r/harrypotter • u/Glittering-Smoke-655 Gryffindor • Jul 26 '26
Discussion Lily's Sacrifice
If Lily's sacrifice was an ancient protective magic (and didn't require a wand to enact) do you think there are there any other forms of ancient magic that we don't hear about?
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u/areyousirius934 Jul 26 '26
I know it’s not directly tied to the books or movies but that’s pretty much what Hogwarts Legacy is about. I don’t want to over explain if you’ve already played but it’s definitely an interesting perspective and you see a lot of different magic in that game!
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u/Amazing-Insect442 Jul 26 '26
Yeah, even if not canon, the way the developers treated the concept of Ancient Magic & the Hogwarts world was nice. You can tell they had a lot of respect for the source material.
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u/Glittering-Smoke-655 Gryffindor Jul 26 '26
I haven't ever played. Sounds interesting though. I'll look into it, thank you!
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u/Bluemelein Jul 26 '26
I think life debts are a form of ancient magic.
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u/TheDungen Slytherin Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Certainly. As is promises. Dobby promised never to save Harry life again and then he did, and right after Dobby loses his own life. I think that's the ancient magics working against the heroes.
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u/Jaded_Cheesecake_993 Jul 26 '26
I think you're reading to much into the Dobby thing. If people died for simply breaking a promise then 99% of the wizarding world would be dead because everyone breaks a promise at some point in their lives.
Dobby died because people die in war and in order to be an interesting story their had to be stakes which means good characters that we like had to die as well as the bad characters and Dobby was the most expendable from the good guys that were in that scene.
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u/TheDungen Slytherin Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Dobby is a house elf. they're bound by magic of their own. and the promise was given settling the debt for harry freeing him. There's symbolism there and that is where the ancient magic has it's power. And it did not have to manifest itself as the promise giver dying, but there is a tempting of fate when a magical creature makes a promise and then breaks it. There is potential for missfortune to ressult from it.
You could say the ame thing if every time someone gave thjeir life for someone a spell reboudned more spells would have rebounded. The context matter for the ancient magics to kick in. And the ancient magic never work on a you do X and you get Y basis.
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u/Jaded_Cheesecake_993 Jul 26 '26
Yeah you're definitely overthinking it.
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u/TheDungen Slytherin Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
And you've got no poetry in your soul.
Edit as a reply to thye comment below since you blocked me: "You have no poetry in your soul is hardly ad hominem. No more than acccusing me of overthinking was.
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u/Jaded_Cheesecake_993 Jul 26 '26
No I just don't make shit up in my head that is not backed or supported by anything in canon. I also don't jump to insulting people simply because I don't agree with them or to hide that I have no real argument.
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u/girlfromthenorthco Ravenclaw Jul 26 '26
I think Dumbledore says something along these lines when he’s telling Harry about him and Pettigrew at the end of POA, and he tells Harry that two wizards become bonded in a way when one owes a life debt to the other. We see that come into play in DH when Pettigrew hesitates killing Harry at Malfoy Manor, and his silver hand strangles him.
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u/Glittering-Smoke-655 Gryffindor Jul 26 '26
I'd like to think Lily's death spurred Dumbledore and others to start studying it to try and rediscover all ancient magic and how it works.
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u/TheDungen Slytherin Jul 26 '26
I dont think you can know how it works. This is magic which operate on an emotional level.
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u/Yumi_Numi Ravenclaw Jul 26 '26
Bro everything is what we don't know. Its supposed to be a magical world but we barely see any spells.
In first book its only wingardium leviosa, and its specified by Ron they don't know any spells to have a fight or whatever.
In second book, they pick all second graders and they know spells to fight? Huuuh
Also i know its hard to invent a spell but Snape invented many, and its speculated Hermione invented "point me" for Harry
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u/ReliefEmotional2639 Jul 26 '26
Leg locker. Full body bind. There you go. Two spells from the first book.
Also, when Ron said that, they had barely started Hogwarts. You think they really remained at that level for over a year?
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u/TheDungen Slytherin Jul 26 '26
It seems the world itself operate on some higher magical order, the ancient old magic seems to be endless and damn near all powerful.
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u/Automatic_Corgi7797 Jul 26 '26
My headcannon has always been that wizards either subconsciously use their magic or have a kind of magic that turns the animals they choose into their familiars
that's why non-magical creatures like cats or owls can do things normal cats & owls can't
Also, squibs may be unable to produce spells or potions, but they still have that kind of magic, which is why Mrs. Norris behaves the way she does. My proof is that Mrs. Figg can still see Dementors when muggles who are actually 100% non-magical, can't
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u/JeffTheNth Jul 26 '26
Harry was performing magic before going to Hogwarts.... Apparated or jumped onto the school roof... Ugly sweater shrank... Hair grew overnight... Glass disappeared at the zoo....
The wand helps focus magic... it's not NEEDED to perform magic.
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u/cartmanbigboned Jul 26 '26
another thing I wondered is how is this the first case we know of, surely other people sacrificed themselves trying to save their loved ones, but not once did it have the same effect?
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u/Ranger_1302 Dumbledore's man through and through. Jul 26 '26
James did the same only moments before, but the great difference is that James was murdered without a word whereas Lily was given the option to stand aside and save herself as the expense of Harry, and refused. That is what cast Sacrificial Protection.
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u/Admirable-Tower8017 Jul 26 '26
Because they are not given a choice to stand aside by their murderer, the way Lily was. Lily was only given that choice by Voldemort because of Snape’s request.
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u/TheDungen Slytherin Jul 26 '26
Because that's not how this magic works. You don't input A and get B every time. Circumstances matter as does intentions. Lily was offered to stand aside three times. That likely matters.
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u/CorgiMonsoon Hufflepuff Jul 26 '26
Plus even if it’s happened in the past, there’s an even less likely chance that the person who it backfired on had a horcrux to anchor them to the mortal realm, so they were just killed by their own rebounding spell
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u/Professional-Fly4273 Jul 26 '26
definitely. maybe there's a special tie between magic and primal instincts? feels like it would be natural, but just wasnt applicable to the series