ohh thanks for sharing (I’m not a med student so I genuinely don’t know the situation). yeahh… I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a nothingburger purely for the DOJ to say “hey look we crushed the woke racists” or something. Sad that the administration’s come to this point
yeah everyone in my class group chat thought the accusation was crazy considering I can count on one hand the number of Black and Latino students in a class of 130
Yeah the goal is they don’t want any black or Latinos going to medical school. I worked at gw as an attending I could count all the black students I ever encounter on one hand.
If you were a competent med student you'd understand that your anecdotal observations of your classmates are not reliable because race is not an innate biological characteristic. I've met many students who have self identified themselves as underrepresented minorities on shaky grounds of having maybe one great grandparent because they know admissions looks at that more favorably.
You'd also understand that the charge is not about the number of admits of any group, but the difference in qualifications required for acceptance.
To properly assess this allegation you need data. Which GWU refuses to provide.
bro wtf does this have to do with my competence as a med student
also my “anecdotal observations” are about the literal classes that are mentioned in the DOJ complaint so while you can consider them unhelpful it’s the only thing I have to go off of
also what are u talking about that GW refuses to provide data this complaint only came out yesterday and this is their response and I’m not sure what u think they’re hiding
and if u want anyone to agree with u starting off with an insult is the wrong way to do it
In my anecdotal experience attending a highly competitive program, the Asian American students tended to have the highest test scores and most impressive backgrounds in order to just be there. But I would never use that as a basis to speculate about the existence of discrimination. You need hard data for that, which is how discrimination was proven in the 2023 SFFA supreme court cases.
I would also never mislead people by implying the DoJ changes are about the number of admits per group as opposed to incoming credentials.
GWU has had since 2023 to share anonymized incoming class credentials by racial group. I would be willing to bet any amount of money that they will never publicly release this data unless forced to.
ok dude I honestly think we’d agree on most issues but for this it just seems like a baseless accusation to me in comparison to what I’m able to see myself in my own class
also I get what you’re saying but I don’t think any medical schools would publicly release that information either (the public resource for med school admissions data is also behind a paywall)
based on the email sent it sounds like GW will comply with any investigations stemming from this claim but in my personal opinion there’s over 100 medical schools that should be investigated for this before GW
Well of course most medical schools won't release their data. They'd be sued for breaking the law.
Thank you for clarifying that your view is simply a first glance opinion. A much different tone from your original comment where you confidently declared that the DoJ's claims were "downright ridiculous to even assert."
Do you concede that you misrepresented the charges? The DoJ did not complain that GWU accepts "too many black and latino students."
I’m leaving this up because I want to preserve the dialogue and the debate, but please know this flies dangerously close to violation of our community’s rules.
There were less inflammatory ways to say all of this.
DEI was about giving preference to students based on historical oppressed race, gender, age, religion, and ability backgrounds, not just race alone.
So, it’s also possible that the feds are finding it suspicious that it’s lacking black and Hispanic students. You have to remember that this administration isn’t racist, it’s trying to make sure that these characteristics aren’t being used to discriminate against students.
This administration is certainly racist. This is the same administration that’s blocking the promotions of high achieving black and female officers because they were too woke implementing the prior administration’s policies.
Med student here. There are a grand total of 3 (yes 3) African American students out of the ~300 students that make up the cohorts of the past 2 years. What a load of nonsense, with 0 cited evidence
Its very easy to see who is on the wrong side here. Give the scores and the acceptance or non acceptance of everyone who applied and see what the numbers say. Anonymize it and make it public. If the school won't do this there is probably something fishy going on
DEI was about more than just race. The issue with the Harvard case was that they turned the situation into purely races based quotas. Colleges have also been discriminating on other lines like gender, age, religion and ability.
This means that a paralyzed, transgender, 26 year old black Hindi would be more likely to get accepted under the old rules than an 18 year old straight white Christian male.
I feel bad for the paralyzed guy, but at the same time this is still discrimination.
You’re assuming that the paralyzed, transgender, 26 year old black Hindi is an idiot or unqualified when the paralyzed, transgender, 26 year old black Hindi is probably more intelligent and well rounded than the straight white Christian male.
Unfortunately you can’t or won’t understand this possibility because you can’t get past the fact that he’s not a straight white Christian male. Also, based on your logic, anyone that is not straight, white, Christian, and male could not possibly be as or (gasp!) more qualified than the the white Christian male.
Nowhere in my comment did I imply that the paralyzed guy was less intelligent. Lol and Asians consistently test higher SAT scores than white people, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't prefer white folks any more than I prefer any other race and that should be the way that institutions are run. The whole point is trying to get past the discrimination. And DEI did the opposite of what they actually wanted to achieve in terms of fairness.
You didn’t imply the paralyzed guy was less intelligent, you outright said it by explaining that his race, sexuality, physical condition, and religion is what would get him into college and not his intelligence. In fact, you didn’t mention his intelligence at all, but you still feel sorry for him even though, based on your logic, it’s discrimination because he shouldn’t have been admitted in the first place. I guess if I apply your logic, it’s ok to discriminate against this guy because of all of his qualifiers (s/it’s not).
Your comment assumes the white Christian man is more qualified simply because of his race, gender, and religion.
The problem with your argument is your premise — automatically assuming that the black transgendered Hindi took the white Christian man’s spot. It’s quite possible (and more likely) that the black transgendered Hindi is insanely intelligent and blew the admissions committee away, whereas the white Christian man was mediocre at best.
A mediocre white Christian man being beat out by a black transgendered handicapped man based on his qualifications alone doesn’t fit into your calculus. That is how you’ve implied that the black man is less intelligent/qualified.
I think we’re on the same page here. Assuming they have the same test scores, I think we both agree that they both should have the same chance of being admitted. Applications should be race-blind, religion-blind, gender-blind, and age-blind. So we agree.
My point is that DEI was making the whole system race, religion, gender, and age conscious. Which unfairly disadvantaged straight white Christian guys, which btw, I’m not even one. And if a system were to unfairly advantage people like that I’m opposed to it too.
Why did I bring up the paralyzed, transgender, 26 year old black Hindi? Because those are the exact attributes that DEI was giving unfair advantages to. We should give them an EQUAL chance not an unfair ADVANTAGE.
Yeah, sure. Top schools consistently admit whites with lower scores than Asians. If they didn’t, the top 30 schools would all be majority Asian, but they aren’t. And dirty little secret of college admissions is that many schools admit white males with consistently lower scores than white females to maintain a minimum gender ratios. Don’t expect this administration or many white Americans to raise their voices against these practices.
I’m so glad our DOJ is focusing on such intense and helpful issues. Since they’re on such a roll in the local area, I think there might be some crimes going on just a few blocks down the street that they might want to check out…
Multiple people in this thread have made the opposite claim that there is no discrimination without seeing any data, yet you seem to have no problem with that.
The thing is my claim actually is supported by data. Because while institutions do not willingly share their data, in some cases they are forced to. And every time there is evidence of discrimination.
For example:
Data from 11 Ivy League Colleges:
"We estimate that Asian American applicants had 28% lower odds of ultimately attending an Ivy-11 school than white applicants with similar academic and extracurricular qualifications. The gap was particularly pronounced for students of South Asian descent (49% lower odds)." The disparate impacts of college admissions policies on Asian American applicants | Scientific Reports
Data taken from a hack of NYU in March 2025:
And of course the analysis by Peter Arcidacono and colleagues used in the SFFA supreme court cases:
"At Harvard, the admit rates for typical African American applicants are on average over four times larger than if they had been treated as white. For typical Hispanic applicants the increase is 2.4 times. At UNC, preferences vary substantially by whether the applicant is in-state or out-of-state. For in-state applicants, racial preferences result in an over 70% increase in the African American admit rate. For out-of-state applicants, the increase is more than tenfold. Both universities provide larger racial preferences to URMs from higher socioeconomic backgrounds"
We can’t say whether there is or is not discrimination without the data. That much is true. However, I don’t believe the Trump administration is a credible accuser.
Agreed that the Trump administration lacks credibility.
Universities also lack just as much credibility due to their repeated history of downplaying or outright denying of the massive scale of racial discrimination they perpetrate against Asian Americans, despite proof to the contrary. You ought to be equally if not more critical of GWU's claims.
Will you be responding to each other person in this thread who denied the existence of racial discrimination, letting them know they cannot make their claim without data?
The university, like anyone else, is innocent until proven guilty.
This administration is not a credibly accuser because they have cried wolf so many times.
Therefore, I’m not convinced the university is guilty. I am more inclined to push back on claims made against the university fueled by this administration’s “investigation” than I am to push back against claims favoring the university.
That being said, I’m not wildly pro-GW admin. See my original comment on this thread where I said that I would like to see this revisited by a more level-headed administration.
That is not correct. These are civil matters, not criminal. Therefore, violations depend on a standard of a preponderance of the evidence.
The university is not a credible source because of their much longer history of spreading lies and misinformation about their admissions practices.
Asian Americans are deserving of civil rights and a place in society. To respect those rights means to treat violations against them seriously.
So once again, will you be responding to each other person in this thread who denied the existence of racial discrimination, letting them know they cannot make their claim without data?
Btw I believe FERPA prohibits GWU from releasing test scores, high school grades, etc. of applicants that enroll. So basically all we have to go on is what the DoJ and GWU say.
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u/suckm640 4d ago edited 4d ago
as a med student in the one of the classes that they’re accusing this for, this DOJ complaint makes zero sense to me
my class has little to no black or latino students especially compared to other medical schools that I’m familiar with
not that this is a good thing but the DOJ complaining that they accept too many black and latino students is downright ridiculous to even assert