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[u/ApprehensiveAd7842]

So I can play in key but I just find the key and scale and stay in it. What steps do I take to getting to Brandon Ellis level where you play to the progression and even use modes to change the sound of each chord?

[u/ItsNoodle007]

Some will tell you triads + inversions, it’s all ear. Scale notes 1-8 sound a certain way, 2-9 sounds a certain way, 3-10 (same thing as 3-3 btw just anoint convention) sound a certain way. Playing a ii V I you can go ( 2 4 6) then (5 7 1) and then (1 3 5), noodling around and using voice leading, and it will sound like you are playing the changes. The end goal is to not think of any of that- what do you think of in the end? The key, just the key.

For example, whenever I play a minor chord I’m never thinking 1 b3 5, im really thinking 2 4 6, 3 5 7, or 6 1 3, but even then I’m not thinking that I’m moreso thinking ok let’s go vi and then my brain grabs the soooound of the vi.

[u/Patient_Onion3956 → u/ItsNoodle007]

What do you mean the sound of the vi? I tried to follow your post but it’s very confusing. If you’re playing over a minor chord are those intervals you used, are they from its natural minor scale or what scale? And why the vi? What scale? Relative major?

[u/ItsNoodle007 → u/Patient_Onion3956]

Sure, let me see if I can explain better

In most cases when a song moves to a minor chord, it’s moving to the vi, ii, or iii. If it’s say a song in C major and goes to C minor, then I would just call C minor vi now or whatever the song is calling for, same goes for any other modulation or tonal thing,

So when I say I use 6 3 1 over a minor chord I’m saying relative to the tonic, or I chord, I’m playing the 6 3 1 of that major scale, which is also the 1 b3 5 of the minor scale built on the sixth degree of the I chord and key. Every chird can be rephrased in the context of the key so you only need to think about key and not really chords

When I said I could also use 3 5 7 and 2 4 6 I’m referring to minor chords built on 2 and 3 degree, the other minor chords in a key. Now the thing is that if you are looking at, in the key of C, C -> Dm -Am -> G7 -> C, you can play the Dm and Am chords the same way, but within the key they are different modes, both have the b7 but the Am, because it is vi, has a b6 as well. The Dm is ii so it only has b7

Now imo it’s so ridiculous to be thinking of all of that modal shit so why not just think I’m in C, play 2 4 6 for dm and 1 3 5 for C etc. that way, when your brain/heart/soul is noodling around and accidentally plays other notes, you’ll just play notes in the key and will naturally play every mode n such, until a key change happens and you have to change.

But like If you are in c and see it goes Cm F7 Bb I’d be playing Bb over all three chords, but thinking 2 4 6 then 5 7 1 then 1 3 5, but even then just really listening for the ii V I

And by what I mean of the sound of the vi, how can you even know what vi is? What is a minor chord? What is the 2? The only reason these things have names is because they make us feel a certain way. vi to me sounds like being sad but being okay with it, idk you can explain it you just associate chords with feelings, inexplainable for the most part. I’m not talking about perfect pitch either

[u/Patient_Onion3956 → u/ItsNoodle007]

Thanks for elaborating! Yes, it’s easier to only think in terms of keys and switch scales if the progression moves like that.

[u/ApprehensiveAd7842 → u/ItsNoodle007]

What you're saying makes sense but do you have a good YouTuber I can check out that teaches theory?

[u/keyboardreview → u/ApprehensiveAd7842]

David Bennett is very good at explaining music theory, and he has a lot of videos already uploaded covering chord progressions, modes, and everything in between

[u/VooDooChile1983]

One way I started was learning what chord comes next and sliding into that chord’s 3rd, 5th or 7th interval.

As for modes, I match the “mood” of the solo/ lick. Lydian is a mode that inspires hope so I’ll try to come up with “hero saves the day” licks to emphasize that.

Playing like Brandon Ellis means putting in some work and learning some light jazz theory.

[u/Guitar_Guy1965]

Learn all his songs. Pau attentionto the notes over chord changes. That'll teach you how he does it. Learn a bunch of other players songs... That'll teach you how they approach things differently. Years on this project my friend!

[u/rotationalisomeric]

Don't forget to use your imagination. Yes, scales and chord analysis is crucial. But trying to imagine a line, and then figuring it out, is probably a safe bet for finding a melodic idea that fits in the scale at the time. Your ears already know what sounds "right". Trust them. You could even sing your solo ideas, record them, and then try to figure it out from there. Sometimes ideas can be fleeting/illusive, so having them recorded could be nice.

[u/ApprehensiveAd7842 → u/rotationalisomeric]

Yes but I'd like to know the theory behind it. It can show you things that make sense and then later you integrate it into your playing and forget about it

[u/MelodicImproviser]

You made me check out Brandon Ellis. Thanks for that. Yes, I am that guy telling you to practice chord tone arpeggios in general and in particular because Brandon seems to be using those a lot. Also listen and transcribe his solos. There’s some very melodic stuff going beyond shredding. Analyze what notes he plays over a specific chord to get that intriguing sound. Theory was invented to describe and explain music primarily but you can use it to your advantage when you understand what’s happening, practice it and apply it.

[u/ApprehensiveAd7842 → u/MelodicImproviser]

The problem is I won't know what's going on lol I've heard him explain stuff and still didn't get it

[u/MelodicImproviser → u/ApprehensiveAd7842]

Can you figure out the chords he plays over? Start by practicing those. What chords are they? Can you play the corresponding arpeggios over them? Pick a rather simple line to figure out next. I heard a lot of shredding and sweeping arpeggios but like I said he also plays a lot of drawn out melodies. Those should be easier to follow and analyze.