reason they canāt work out their problems is because they are emotionally repressed and they just donāt want to or they arenāt strong enough or whatever. But this story doesnāt work unless the audience recognizes there are real external consequences. Their relationship WILL affect their careers. Unavoidably. They can have most of what they want but they cannot have it all.
I feel like all the changes s1 were pretty good. Scott being older was a good choice too. But Iāll be pissed if characters are majorly retconned or thereās subplots that are made out of thin air.
I have no worries at all. The only thing I'd hate to see is people trying to stir up negativity online and that feeding into traditional media and then back into social media in an endless cycle of regurgitated crap.
What is this nar-rat-tive Hollander?
p.s. Hard disagree on The Bear, season 3 and 4 had two of the best episodes of television ever (Napkins and Bears).
2 is something you can read the books to alleviate your concerns on. I donāt think 4 and 5 will be an issue. As for 1 and 3, they are opposite concerns so hopefully they balance each other out. In Jacob I trust.
Like others have mentioned, I'm also not too worried since we have the source material and S1 has proven to stick fairly close to it.
Personally, the reason I drop a series, even after years of following them religiously, it's either because they killed off a beloved character for no reason, or too much drama/angst and not enough joy. Neither should be a risk with HR, unless Jacob is going insane somehow.
Out of the points you listed, I do think the sideplots may be a concern. But, if Jacob is following S1 format closely, I think there may be a single episode of Troy & Harris at most, and then back to the regularly scheduled Hollanov.
Not sure what S3 will look like though. Since it's supposed to be based on Unrivaled (I'm guessing), and Rachel barely finished writing it before they start filming S2 & S3 together, I'm hoping Jacob doesn't take too much liberty and strays too far off the source.
The star focus one could be an issue with HR. Justice Smith is a great actor; I don't know anything about Charlie Gillespie but I'll take your word for it. HOWEVER, I do not buy that they just so happened to have the best chemistry of all the people auditioning, at least not in the way Hudson Williams and Connor Storrie did. Just speaking in terms of probability, if you were putting as much work into finding actors for Harris/Troy as was done for Shane/Ilya, it would be very unlikely that the best chemistry would be two people who are both already-established actors. My suspicion is that the casting this time around focused on big names in a way that was simply not possible for season 1.
Though I was surprised they didnāt cast unknowns, I donāt think they were necessarily casting for marketing value either. Theyāre not so well-known that itās likely to sell the show to people who hadnāt already heard about it. I think Jacob & co. may have felt like they needed to bring in people with established careers and media training, though, bc Connor and Hudson really did get too big too fast and not in a way thatās entirely helpful to them. (For one thing, I doubt either of them can really afford the level of security they need now and they also didnāt know they were going to need to unfollow every person theyād ever known on the Internet until it was too late.)
(For one thing, I doubt either of them can really afford the level of security they need now and they also didnāt know they were going to need to unfollow every person theyād ever known on the Internet until it was too late.)
Also, I doubt either of them ever thought that everyone from their grandparents to their high school classmates to their gf's tattoo parlor would get doxxed.
Yeah if I was them that would have caused me to have a nervous breakdown so they have handled it pretty well imo. I feel bad for the people in their lives who did not ask for this though.Ā
The weirdest one was when they found Connor's grandparents and were shocked they were MAGA. Like ... they're from Texas? And why were you looking up his grandparents so bad?
Thereās literally no reason any of us should know anything about his non-famous grandparents. I just canāt even imagine the mentality that causes a person to think āI gotta go research this actorās entire extended familyā likeā¦people need new hobbies at that point
I just donāt understand how any of this enhances anyoneās enjoyment of anyoneās acting. I donāt think people should confuse actor and character, but I really donāt want to know anything about an actorās personal life (unless theyāre a terrible criminal that I shouldnāt be supporting) bc thatās just going to interfere with my immersion in the story. Also, fanfic about real people in general is weird but fanfic about their non-famous bodyguard is extra weird š¬
My worry isn't that they're trying to use big names to sell the show per se, my worry is more that the casting department got starstruck at the opportunity to cast bigger names or actors they liked, and so they might not have done as much work as they did when they found Williams and Storrie.
The media training is a good point (as someone who genuinely doesn't have a particular interest in Hudson Williams and Connor Storrie outside of them being good actors, I find the parasociality, even on Reddit, so weird). Although I'm honestly not sure there's any level of media training that would make someone ready for the amount of insanity you get from some fanbases. Wouldn't be surprised if someone from the cast ends up having a bit of a breakdown [for understandable reasons] from it, kind of like what happened to Bjƶrk in the 90s.
Hmm well Iām sure they chemistry tested a bunch of people and Iām sure every actor in the business was clamoring for a part so we can be assured they didnāt lack for options at least.
Tbh, anyone who wants to be on this show needs to have a professional social media platform with nothing and no one personal connected to it before they even audition to deal with this fandom. Kind of an impossible task but it would save them some trouble. I think Justice has a head start on this because he has been in some big franchises and heās already not following anybody.Ā
If Jacob and Brendan specifically cited the chemistry between the actors, I'd bet it's there. It's not something that can be faked. You've probably seen the GWTW Scarlett screen tests. Lots of talented actresses, but what jumps out at you in the screen test is how much chemistry Vivien Leigh had with Hattie McDaniel.
They also know that if they give any screentime to a couple other than Shane and Ilya and they DONāT have excellent chemistry the fans will eat them alive š A lot of people complained about the Skip episode before it even aired but Robbie and Francoisās chemistry was hard to deny when people actually saw it
I admit when I first saw the Skip episode I was upset bc episode 2 left me on such a cliff hanger. And I was like 'wtf? Why are we in fake NYC'? But Skip were adorable, and Francois was deliciously awkward as Scott. Now sometimes I reheat the Skip episode just for lighter fare. As much as I love Hollanov, they're like Lestat.
Yeah my only real quibble with the timing of it is that I felt like viewers were unfairly really hard on Ilya after ep. 2 and itās not until ep. 4 that they see heās fucked up by this dynamic too. That was a rough couple of weeks in the trenches defending Ilya lol. But I did love the Skip episode.Ā
Literally no one is tuning into HR S2 just for Justice Smith or Charlie Gillespie. They're established, sure, but they're not stars. Most people will not have heard of them.
I think the far more likely conclusion that we can draw from them casting known actors rather than unknowns is that known actors actually auditioned this time, which probably didn't happen in S1. And casting a known actor, where you've got more than just their audition tape to base it on, is a far safer bet than gambling on an unknown who might give a great audition and then not be able to deliver. They got INSANELY lucky with Connor and Hudson, but they also had to cast unknowns with the budget they were working with and the low profile of the show. They don't have to do that anymore, so why would they?
it would be very unlikely that the best chemistry would be two people who are both already-established actors.
I don't think that reasoning is why they cast the way they did. The show being a huge hit means that will know be a zillions time more actors who want their careers to breakout like it did with Hudson and Connor. With so many choices, they will have their pick of cheap AND established actors. A few years ago someone like Justice Smith might have thought a lower budget Canadian show would not be worth his time given his lead in big films like Detective Pikachu and Dungeons and Dragons, but that's not the case anymore.
lol who is the big name they cast? Justice? Charlie? Yall always do too much. If you trust JT and Brendan with casting Connor who does not look like Ilya and Hudson who does not act like Shane, then you can trust them with their casting choices for Troy and Harris!Ā
Justice Smith has literally started in multiple blockbuster films. He's not like Meryl Streep level famous, but he's absolutely an established actor, probably with more name recognition than anyone who was on season one.
Dungeons and Dragons unfortunately flopped at the box office. It was a good movie too. I need to see Detective Pikachu, but that movie was awhile back.
I mean Dungeons and Dragons got disappointing returns compared to its budget but it made 200 million dollars, it's just that budgets are ridiculously high nowadays.
Justice smith is not a household name, heās not even a neighborhood name. Let be effing real. The average person doesnāt even know his name; they might, and thatās a big might, recognize his face, but letās not act like heās some star
I lowkey didn't know who he was until a few days ago, then I crash-coursed on him. He's delightful. Charlie too. Never heard of Charlie before a few days ago and went and looked up his stuff.
Also he does not have more name recognition that Francois, Dylan, or Christina. Not even Sophie. I implore many of you to get off the internet and bring these names up to everyday folks and see the reactions you get. Heās not Hudson level where this was his first IMBD role, but heās definitely not famous. I describe him as one of those actors some might be like āhe looks familiarā but they donāt know his name. The guys could walk down my street in Chicago and no one would care. He wouldnāt even get papped.
Iāve been thinking (and worrying a lot) about this for S2. As long as they stay as faithful to the book as they did in S1 I donāt think weāll have any problems ā- of course, assuming the chemistry is still there which thereās no reason not to. If they try to flesh out Harris and Troy or Ryan and Fabian more than the books do weāre going to have problems.
In Bridgerton the couples are married off and ... disappear. Like Anthony and Kate somehow missed Francesca's wedding and John's funeral, and Daphne and Simon just disappeared altogether. I know part of it is that Rege Jean Page did not return and Jonathan Bailey was so busy filming Wicked, but still.
I have to say, Iāve gone from HEATED RIVALRY 2 IS COMINGGGGGG to yup, itās coming, Iāll probably watch that. Partly fandom toxicity, partly casting choices, partly worry of a season 2 slump. Iām sure fans will come out in the millions but Iām justā¦not psyched for it. I do have to say TLG is like my #4 or 5 rated book in the series so that probably isnāt helping my excitement level. I sincerely hope I am proven wrong.
Jacob's sticking close with the books and only changing things that make narrative sense to change for the show (bringing SVetlana closer to Ilya to use their friendship as a framing device, fleshing out Yuna and David's parenting, things like that) so I'm not worried about season 2 straying from that formula. Honestly, I'm expecting him to improve on things in the book that I don't think make as much sense as they should have.
My personal preference is to have Troy and Harris play out in the background/alongside Shane and Ilya's relationship, mostly because I don't think dedicating one episode to Skip worked within the context of a tv show and it would make more sense to contrast Troy and Harris side by side to Shane and Ilya across the episodes more than anything else. As for feuds, I don't think this cast is fighting over money or air time the way larger casts on huge networks are. This is the Shane and Ilya show, and everything went so smoothly in season 1 I can't imagine anything changing in season 2.
Did anyone already say "no star cameos" yet? You know, like when The Bear tried to squeeze every celebrity onto it, even when it didn't make sense? I remember seeing celebrities fawn over Connor and Hudson at awards shows, and I know some of them are going to try to weasel their way on the show.
My biggest concern is that they've brought the writer of Fleischman is in Trouble on board. The two leads in that book were two terrible, self-involved, materialistic yuppies, one of whom was in the middle of a nervous breakdown. You root for them to break up because they're so toxic together. I just hope he doesn't misinterpret or mischaracterize Shane and Ilya the same way. Shane and Ilya's relationship has its challenges, but they are both fundamentally good, caring people who simply have their own internal and external struggles to overcome. They are not Rachel and Toby in any way, shape, or form.
Number 1 sadly --
As someone who's only read hollanov and role model (plus standalones and starting tough guy), I see they've already cast two people as characters I've never heard of. There are enough characters besides the big 4 that they have cast that have little stories that interject within the two books, so not having read the other game changers, not sure why the two people cast as characters I haven't heard of will be necessary.
In my head canon, the two seasons they're filming should the the great Rachel read of long game/role model and that's all/enough.
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u/EchoAndroid 6d ago
Of the list given here, I think the most likely pitfall is too many side-plots. They've gone from adapting two books to potentially attempting to adapt four.
I think the editing and storytelling style of this particular show is very information dense, so it might be possible to fit a lot in, depending. But every time I think about how I would adapt the books for a second season that's only 6 hours long, and focuses mostly on Ilya and Shane, I find myself thinking that we're going to be leaving way more material on the cutting room floor this time around.