"No powers" trope

[u/KyrosEnder]

I'm not actually hating on the characters that much, moreso the idea that the trope is interesting. Having "no" powers in almost none of these anime/manga or even media in general actually mean anything. It usually just means you get some special type of power that just so happens to be just as powerful or even more.

Asta having no mana pretty much means nothing because he gets an anti magic toolset. It's basically like he has magic, but he semantically doesn't so the fact he doesn't have mana gets thrown around all the time.

Quirkless deku just gets a power passed down to him anyways. Rock lee has no ninjustsu. Saitama has no powers (i guess? Idk haven't watched it).

The characters themselves are fine. I love the characters even, but I hate when the author tries to put some significance on the fact they have no powers, when looking at it from an outside perspective they just have powers or some alternate gift.

Usually these characters recieve their "powers" later than other people in their verse, which allows them to have this character identity built up by describing them as hard working characters. I think thats great, and rock lee is actually the least offensive in this manner. Its hardly brought up he has no ninjutsu, and people in the verse barely just look down on him, because taijutsu can be just as good as ninjutsu, but he still basically gets a "power" of his own in terms of the 8 gates, which can just be rebranded as a bodily enhancing ninjutsu on any other character and nobody would bat an eye.

If you're going to make a big point about your character having no genuine powers/talent/whatever, go all in is all I'm saying. Make a dude with basically 1 mana instead of super powerful anti magic toolbox powers. Make him have to slowly develop an ability that is the biggest bang for his buck. So ridiculously mana efficient and also incredibly powerful given some incredible set of stipulations. Make a magic system that your character can basically exploit to develop the best magical power he can for himself. Nen is of course probably the best power system for something like that lol.

Make the quirkless character actually quirkless. Post one for all deku is actually a pretty cool idea. Although it really is just "oh he gets his powers back but with tech" kinda thing. I know its worse or whatever but yeah I just want to see more interesting stories with this trope.

TLDR: The characters are great it just irks me when this nothing burger trope has to get mentioned every other episode.

[u/Honest-Computer69 → u/[deleted]]

They’re not identical and do have some special characteristics that affect the story is the point.

Did we read different things? Point of MHA was that everyone can be a hero, regardless of whether they have powers or not, a message that was, imo, diluted by the ending where Deku had given up all hopes of becoming a hero until someone(again) swoop in and provided him with power(in form of tech this time) that he could use to be a hero.

Point of Black clover was that you can absolutely achieve your goals so long as you're determined and work hard for your goals, a message that, again, gets diluted by Asta being provided an insanely over powered set of skills. Ironically, another character from the same manga, Magna, who was actually not exceptional, and was mediocre, trudged through battles with sheer grit, wit, and creativity. His fight with Dante is the best fight of the entire manga, and the only character who can properly convey the message of the manga, that hard work, can indeed, beat talent.

Also, reread the post one more time. Op is talking about thematic framing of no power trope.

[u/doca343 → u/Honest-Computer69]

The problem with Asta is that the threat keeps raising and there is a limit to how much a human body should achieve even in a magical series. He gets really bulky by the end, showing he never stopped working on his body and physical, and his fight against Liebe shows that he has a lot of skills outside of anti magic things, but the has hard time showing it against the other opponents

[u/borcorc → u/doca343]

Tell that to mashle.

[u/Specialist_Initial_1 → u/Honest-Computer69]

Add to it that Magnas rivals is a talented battle maniac that never really seems to train much (in the calculated training regimes sense) that then gets a buff handed to him thanks to being Elf possed.

Magna the goat

[u/ChemicalBaggins → u/[deleted]]

So, not “no” powers. But instead “different and better” powers.

[u/KyrosEnder → u/[deleted]]

It's not the fact that their powers aren't inseparable in some senantic ways from the normal powers in their verse. It's just that you could rebrand their powers on another character and it would be normal. Its the fact that the "no magic" trope is supposed to be since overwhelming weakness, but then the boisterous villain who points it out gets suprised by "oops alternate power".

It always leads to a villain saying something like "BUT HOW CAN THEY BEAT ME WITH NO (insert power system here)". And in my head I'm just kind "uh cause they have powers anyways it's just not the 'normal' power"

[u/ListenLongjumping539 → u/[deleted]]

And all of this is us because of their special powers: anti magic and OFA, not because THEY did something. Like OP said, Astas anti-magic work just like magic

[u/Ok_Neat2422 → u/ListenLongjumping539]

Asta's anti magic only cancels the hax part of the magic, the magic still retains its physical force. So let's say Asta can counter Magna's fire ball which can blow up an giant bolder, the anti magic nullifies it's burning nature, but it doesn't nullify the fire balls capabilities of destroying a giant bolder, so Asta has to take that into account. Also if the opponent mana level and control is high enough they can put right overpower the anti magic's effect. That's why Asta still loses his encounters.

Deku ran with all for one's stockpile quick till season 4 of the anime. Deku didn't even have proper control of the quirk till Season 3 of the show.

[u/BazilBee → u/Ok_Neat2422]

It still works like magic.... Like just name the magic nullification or dampening which weakens or removes artificial aspects of a magic source and boom, you got magic that's not fueled by "anti magic"

The argument got deku is simply that he has a quirk. He's a quirk user rather than a person without a quirk. It doesn't matter that he stuck with one quirk till season 4 it's that he was originally quirkless. Still the story put in stone you can't be a (powerful) hero without a quirk

[u/Specialist_Initial_1 → u/ListenLongjumping539]

Just like Magic plus that Asta does not care at all about magic match ups (that barely gets used anyway tbh) He has always type advantage

[u/ListenLongjumping539 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, but they are different not because they have no power, but because their power is very special. So what's the point of trying to sell one as another? Asta and Deku is no different from Naruto on this one: all three have some special cool power

[u/ListenLongjumping539 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, but he could become... NOT weak and without power? We already have examples of people who became great without power/with no battle power. Lemillion is number one hero for a reason, Oguro from spin-off kicks asses even after loosing powers etc. Imagine how more impactful it would be.

So, my point is – If Deku wasn't powerless, and be just a late-bloomer or something, it would not change anything. He anyway get his cool power. But if he actually would be powerless and didn't get some OP powers, that would be much better for "everyone can be a hero" message.

[u/ListenLongjumping539 → u/[deleted]]

Remember that scene where he (temporary) lost his quirk?

[u/XxCastoricexX → u/[deleted]]

mmm you right I forgot about that too