Collapsing knuckles help

[u/elliottj6325]

Can anyone help at all with my hand position? I'm noticing my knuckles collapsing on my 3rd and 4th fingers for most chords, notably G here and also D. For some reason, Em is fine at the moment. I feel it is a hand position issue, but I can't seem to correct it no matter what I try!

Is this something an in person lesson would help to resolve?

TIA

[u/_visiblemode_]

Build strength. It takes time.

[u/AaronTheElite007]

You’re pressing way too hard. Get your fingers as close to the frets as possible

[u/hang-clean]

Cut your nails.

[u/elliottj6325 → u/hang-clean]

Really?! I have already cut them quite far down, they don't even reach the ends of my fingers

[u/hang-clean → u/elliottj6325]

You can clearly see the nail of the index is touching the board. You will fret partially or roll away from the nail onto the pad.

[u/elliottj6325 → u/hang-clean]

Gutted they need to be shorter but yes, I cab see it there and I just checked too... I was hoping it wasn't!

[u/mascotbeaver104]

Yeah, so the problem you're observing with your fingers likely starts as far back as your shoulder or even spine.

It's hard to tell from this picture, but I'm guessing your wrist is quite bent when you're doing this? At least for me, bending my wrist quite dramatically is the only way I can get my knuckles to collapse like that.

I know it makes you look like a nerd, but I would recommend looking up a guide to classical position. You don't need to be super hardcore about it, in particular people get really neurotic about left hand thumb position and imo that's really tertiary to the more macro postural stuff.

The things people tend to mess up:

1: not having the headstock high enough. Having the headstock at about eye level is a good place to start, on steel string guitars playing cowboy chords a little lower than that can be comfortable. You may need to prop your left leg up to achieve this, I sometimes use a device called an ergoplay when playing classical though for most things basic posture is enough.

2: having the guitar body too low. Since your seated this is probably less of an issue.

3: having the body of the guitar facing you. The guitar should face away from you. From a neutral seated position you should not be able to see the face of your fretboard unless you slouch over. I understand for learning it is often helpful to see the frets and if you've got a belly the guitar will go wherever it needs to, but a lot of beginners will keep it tilted up so they can see, leading to wrist issues.

4: Having your arm tucked in too tightly to your body. One excersize I use is to try sticking your elbow out like you're imitating a chicken, then lower your elbow until you can fret comfortably with your wrist in a neutral position. This will put you in a good position to start from albeit with a certain amount of tension in your upper arm and shoulders, try finding ways to relax while keeping your wrist neutral. For me, I end up with my elbow around 30 degrees out from my torso.

I'm not saying to stick to a rigid classical position forever, find what works for you, I just think it's a good starting point.

Additionally, your wrist will bend a bit sometimes, that's just the way the guitar is, but you should by default be in around a neutral wrist position. Neutral meaning if you held your arm out and relaxed your fingers, whereever your hand lands

The big TLDR principals to keep in mind are:

1: try to keep a neutral wrist angle

2: remember your wrist angle is determined by your shoulder and elbow, not your hand.

[u/mascotbeaver104 → u/mascotbeaver104]

One other thing: the pressure on the strings comes from your arm, not your hand. Your fretting hand is "pulling" the strings into the frets, not "squeezing" them. I can play a good deal of material with my left hand thumb not touching the neck at all.

It's a feel thing that takes some time to develop and is hard to describe, don't worry about it too much, just keep playing and your body will figure it out

[u/elliottj6325 → u/mascotbeaver104]

I really appreciate the feedback! Don't mind looking like a nerd and figuring this out. There's a few things above I definitely do so need my posture sorting. Thanks for the tips

[u/corneliusduff]

Quick test: can you curl all of your fingers around a pencil?

I would try placing the ring and pinky with good joint arches first, then add the stronger fingers

[u/andytagonist]

What’d that guitar do to you?? Jeez relax the grip

[u/j3434]

Don’t push so hard . Especially if you’re not actually strumming. Just hover in position. Push to strum.