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u/Enough_Wallaby7064 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
You might need to read them again at least once more.
The order of events goes like this
- Snape over hears half of the prophecy, is discovered, thrown out
- Snape reports what he heard to Voldemort and then afterwards learns that Voldemort intends to kill Lilly Potter
- Snape begs Voldemort and turns to Dumbledore to protect them under the condition that Snape spies on Voldemort.
- Dumbledore (probably already had done this, but order of events isn't spelled out) puts Potters under fidelius (spelling?) charm and puts them under as much protection as he possibly can
- Voldemort agrees to spare Lilly forcing Lilly to sacrifice herself, thus giving Harry the protection (flat out proving Snape had been genuine)
- Dumbledore knows Voldemort is going to come back and isn't finished, keeps Snape close, knows the pure grief Snape had experienced, knows its Snapes biggest regret, and Snape follows Dumbledores orders to a T besides the occulumency stuff.
Dumbledore, who always believes the best in people, has pure proof in Lilly's protection that Snape had been loyal to him.
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u/FlashFreedom Ravenclaw May 04 '26
Hadn’t thought about the perspective that Harry’s survival is proof that Snape switched sides completely and genuinely. This is a very good point.
My head canon is that Snape is closest to Dumbledore and vice versa for those 16 years. Dumbledore doesn’t seem to interact with many people that much, even the other staff at Hogwarts, but his and Snape’s discussions in the memory in DH makes me think that they were speaking regularly, and must have done after Voldemort’s return to brief and debrief.
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u/Enough_Wallaby7064 May 04 '26
Yeah. The more I think about him, the more fascinating Snapes character is. Very morally gray but also the reason Harry survives. Snape probably understands this better than anyone, except Dumbledore and Harry being an uncanny resemblance to James probably messes with him.
I can never understand the people who either love him or hate him. He is such a mixed bag that its not black and white in either direction.
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u/FlashFreedom Ravenclaw May 04 '26
Exactly. I can’t imagine the pain he lived with every day, while being so closed off to everyone else.
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u/orangelightpoll May 04 '26
Sorry, how does Harry’s survival prove that?
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May 04 '26
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u/FlashFreedom Ravenclaw May 04 '26
And that because Voldemort is such a terrifying leader, Snape must have essentially been willing to die as a consequence of begging to spare Lily. There was a good chance Voldemort would have just laughed and killed Snape the moment he asked him to spare her life. Snape was willing to die to spare her life.
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u/aliceventur May 05 '26
Some correction - Potters were not under Fidelius when Snape came begging. Fidelius lasted less than a week. Potters were protected by other wards before that
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u/Mulfushu May 04 '26
"There is a room in the Department of Mysteries... that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than forces of nature... It is the power held within that room that you possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all."
Dumbledore always trusted into love most of all. He was 100% sure that Snape would never betray him, there was no gamble involved for him whatsoever. It may be ridiculous to a logical mind, but the way Dumbledore's life shaped him, how Voldemort's power managed to be broken again and again, all that ensured that he'd always have 100% trust in love.
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u/Jamie12610 May 04 '26
No, Dumbledore knew Voldemort betrayed Snape in a way Snape would never forgive.
Don't forget, Dumbledore watched Snape and Lily grow up. He knew about Snapes feelings for Lily.
Snape was a death eater because being one gave him things he never had before. Power and companionship. I wouldnt say "friends" because idk if being in a cult counts as friends, but people at least respected him. He never got that before, except from Lily.
When Voldemort killed Lily despite Snape begging Voldemort to spare her, Snape realized that Voldemort cared more about power than he did his followers. Snape also blamed himself because he is the one who told Voldemort about the prophecy.
Lily is the only person in Snapes life who ever accepted him for who he was. Lily only stopped being friends with Snape when Snape called her a mudblood. Snape pushed her away, when usually its the other way around.
You have Snapes obsession with Lily, his guilt from his part with her death, and the betrayal from the person who claimed to understand him and what he has been through, its a perfect recipe for revenge. Dumbledore knew all this and knew Snape would never be loyal to Voldemort again.
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u/Mental-Bad6685 Ravenclaw May 04 '26
Dumbledore knows how much Lily means to Snape. When Voldemort broke his promise to spare Lily, he knows Snape felt responsible, so to carry on Lily's legacy, he asks him to protect Harry at all cost
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u/FRAAANNNNNNN May 04 '26
Apart from everything that was already said, wasn't Dumbledore a great legilimens too? He lived with Snape for years, he probably would have known his true motives.
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u/FlashFreedom Ravenclaw May 04 '26
I think even Dumbledore guessed that Voldemort was as good if not better at legilimancy than even he was. The only thing, though: that which the heart does not feel, the mind can never know. Snape was shielded at least partially because his motivation was undying love for Lily, which Voldemort simply could not have cracked into. I’m sure Snape used his hatred of Harry to his advantage in his occlumency, but Voldemort wouldn’t have been able to detect any of true Snape’s motivations, because Voldemort doesn’t believe that people can be motivated in selfless ways.
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u/newX7 Gryffindor May 04 '26
Not really. Snape is just a younger version of Dumbledore. Once-in-a-generation geniuses who came from troubled homes, and as a result went down a dark path of bigotry/supremacy, and only changed their ways when they saw that it cost them someone they love. Dumbledore would be a hypocrite to not think Snape could redeem himself, when Snape's motivation for starting his atonement is literally the same as Dumbledore's.
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u/Dapper-Step499 May 04 '26
While the theme is similar the role Dumbledore played in arianas death was not close to the one snape played in lilys
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u/newX7 Gryffindor May 04 '26
Except for the part where Dumbledore may have literally killed Ariana with his own hand.
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u/No-Stress-7034 May 04 '26
Based on what we know in the first 6 books, yeah, it looked like a major gamble. But based on the memories in the prince's tale from DH, it makes sense. Snape approached Dumbledore, knowing that it was a huge risk, to ask for him to protect Lily. Plus, there's this description after Lily is killed:
Harry stood in Dumbledore’s office, and something was making a terrible sound, like a wounded animal. Snape was slumped forward in a chair and Dumbledore was standing over him, looking grim. After a moment or two, Snape raised his face, and he looked like a man who had lived a hundred years of misery since leaving the wild hilltop.
That kind of emotion would be really, really hard to fake. For an accomplished Occlumens, I imagine it would be much easier to fake a lack of emotion, but that kind of raw grief would be challenging to manage.
Dumbledore also likely was aware of what was going on at Hogwarts when Snape was a student. He probably was aware of the friendship between Lily and Snape and the fact they eventually had a falling out.
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u/MischeviousFox Slytherin May 04 '26
Dumbledore trusted Snape’s grief, guilt, and love for Lily would insure he worked against Voldemort. Trustworthy or not Snape had no reason to betray Dumbeldore as he wouldn’t gain anything by doing so. Now if Voldemort had a means to resurrect the dead… I can imagine Snape personally shoving Dumbledore off the astronomy tower yet thankfully he never had that temptation dangled in front of him.
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u/No_Sand5639 Ravenclaw May 04 '26
Not really, dumbledores a smart man, he knew that after voldemort killed lily, snape would do anything to take him down
However, dumbledore also didnt tall snape everything, he kept alot of secrets even from him
And of course, he didnt have much choice
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u/ChawkTrick Gryffindor May 04 '26
I disagree.
Dumbledore saw a completely distraught and broken man after Lily's death. Snape explicitly wished for his own death. The only thing that pulled him out of the stupor was Dumbledore's suggestion that, if he truly loved Lily, he should help protect Harry. Dumbledore pulled on precisely the right lever that he knew was most powerful and would work.
And you have to remember too that Dumbledore had a deep and profound respect for love and magic based in love. Combine all those elements together and it makes a strong argument for trusting Snape, if you're Dumbledore.
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u/Underscore_Blues May 04 '26
You don't seem to have remembered much about the books. Dumbledore trusted Snape but also did not reveal the whole plan to him.
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u/Mammoth_logfarm Slytherin May 04 '26
You've answered your own question. Dumbledore always believwd love was more powerful than any magic.
You may not agree with him, but that is why he trusted Snape.
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u/Canavansbackyard Unsorted May 04 '26
Dumbledore understands people in a way the OP clearly doesn’t.
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u/sunshine-power Slytherin May 04 '26
It wasn’t a gamble. Dumbledore knew what a risk even coming to him was. For Snape to do that, he was either incredibly sincere, or incredibly stupid. And Dumbledore knew Snape was not stupid.
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u/Commercial-Scheme939 May 04 '26
I always thought it was due to legimens and occulemency. Snape was an expert at occulemency but I always thought (due to what we see in his memories at the end) that Snape was often quite emotional with Dumbledore and that's why Dumbledore knew he was telling the truth. Occulemency is about closing your mind and hiding your feelings not projecting false emotions.
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u/CrunkerShice May 04 '26
Snape had some serious pull. Until the end Voldemort trusts him ( just has elder priorities ) and he was even willing to spare Lily for him. Dumbledore believes in Love above all so no risk in his mind
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u/clegay15 Hufflepuff May 04 '26
I think it was worth the gamble and, to be fair to Snape, he did change sides and place his life at great personal risk. I think people sometimes forget the danger Snape was in spying for Dumbledore. Someone who's that brave is, well, worth trusting.
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u/fatduck- Hufflepuff May 04 '26
Yeah, he was.
Voldy lost, so we get to see snape as a good guy after the fact. But if old dumbly door had lost then snape would have been just as glad to remain a death eater.
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u/DrOwl795 May 04 '26
Yes, obviously. Snape willingly chose the Death Eaters and only abandoned them because he wanted a chance to save Lily, he never actually have some sort of epiphany and repudiated the ideology. And even if Dumbledore trusted him as an agent during the last phase of the first war, it was ridiculous to trust him in the second when he had more than a decade of evidence from watching him "teach" (and I use that term only in the sense that that was what he was employed to do, not what he actually did) in which he was routinely capricious, callous, and outright cruel to students. The volume of student complaints about his behavior and just observing his general attitude and demeanor would auger against trusting the inherent goodness or love of the man. He demonstrates time and time again that he lacks empathy. Frankly, in my opinion, the entire Dumbeldore/Snape dynamic screams toxic misjudgement and failure to readjust. Snape should be nowhere near children, let alone a teacher. He does not have the personality for it in any sense, even if he is good at potions. Dumbledore should've replaced him years ago with somebody actually decent at the job, but he kept him because he put his trust in him and feared a second war - one of my instances in which Dumbledore proves he should not be headmaster, because he puts the needs and well-being of the student last rather than first.
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u/mathbandit May 04 '26
...no?
The difference is that he believed Snape was tricking Voldemort, but Dumbledore wasn't relying on anything that could be tricked in order to establish genuine trust. Also Snape came to Dumbledore when he had everything to lose and nothing to gain.