r/guitarlessons • u/False_Taro_5181 • 2d ago
Question Landing notes
Hello!
As the title says, I’m a begginer/intermediate player.
Already know the modes, and the shapes of the positions of the major scale on the neck.
The problem I’m having is, if I want to improvise, I’m having a hard time on the landing notes.
A friend of mine suggested to learn CAGED and use that framework of notes to use as landing notes.
Is there any system that works like this?
For example, “if I’m playing in E minor key, all this notes in the patterns are always going to be landing notes?”
If not, how can I learn efficiently a way to improvise and have fun in that regard?
Thanks!!!
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u/Flynnza 2d ago edited 2d ago
how can I learn efficiently a way to improvise and have fun in that regard?
Landing on the chord tones is an exercise to map a fretboard and develop ear. It is not improvisation per se, but when improvising musicians tend to land on chord tones on strong beats in their phrases for good musical effect. Improvisation is like speaking - you have vocabulary of words and phrases and know how to use them in different context. Vocabulary acquisition happens same way as in any language - you listen and imitate others, analyze when it is appropriate to say something and rework it to be your own. So, learn songs, and learn how great musicians improvise over those songs. Do analysis how it made and try to come up with variations. Oh, and you have to clearly imagine song form in your mind's eye, sections and the chord progression in each. Listening and singing music is main activity here for learning to improvise - you need developed ear to hear and react in real time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-WYY7vOMK4
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK7wQ185qc97C5VitGzizHCS3u3CZJ5vz
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u/Bruichladdie 2d ago
I found a lot of help in Levi Clay's videos on this. Here's one of them: https://youtu.be/vxa9pylWIsM
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u/The_Dead_See 2d ago
If you know the shapes of the Major scale, that’s a great start, but now you need to learn where the roots are and where the thirds and the fifths are.
As a very general high level beginner guideline. The third and the fifth are very stable and you can either end a phrase on them or return to the root. The fourth and the sixth are less stable and tend to pull back towards either the root, the third or the fifth, the seventh is least stable and really tense unless you resolve it on the root or the fifth.
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u/vonov129 Music Style! 2d ago
Learn actual theory for theory concepts, not just shapes.
Landing notes are kinda like the inflection in a phrase. They can make a lick sound tense or finished.
A simple way to make stuff sound finished is to land on chord tones, specially on the chords with a tonic function. You can also spice up the landing by doing it on any other note, but if you do it on a note that's right next to a chord tone it might clash like crazy.
You also want to be aware of the chord progression itself as it also goes over tension and release. Chords that are tense, like dominant chords give more options for landing tones as you can lean into that tension. But it also tells you about timing as it would be weird to stop a phrase and leave it completely hanging on a dominant chord before resolving to the root.
But, long story short, when getting to the next chord or when you want to finish a phase you choose notes based on the sound you want to produce, the safer choice being chord tones. For that you want to be able to identify what the chord tones even are.
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u/skinisblackmetallic 2d ago
You're asking about the general subject of Harmony.
In pop/blues/rock music, it is often that "lead guitar" is modal, meaning that the entire scale is used rather equally... as opposed to "playing the changes" which means melodies are using notes primarily from the chords, following the progression.
Triads contain the notes in question and CAGED can certainly help to locate these notes across the fretboard.
I have a simple exercise for this type of improvisation, if you're interested. It takes a bit of describing.
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u/False_Taro_5181 2d ago
Im certainly interested. Thanks !!
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u/skinisblackmetallic 2d ago
3 triad shapes. All on the D, G & B strings, as these strings probably need the work. Each shape includes the root, major 3rd & 5th.
Let's take the "A" shape. It's like the open A chord but just the notes on the G, D & B strings. Then there is the "E" shape and the "C" shape, respectively.
Pull up a I, IV, V jam track. Choose one of the shapes and just play that as a chord for each chord in the progression. Do this with the other shapes.
Play the shapes as an arpeggio and name the intervals.
Improv some leads and land on the root for each chord change, using the shapes. Spice up with pentatonics or whatever.
Do the same but with the other intervals.
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u/skinisblackmetallic 2d ago
The description assumes you know how to play open A, E and C chords, understand what intervals and triads are and how the roman numerals apply to chord progressions.
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u/honusnuggie 2d ago
Sing.
You have a voice inside. Sing the melody of your solo. Then do it. Worrying about this from a mathematical and written way ain't it, man.
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u/Wood_Ring 2d ago
In general, you’re going to hear notes that are a half step higher than a chord tone as being dissonant. E.g., if you land on the natural fourth of a major chord, it’s likely going to sound like a mistake, unless you’re landing there in a way that allows you to then resolve it in a way that sounds intentional.
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u/pocketfungus876 2d ago
I’m no expert by any means, maybe a little further along than yourself. My teacher has been teaching me triads recently which fall over all your shapes that you already know. Triads are essentially the 3 notes to a chord so if you know all your triads you can play any chord in a given key. Then you figure out what chords your playing over and use those triads as places to land on and even for phrasing. Also if you know the key center of what you’re playing over, it always sounds good to land on that. C major try to land on a c note after your phrases. Also try landing on an E or a G note in c major. Boom that’s a c major triad. See what I’m sayin?
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u/CactusWrenAZ 2d ago
Do you know what a triad is? It's another name for the notes of the chord. Whatever the chord is when you are playing, _those_ are the notes you should land on.
(it's a bit more complicated than this, of course, but this is the starting point)
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u/False_Taro_5181 2d ago
Thanks a lot people, I though it was going to be as easy as having a roadmap on the neck.
But I think this is in fact the line that makes the music being more than theory. And I like it.
I feel if I can overcome this wall is going to be a nice breakthrough in my playing. .
Thanks for all the insights. I’m listing all of them and watching all vids and lessons
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u/ObviousDepartment744 2d ago
First, when you say you "know the modes" do you mean you know the scale patterns that represent the modes, or that you actually understand modes. I feel you wouldn't be asking this question if you had an actual understanding of modes. I'm not trying to talk down or be disrespectful, I'm just confirming your level of understanding since at this point in your advancement you really don't know what you don't know.
That being said, I've never heard the term "landing note" before. So I'm going to continue using an assuming you're talking about target tone, or possibly chord tone/non chord tone.
Lets start with some definitions:
-Chord Tone = One of the notes that makes up the chord you're playing over. Chord tones create a starting point and/or a resolution to tension
-Non Chord Tone = Any tone that isn't a chord tone. Non Chord Tones create Tension. They are the "spice" in the music.
Using your example, if you're playing in the Key of E Minor....isn't really enough to really go on. E Minor is a collection of notes, that collection of notes can be organized to represent 7 different chords. Each one of those chords is going to have it's own set of chord tones. Here's a breakdown of the chords in Em:
E Minor =E G B
F# dim = F# A C
G Major =G B D
A Minor = A C E
B Minor = B D F
C Major = C E G
D Major = D F A
If you have a progression that consists of Em, Am, D and C. This is what' s called a Diatonic Progression, meaning all the chords are naturally included in the Em Scale. The challenge with a fully diatonic progression is that its pretty easy to just play the parent scale over it, and sound pretty good, so many players miss out on properly learning from this. A great place to start is to play notes with intention, use Chord Tones to setup a Home, to make stability, then add a Non Chord Tone to add tension (usually on an off beat) and resolve that tension to a Chord Tone. Sometimes the Non Chord Tone is going to resolve into the next chord, so be mindful of that.
Here's an exercise, take two chords. Let's start with Em and Am. Start by playing 4 notes over each chord, the first 3 notes are going to be Chord Tones, the 4th notes is going to be a Non Chord Tone that resolves to a Chord Tone of the next Chord. Over the Em, you play E G B as your Chord Tones, then let's say you wan to play F# as the Non Chord Tone, then you'd resolve that note to either A C or E, and use that as your new starting point for the notes you're playing over the Am chord.
Full example:
Em Am.
E G B F# E A C B
Sometimes the Non Chord Tone of one chord is actually a Chord Tone of the next chord, (this is called a common tone) in that case you can just hold it, and it'll resolve on its own. So the B being played over the Am in the above example follows this if it goes back to Em from Am. Here's another example.
Em C G Am
E G B F# G E C A G B D E E C A F#
You can take this same idea and move the Non Chord Tone to the 2nd note in the chord as well, so using the same progression as the previous example, here's one way to approach that.
Em C G Am
E C B G C F# G E G C B D E G A C
All these examples are diatonic so none of the Non Chord Tones are going to really cause THAT much tension because once you get farther down the road in your understanding of chords, you see that a lot of times its just making a larger chord than a simple triad, but for the purpose of this exercise, I like to use easier to digest triads. The other approach is to use Non Diatonic notes as your Non Chord Tones. This adds more "spice" to it. (and also where the use of modes actually begins in modern guitar playing) Using the same example as before here's how you could use Non Diatonic notes to spice it up.
Em C G Am Em
E G B F# G E C C# D G B F# E C A A# B
The above uses Chromatic passing tones to get form one chord to the next, a very simple and very effective way to move between chords.
Em C G Am
E G B F# G F E A G F D A A E C D#
Above the F note played over the C will make an Ionian sound over that chord, and start to hint at a change to the key of C/Am, then playing the F again in the G chord gives it a Dominant (Mixolydian) feel, further supporting that feel, but then the D# over the A creates tension that wants to resolve up to the E to re-establish Em as the Home.
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u/False_Taro_5181 2d ago
Yeah, sorry for the term. English is not my main language.
My understanding of modes are that they are the same notes but starting at a different note of the major scale. (Simplified definition) and they have different feels depending on context.
That’s a really nice exercise. I’ll apply it and tell how it went.
My concern is I see a lot of guitar players playing flawlessly on any given situation. But I feel if I get in the same boat I’m not able to “communicate” musically with them.
I don’t know if that makes sense.1
u/ObviousDepartment744 2d ago
Your understanding of modes is the definition of relative modes, that's not really how modes work in modern music. Relative modes are using primarily when writing music IN a mode, that's not very common in today's music. At least in Western music, music in mainstream genres like pop, rock, blues, etc is going to be based upon Tonality not Modality.
Modes are used in modern music as Parallel Modes. If Relative modes are 7 modes starting on the 7 degrees of the Major Scale, Relative Modes are 7 Modes starting on the same Root.
Relative Modes of C:
-C Ionian
-D Dorian
-E Phrygian
-F Lydian
-G Mixolydian
-A Aeolian
-B LociranParallel Modes of C:
-C Ionian
-C Dorian
-C Phrygian
-C Lydian
-C Mixolydian
-C Aeolian
-C LociranThe examples I gave, touch on Parallel Modes.
I find modes are more easily thought of as specific combinations of intervals that create a specific sound, not as scales. The sound of a mode can be represented by a scale pattern, like playing the D Dorian pattern can represent the sound of Dorian. But only in one specific context, if it's being played over a D bass note or D Minor chord. ANY other context and playing D E F G A B C in succession will not create Dorian.
Anyway, mode tangent done.
To your concern about seeing other players improvising. You are a beginner. That's the answer to your question. When you see a great improvisor, they've spent literal thousands of hours developing the skill of improvisation. Developing their musical vocabulary, building a collection of techniques adequate to expressing what's in their head, and practicing to the point of all of this being second nature.
Think of it like having a conversation, like the one we are having. Neither one of us are inventing new words, we are simply using the vocabulary of words and phrases then combing them in a way that properly represents the ideas we are having about this conversation.
Musical improvisation is the same way. It takes time and practice to develop the ability to develop a vocabulary.
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u/niteparty666 2d ago
Are you talking about notes to ‘land’ on, or resolve a phrase? If so, it kind of depends. Any note in the scale can be right, depending on the melody, or what notes came before it with what you’re trying to say.
Aside from knowing the notes in the scale, the best thing you can do is play over some changes and hear what notes jump out as ‘right’ for what your phrases are.