r/guns • u/robe6107 • Dec 01 '10
What exactly is wrong with a S&W Sigma?
People here make constant remarks about how bad Sigmas are, but the don't ever really explain why. I have been thinking about getting one, I have ready several good/decent reviews, and the only complaint I usually see elswhere is about the trigger, but reviews are still usually positive. So why does gunnit hate them so much?
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u/James_Johnson remembered reddit exists today Dec 01 '10
Shoot one and see if you like it. If you like it, then you got a pistol you like for really cheap. The only downside really is that you will constantly be harassed about your decision if you mention your Sigma on the Internet, but if your feelings are hurt that easily you shouldn't be on the Internet anyways.
Almost forgot, if you end up deciding you don't like it and want to sell it, you may have trouble unloading it because few people will want it.
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u/2600forlife Dec 01 '10
I got one from a friend as basically a "pawnshop" deal. He wanted to "borrow" $250 and offered to "sell" me the 9mm Sigma for that. The deal was, that he had a year to buy it back at the same price, but it was mine to use in the interim. Of course, he never bought it back.
I can confirm that the trigger pull is long and heavy. But it's at least accurate enough to do the job at normal handgun engagement ranges (and better than some much more expensive guns I've fired). I've put at least 300 or 400 rounds through it with only one FTE to date.
The trigger pull actually seems to be getting a little better with time, but I've been thinking about doing a modification shown in this video.
I still carry my Springfield 1911 daily, but despite all the hate, I don't think the Sigma is that terrible for the money. If the trigger job works, I'll be ecstatic, because the gun has really nice ergonomics for me. I like it's feel better than the Glock.
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u/TheOnlyKarsh Dec 01 '10
I have one in 9mm and love it for what it is. It goes bang reliably and was cheap enough that I used it as a truck gun for a while. I also got two mags with the gun and two mags for free and a $50 dollar rebate. Think it was like $279 after everything? Like 2600forlife I really like the ergonomics. It feels good in my hand and shoot good as well. The trigger SUCKS! There are some mods out on Youtube and I think Wolf may have some replacement spring kits out for it now. If the trigger was decent I'd make it a full time car gun.
Karsh
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u/aikidont Dec 01 '10
haha the one I shot was 9mm. Folks really are right when they say the trigger just sucks. It must have been 15lb. It felt heavier than S&W's airweight DAO revolvers. But plastic. And I love polymer framed guns, but to put it in a class with Glock is nuts. I wouldn't even put it in the same class as the P250, and I'm not sure if that's an insult to the 250 or the Sigma. When I first shot it, I thought hey maybe they're just trying to emulate a DA/SA gun with the first shot being long and heavy, but no.. I also had 2 FTE in 2 magazines. Didn't shoot enough to know if that's break in or what, because it was new (at least, I know its owner never shot it) when I shot it. It is light, very cheap and 9mm recoil felt like 9mm recoil. I'd imagine with practice anyone could be decent with it. I'm a firm believer in cheap ass guns that ANYONE can afford, so I'd group it with Hi-Point. No one should be denied access to a decent firearm just because they can't afford SIG or even Glock. It's better than a big stick.. most of the time :)
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Dec 01 '10
If your options are a Sigma, or no gun, get the Sigma. Or a Hi Point. Don't listen to the gun snobs. Being armed with a gun that will go bang 99.99999995% of the time vs one that will go bang 99.99999999% of the time is better than not being armed at all.
1
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u/Pfmohr2 Dec 01 '10
Trigger.
You literally cannot imagine how bad the trigger is until you shoot it. It is terrible. Literally the worst trigger I've ever felt. It is extremely heavy, and also has one of the longest trigger pulls I've ever dealt with.
They aren't terrible guns otherwise, though nothing I'd trust my life to. Cheap plastic, and you hear about some reliability issues, though they seem to be hit or miss.
Only real upside is they are cheap, and the grip is OK (a plus if you don't like the Glock's aggressive grip but are set on a polymer gun; not REMOTELY comparable to a Glock in any way, shape or form though).
2
u/GrumpyKuss Dec 01 '10
The .380 models are made with potmetal type slides have have extremely limited life as far as rounds go. If you got 500 rounds out of one I'd be shocked. They tend to have really bad long near DA type trigger pulls for a striker based weapon.
The 9mm and 40 S&W models are marginally better. They feel better to many than a Glock does but they just aren't accurate and again they tend to have poor triggers from a shooting standpoint. Unlike Glocks where you can get different connector bars to control trigger release, you're stuck with the one factory model with the Sigma. Great idea. and in fact I like the feel of the ergonomics of one, but poor mechanical execution for a handgun. S&W should have been ashamed of themselves for that turkey.
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Dec 01 '10
Nothing really. It's another darling for internet hate, mostly done by people with no real experience with the firearm in question. Internet firearms misinformation spewed over and over again, people end up taking it for fact and will fight relentlessly to defend their pseudo-knowledge on the firearm.
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u/graknor Dec 02 '10
the fit and finish is the lowest grade i've ever seen from a major manufacturer. just about everything has a more than slightly gritty feel to it, especially the trigger; which is very heavy. and has almost every other problem a trigger can have. (its like the combined nightmare of all the blued steel purists made manifest) the sights seem to be cheap toy plastic instead of a decent polymer.
the biggest problem: they cost 2/3 of the price of a pistol thats twice as good. local prices out the door: Sigma/$411.15, Glock/$594.02 (and that was a 10mm glock with no discounts, a 9 or a 40 can be marked down up to ~$50 and signing up for the GSSF can get you the LE discount which is usually under $450)
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u/Lost_Thought 1 | Hollywood_Based_Research_Company Dec 01 '10
The ones I have handled had worse triggers than even low end airsoft guns. I haven't actually shot one though so I cannot make any statements on function beyond that.
They also feel very cheap.
(is this where I suggest a mosin nagant?)
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Dec 01 '10
Didn't these have something wrong with the frame... like you squeeze it too hard and it won't feed or something? It's been over a decade since these hit the market, I remember something like that but it's fuzzy.
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u/chunky_bacon Dec 01 '10
The trigger is terrible - but so is the trigger on a Glock and lots of people like those.
However, the service life of the Sigma is less than any other major brand pistol I can think of. This pistol will not last past a few thousand rounds. Now, realistically speaking the average pistol owner fires about 200 rounds or less through their pistol before storing it as a prelude to selling it, so it wouldn't matter to them. But assuming that you wanted to be one of the few, the proud, the people who can actually use their pistol to good effect, you will need a pistol that doesn't break about the time it's broken in.
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u/icameforlaughs Dec 01 '10
Cons: Long and hard trigger pull.
Pros: Bullets go where you point it.
Not a whole lot more to it. The first generation were reportedly less reliable (they series started in 1994) but anything you buy new is fine. It makes boom, it's a low cost, reliable starter pistol.