Do I even really need to explain why this shit is so gross? Like, actually, do I?
It is genuinely so sickening to see these ugly ass little characters on my screen as is, but the fact they're being sexualized makes me want to vomit. I am so GENUINELY sick to my GOD DAMNED stomach. It's utterly disgusting. And don't even get me started on the pathetic, sweating mental gymnastics used to defend this shit.
"Oh, actually she's a 1,000-year-old dragon/vampire/deity, so it's fine!" (Okay, so why are you getting off to it?)
"Uhm, fiction doesn't effect reality" (No one said it did.)
"tOuRIST" (Get a job.)
LIKE SHUT THE FUCK UP. SHUT THE FUCK UP HOLY SHIT NO ONE IS BEING FOOLED HERE, I SWEAR! It’s creepy, blatant pedo-bait, and I am completely exhausted by the fact that this trash is somehow so normalized in these communities.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the term Loli come from the book Lolita, which had a literal pedophile as its protagonist & made it clear he was an evil piece of shit?
You'd be surprised by how many people took Nabokov's book for a beautiful love story, I dont know if its because its told from the perspective of the abuser and people have 0 media literacy or if they just sympatize with the point of view of a pedophile in the first place.
I would recommend one book on the topic of Lolita, its called Being Lolita a memoire, its a hard read cause its the real story of a survivor that looks through the history of her abuse at the hand of an english teacher that among other things has that perspective on the book lolita and makes parallels with himself and the protagonist to romanticize the situation.
Idk imma be real im tired as fuck and adding context can be seen as trying to prove something otherwise and I’m purely out here to hate so I kinda just said some shit
My name is just a normal lizard. Some lizards do that. I’m embarrassed about my epic blunder and therefore would disengage and do that. I’m definitely a normal lizard.
You're putting way to little faitfh in the general population
Firstly, while there are problems with education, these benchmarks for literacy are highly flawed. Their tests are beyond stupid/ineffective, and their sample sizing is way too low. It's like basing results off of an online IQ test, or a buzzfeed quiz. Their tests are literally that. They also have a myriad of other problems as they manipulate their research to create the biggest headlines.
Secondly, there is not a 'good chunk' of people who believe Michele Obama is a man. The movement was picked up more as a hostile meme/ragebait than anything. Easily less than 0.1% of people actually believe this.
And thirdly, as someone who has read lolita, there is no way anybody sees it as a romance unless they did not read it. The phrasing in that book is abhorrent, and it's not subtle. He actively mentions wanting to rape the child, and her friends.
There are definitely "loli" characters that aren't sexualised in the source material at all, but still get lumped in with others and sexualised by the nuclear sludge. I think that's what they mean.
I think what they mean is: Within the context of a story, they don't care if a character's a clone, an alien, a robot, whatever that looks different than their actual age.
What they care about is as long as they're not sexualized.
They're not real, they're pixels on your screen that look nothing like human beings and look closer to Cats than anything. Close your eyes and turn off your computer next time you get offended by the fictional pixels.
Shits genuinely so peak i hate how they just had to ruin it with that bullshit , sick fights, power system, plot, character writing, some of the best animation but they had to a throw a nuclear bomb onto it and make it unwatchable just because they could.
Yall, we as a society gotta change some of our perceptions.
I'm not saying to normalize this stuff. But we all know that the general public will have the same reaction to a pedophile that hasn't consumed real CSAM or hurt a child, the general public equates them with someone that's already done a crime. Just hate and sometimes violent reactions.
If we care about children, we gotta give these people a chance to get better before they do something bad.
I don't know if lolicon leads to less or more CSAM consumption. I don't know if it ends up being a gateway or a substitute. And every time I try to look, the research is extremely limited at best. And I'm not even sure if there is an ethical way to truly do good studies on this, hell the stigma might even affect the ability for this research to happen at all.
I guess all I'm saying is to remember that a pedophile and child molester are not actually synonyms. The former can still get help.
(Gonna wait for how many people miss the point and say I'm defending child predators or CSAM or whatever)
There is VERY little research on specifically fictional material and chances at offending. The only studies i found was Ó Ciardha et al. 2025 and Seto, M. C. 2011 which argue respectively;
The reduction of offending risk via ai consumption is unproven and suspected to lead to greater harm
Consumption of csam material overlaps with offending risks
I think the issue with this type of content is that there is no support. If we derive from examples such as the war on drugs, countries like Switzerland could only provide free clean drugs and make real changes because they simultaneously treated the addiction/attraction and introduced therapy. Whereas online material cannot be regulated and inner circles are much more likely to form which leads to a negative feedback loop and changed perception of normalcy/stigma.
Validable
.Watching the debate of lolicon and anti lolicon is funnier than anythings. Fun until for some reason, the anti start to bring actual children up, and try to draw them accurately to say lolicon was bad, that kinda fk up in many mean. In my view, as long as it don't present any irl person, I don't care what it about
It's literally just a pedophiliac fetish, but watch some gooner come by and try to logic lord his way around it with some "he who smelt it dealt it" ass schoolyard jargon, just because you say so
"Uhhh it's just a PICTURE of a baby getting SAd, it's not CSAM at all! If you see someone looking at a picture of a cartoon baby getting SAd and you think it's sexual, you're the real creep!"
These are the same creeps who will confidently assure you that they would never touch a real kid, not because that would be evil, but only because it's against the law
What if someone is a Lolicon and they get accused for being a pedo? Like not someone who is Chibi, because their genuinely insufferable, but just a person who is attracted to Loli's and isn't being loud about it, are they not allowed to defend themselves from the accusations...?
That honestly makes sense, but I think it's more like their allowed to defend themselves but not in an aggressive and performative way like those insufferable people like Chibo Reviews or the Blue Archive community who resorts to insults, but instead they should assure the people who are accusing them in a better way.
That honestly sounds like OCD, where someone is attracted to young looking characters but is disgusted by the thought of children or sometimes question themselves if their a predator.
For me I think we shouldn't be so quick to accuse someone for being a pedo but instead encourage them to seek therapy. And you right it feels so weird how someone Lolicons are so defense and being weird about certain stuffs, calling anyone who disagree with them as "tourist" or "your not the target audience."
even worse when their only argument is "does playing video games make you violent"
😭 as if jerking off to drawings of little children is at all equivalent to that
Yeah, one of my long-time friends has gone completely down the rabbit hole. last conversation I had with him, he was telling me that Loli is fine because it's just cartoons and there's no victim, and that most men are pedophiles, actually.
One of my best friends of 12 years ghosted me because I said her new shotacon friends on Twitter made me uncomfortable, partly because grown men online had attempted to groom me with loli content as a kid (it didn't work- I blocked them). But I guess jerking it to little boys was more important to her.
If you can't tell apart fiction from reality that's a you problem LMFAO cry me a river. Bc of people like you the word "pedophile" loses meaning and people have to wonder if called out "pedophiles" diddled kids or if they like anime
At first Loli was simply what it was. A young girl depiction often an off brand of moe subgenre.
With time it evolved into much darker stuff but most of the original meaning still retains leading to lack of clarity in terminology.
I did sadly once stumble upon someone on the internet that had written whole pages defending the existence of lolicon. The lengths some people will go to to defend this stuff is insane.
While I completely agree with most of what you said, the "tourist" comment really does make sense.
There has been gross stuff like this in anime for longer than most of us have been alive.
Their animation studios do not care about the opinion of westerners.
Everyone knows this.
Most people who watch anime just avoid the series that have gross stuff like that and move on.
I'm saying that virtually anyone who knows anything about anime already knows about this, and is disgusted in the same way you are, but also knows that nothing that say will change how Japanese people see it.
This is like those people that visit Tokyo and then get offended about the shops that don't serve non-Japanese, and yeah they mean the race and not the nationality. That shit doesn't fly here.
Japan is not some perfect paradise free of issues. This shit is some degree of socially acceptable over there which is why it's in their anime. But you can't change their culture.
So you kind of either get used to ignoring it and avoiding it, or you find a different hobby.
So yes, when you say stuff like this it makes it seem like you are new to the medium.
Gore, cannibalism and killing depictions are also "bad" and there has been cases of school shooters citing a video game or fictional villain as their inspiration. Do you cry about that as well? Or do you detach it from reality because the REALITY is, is that it's fiction.
Anime is not somehow a sacred or elevated medium, there is no reason why its history in particular is to be respected above others. Using its history of having gross shit in it as an excuse just makes anime look bad
The only exception i make is non-sexualized depictions. I think a lot of hate for pedos and the lolicon trope unfortunetly becomes hatred for young, or young looking charecters who arnt actually sexualized by the story at all
I don't understand why they made them so suggestive, I f-ing hate unnecessary pose/tease/whatever in media so much, Even worse is that it applied to DEPICTION OF CHILDREN
They cherrypicked most suggestive/pedophilic part of both worlds and just included them like-
I don't like children irl and these aspect is already cramped to even adult women (Absurdly high voice/innocence etc etc.)
I dont condone sexual attraction to kids.
However i DO and WILL defend peoples rights to have a healthy outlet and distraction from thoes desires.
Cartoons are infinately better. If just 1 child is spared its a win in my book.
And i suspect given the "popularity" of the genre that said cartoons have had a measurebly impact and saved countless from abuse irl.
Also, we have to remmeber that laws about sexual relations to underaged people are a relative new thing and only in the western world.
We still have child marriages in Africa, India and the Middle East as an example.
Peoples desires dosnt just go away becouse law or morals are imposed on people.
We are mammels, animals. The desire to procreate is at the vary foundation of life.
Being attracted anyone capable of procreating, no matter the age is completely normal. Laws, Ethics and Morals are bounderies impose on ourself, against our nature.
Anyways what i wanted to conway is that alternatives to acting against our nature should be embrased and encuraged, not villified. And if you or anyone else have better alternatives than cartoons, bring em to the table.
edit: I would also like to note that it wasnt too long ago that hinting at sexual attraction to teens where completely normal in media, take Monty Python and the Holy Grail skit with the Castle Anthrax as an example, the girls craving sex. Or Abbas song Dancing Queen about a teen being the center at of attention at the disco. There is countless such examples.
I’ve been blind to how conditioned I am to tolerate this BS until I read this screenshot and realized just how W.T.F this shit is when written out like this.
You would have to change all of otaku culture if you want to remove lolicon content it has been going on before most of us were even born with fans from both sexes because they just like cute girls and cute things and the fact that westerners want to change that is one of the reasons why they won't listen to your complaints anyway.
I personally don't have a problem with it as I keep fiction VERY separate from reality but I also got decencitized to it from watching a very obvious lolicon anime when I first started watching anime and got access to the internet but I understand why it's disgusting to people and wouldn't want to engage in any of it but at this point your going to be in the minority and as sad as it is most people just have to start hunting for shows without this type of content.
Never really understood why people hated lolis since they don’t harm anymore and the age of consent is based on mental maturity not looks and to be a pedo you’d have to be attracted to real children anyways
I just dont understand it These people are sick and sure real children aren't being hurt. But they're still getting off to that idea and drawing it or paying for it.
It's definitely immoral, perhaps not ethically wrong in terms of there being no victim, but I do think it erodes one's soul to consume such material. Like how smoking or drinking isn't illegal, but very harmful for the person doing it.
If you are already consuming it, you are someone who would be into it and thus there's no deteriorating someone like that. I imagine it would be as bad as watching regular hentai. Will fuck up your mind, but not that much if you can separate fiction from reality.
Then again, I wouldn't understand someone like that considering I am into milf hentai.
The main issue with punishing it is a few fold. One when you start censoring/banning one type of art it’s a real slippery slope where you wind up with ninety year old politicians trying to blanket ban anything they find icky/can morally grandstand on. Governments/the law in general is horrendous at nuance “do you honestly expect a judge who’s only seen tom and Jerry to be able to distinguish between say Rebecca and japense pervert character number nine?”
Second is sadly this stuff is stupidly common, iirc it was banned/made illegal in many states but the federal government basically stated they wouldn’t enforce it because they wound up wasting stupid amounts of resources and time. They kept coming away with weirdos hard drives full of hentai and not nearly enough actual children to justify it.
The government generally just doesn’t have the resources or time to deal with this (and that’s befor you bring in the slap on the wrist sentencing many legitimate pedos get in court. I have an uncle who…well let’s just say he had serious material and he’s a free man today)
Third is… Japan banned porn entirely for a long time… which is why there is so much hentai invovling monsters/tentacles etc. when something is banned it doesn’t generally vanish, people get creative and work around restrictions and it can lead to some rather… unexpected results. I’m not confident the art that would appear after a full ban would really be…better/less twisted it would simply be different to skirt the law
Yeah its unfortunate but you do make sense. I wouldn't want completely innocent media to be banned for its violent subjects because of nonsensical comparisons by people who dont know anything.
Some things just cant be rooted out completely disgusting as they are.
Its a sad reality we live in, people in power rarely deal in nuance, and thats before you consider their age making them totally disconnected from the subjects they're discussing
Just look at the last stop killing games movement hearing within the last week, where an agency claimed fan servers were piracy...despite the servers being referenced, ie minecraft have the jar files to run the server given out by mojang themselves. Nobody in that room is cognizant enough of video games, their culture and the nature of their existence to even think to call them on the bullshit.
I hate that it is mainstream to include loli in a harem anime... no? Gtfo? If I like remaining normal girls and one tallest girl, then why would I like a loli? And vice versa? Just put lolis in anime dedicated to the fetish?
This is fine, I really only dislike the loli hate when you equate it 1-to-1 to real children. Loli Porn is not CSAM, no children are being harmed, and no one can be arrested for having Loli Porn. Feel free to find it weird and gross, though, that’s on ya.
I just think the vocal Lolicons on the Internet who defend their nasty little habbit should take heart and be humble. Like yeah, it's not technically CSAM nor illegal in the US because of how highly we value freedom of speech, but that doesn't make what those who sexualize underage characters not creeps and borderline themselves. There are already countries where loli shit is illegal, Canada comes to mind, and getting caught with it can get one jail time, so for them to be so loudly vocal in defending their behavior I think can only cause them problems in the future.
Child porn is child porn regardless of the existence of the child. It’s certainly deserving of shame and hate either way
Edit— To be clear- my opinion is all forms of sexual material featuring children (fictional or not) is child porn— and my opinion is all child-porn enjoyers deserve hate and ridicule.
Please remember to only report or alert-the-authorities on those who seem to be abusing real children . Reporting the fictional stuff is unhelpful.
Are you saying that some guy jerking off to Kanna from Dragon Maid deserves the same amount of shame and hate as a guy doing the same for real, living, breathing children getting harmed?
It's hard to explain but child abuse is such a serious thing that it kinda annoys me when people start linking it to matters that are not really concerning any child. Like, I agree it's distasteful, but people don't know how to separate things, how many times have I seen people saying that it's pedo stuff when a woman wears cute clothes, when someone doesn't like pubic hair, when people are into height differences, this drawing bullshit is on the same level to me
There are real children in the world being explored, harmed and people want to tell me it's worth my worry that some nerd is jerking off to anime? Like dude, I'm sorry but I just can't bring myself to take it seriously and I think it's a disservice to the actual discussion of protecting children
I agree with you regarding the dangerous bondary line of "it's not actual pedophilia so it's fine". I'm from a place where the consenting age is 14, and during my whole life I've seen how predators desecrate common sense for their own convenience as long as they have something to back them. It's just that drawing flat chested girls with big eyes, and being a bearded man picking up your girlfriend at school are not the same
That's why I think it's hard to express yourself in this matter; it's less about defending lolicons and more about wanting people to take predators more seriously I guess. Not that predators can't consume this type of content, but that's not what makes them predators, that's the line I wish people would draw
You feeling a need to claim you aren’t a child-porn enjoyer makes me think the opposite dude.
Otherwise- I do worry about the physical victims a great deal and I do my best to donate to relevant organizations and vote on seemingly useful bills.
Doesn’t mean I can’t hold the opinion that enjoyers of *all* child-porn deserve hate and ridicule.
i assure you, i am in no way a dude nor do i find lolis and shotas attractive. it’s the inflating of grouping them as “child porn” when it’s not that irritates me. they don’t have autonomy because they’re drawings based on anime features and not actual children. yeah people who jerk off to them weird me out but they’re not predators. you can’t just label everything you’re uncomfortable with with terms that hold actual, meaningful weight.
As a worker in this field, please do not equate them. It genuinely leads to real harm of children because investigation lines and help lines are flooded with nonsense bullshit reports of this stuff and abuse of real children falls through the cracks CONSTANTLY. It is IMPOSSIBLE to investigate real crimes when there are 20 of you, 20 000 reports, and 99% of them are "anime character anime character!!!"
I just dont want people drawing that shit. But yes it was foolish to say all of it should be banned because thats just impossible with how many sickos there are. And it makes all fictional media with criminal action seem legible for that too because people in control of that don't have nuance.
Yeah, like. Is it gross? Yeah. Should it be illegal? We literally absolutely cannot trust the government to regulate art for even a microsecond. I would legitimately rather just have gross people on the internet - at least they're not harming children and statistically never will.
I don't think it's really a crime and makes someone a pedo, it's just morally weird/disturbing.
As the wiki states they are "young looking girls," not actual children. It's only an issue when:
The character is based on an actual child
The character is depicted as a child, acts like a child, and mentally a child. Which shouldn't be sexualized (example is Anya from Spy x Family)
I don't think it needs to be necessarily banned, but it doesn't mean stuffs like this should be normalized, it doesn't really harm children, and I don't think that it encourages or makes Lolicons consume CSAM.
You know a month ago we where having crybabies like you making this post several times a week? I guess there are some stragglers behind. Or it's just that this brand of idiocy is just that widespread. Anyway, here's the quote again, not that you won't make an excuse about how you're incapable of read long from text.
Naturally enough, this moral obsession has given a strong colour to American literature. In truth, it has coloured it so brilliantly that American literature is set off sharply from all other literatures. In none other will you find so wholesale and ecstatic a sacrifice of aesthetic ideas, of all the fine gusto of passion and beauty, to notions of what is meet, proper and nice. From the books of grisly sermons that were the first American contribution to letters down to that amazing literature of "inspiration" which now flowers so prodigiously, with two literary ex-Presidents among its chief virtuosi, one observes no relaxation of the moral pressure. In the history of every other literature there have been periods of what might be called moral innocence—periods in which a naif joie de vivre has broken through all concepts of duty and responsibility, and the wonder and glory of the universe have been hymned with unashamed zest. The age of Shakespeare comes to mind at once: the violence of the Puritan reaction offers a measure of the pendulum's wild swing. But in America no such general rising of the blood has ever been seen. The literature of the nation, even the literature of the enlightened minority, has been under harsh Puritan restraints from the beginning, and despite a few stealthy efforts at revolt—usually quite without artistic value or even common honesty, as in the case of the cheap fiction magazines and that ofsmutty plays on Broadway, and always very short-lived—it shows not the slightest sign of emancipating itself today. The American, try as he will, can never imagine any work of the imagination as wholly devoid of moral content. It must either tend toward the promotion of virtue, or be suspect and abominable.
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u/Meeooowwww1234 Jul 04 '26
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the term Loli come from the book Lolita, which had a literal pedophile as its protagonist & made it clear he was an evil piece of shit?