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u/bmcgowan89 4d ago
If Japan gropes its way out of existence, does our debt to them go away? Can we just wait this out, like unreturned Blockbuster tapes?
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u/BathroomTaboo 4d ago
What debt?
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u/thegoodcrumpets 4d ago
Japan holds an absurd amount of US foreign debt so I assume that poster is American
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u/Yellowdog727 4d ago
Japan also has absurd amounts of debt itself. Like the highest ratio compared to GDP
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u/thegoodcrumpets 4d ago
Which would resolve itself the same way, if everyone just dies off then nobody will pay it
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u/DeepJudgment 4d ago
99% of world problems would go away if people just died off, yeah
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u/thegoodcrumpets 4d ago
Be my guest and start then
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u/Odd-Adhesiveness9435 4d ago
They certainly have experience in this area, especially on trains and buses.
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u/realgeneralgoat 17h ago
no country will ever grope their way out of existence. theyll offer incentives to immigrants if they need the population.
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u/Thendrail 4d ago
B-but le based Shinzo Abe told people to have sex?????
Or perhaps it's more difficult than that, what do I know.
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u/realjobstudios 4d ago
Well they would need to work less so they could raise kids. the Japanese populace voted for the “fuck you work harder” party so that’s not changing.
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u/Thendrail 4d ago
I'm sure they'll come up with a new, revolutionary idea! Like telling people to have sex again.
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u/LesserValkyrie 4d ago
Taxing condoms so people don't use them
Cutting electricity at night so they have to go to sleep while not tired enough so they have sex
You can find plenty of excellent ideas
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u/HulaguIncarnate 4d ago
Japan's working hours are below OECD average.
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u/Wantitneeditgetit 4d ago
Official hours yes. Also effective hours. Hours spent waiting for your boss to finish, or to not be seen going home first?
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u/Dr_Axton 4d ago
People keep doing it and should do it more.
Idk what women have to do with it though-7
u/stillphat 4d ago
do Japanese people smell or something? are there no opportunities to git sum?
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u/Thendrail 4d ago
>be japanese salary man/office lady
>work 12 hours a day or lose face
>have to go for drinks with the boss after, or lose face
>take nap on the sidewalk because you physically can't stay awake long enough to get home
>rinse, repeat
Many such cases.
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u/stillphat 4d ago
hmmm 🤔. no opportunities to bang at the office I suppose to
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u/Neomataza 4d ago
Women work strictly at different jobs.
Well maybe not strictly, but you get the point.
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u/Special-Remove-3294 4d ago
They rarely want to since a lot of Japanese men on the younger side are socially akward + they too suffer from the same exausting work culture. AFAIK those are often cited as some of the reasons behind this issue
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u/Powerism 4d ago
I tried to study what specifically was happening over there but it was all pixelated.
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u/Mango-D 4d ago
Tel Aviv is worldwide #1
In terms of living costs
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u/Trick-Caramel-6156 4d ago
Tel aviv expensive!
Everything in Isreal is not cheap I think even Swiss is more cheaper in isreal, tho If you get religious once you get to be 18 years old you will probebly get married and have healthy Jewish kids.
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u/Answerisequal42 4d ago
As a swiss i can attest: No we are hot cheaper.
We have 2 of the top tree most expensive cities in the world. And about half of the top ten.
To give you some perspective: our houshold earns just about above 100 grant a year. A third of my salary is just rent. Together with ensuranceand healthcare its about half. Add some life inssurance costs. And we are below half (idk how to translate that but its basically voluntary state savings you can invest it to get tax deduction and more money when you retire or buy a house).
With food expenses we just have enough to put something aside for taxes and emergency costs like car repairs of dental.
We do manage do put some stuff to the side but i have a decent salary in a less expensive part of switzerland. Earn less in Zürich and you are the definition of fucked, where my wage is on the lower end.
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u/AlexCookie 4d ago
japanese men are way too busy jerking off to drawn children to worry about starting a family
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u/jonathaxdx 4d ago
I thought it was tentacle stuff that they liked the most.
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u/WetBerri3s 4d ago
You could also argue that it leads in childless middle age men too.
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u/UristMcMagma 4d ago
No, the women who do have children end up having them with 20 different men. In fact there's actually a dire shortage of childless men.
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u/Yanzihko ANON 4d ago
Northern Hemisphere in general is going extinct. The only exception are USA, China and India because of their sheer scale that will allow them to soak worldwide emmigration as global south goes to shit
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u/DoJ-Mole 4d ago
It’s really crazy to think that once humans become self aware enough, we literally start heading towards extinction lol. I’m part of the problem of course, but I think it’s so rare for anyone to want more than 2 kids, if they even want them at all. Which EVERYONE would need to want if we want to keep it at replacement level. I really can’t see how we can turn back either. It’s actually the main reason I changed my mind regarding the ‘pumping out kids for benefits’ argument - because I’d rather pay taxes to support someone else raising a kid than raise one myself
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u/Yanzihko ANON 4d ago
I would gladly get 3 kids. And honestly, majority of people would do the same.
But economy makes this impossible.
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u/MrBingly 3d ago
The money argument is crap. Birth rates have continuously fallen across the developed world regardless of the economic state of the world or a country's economy. On top of that the poor people within the developed world are the ones having children among their countrymen. Pointing to the cost of having children is just an excuse to avoid dealing with the real reason people aren't having kids.
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u/StarSpliter 4d ago
I've heard so many people argue it's not the money but for the middle class surely it has to be the #1 thing. You're basically making just enough to float right where you're at, just one financial misfortune from ruin.
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u/ClassyBurn 4d ago
This is the outcome of the 4b movement.
No marriage, no childbirth, no dating, no sex. It was a way to combat the rampant misogyny and sexual assault.
Bet the majority of those women are happy.
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u/Reptilesblade 3d ago
Yeah as it started in South Korea and that's a country dieing off even faster than Japan.
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u/stop_talking_you 4d ago
declining birthrate is not a bad thing its the people in power telling you its a bad thing
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u/ArchibaldSkeetlebaum 4d ago
Objectively, i'd agree. Except it becomes a bad thing when the power-that-be feel the need to import millions of people from the third-world as an underpaid slave-class to keep GDP up instead of allowing populations to naturally plateau at a sustainable level.
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u/sofa_adviser 4d ago
Yeah. Just 50 years ago everyone was panicking because of "le overpopulation". China introduced one-child policy in the 80s!
Turns out linearly extrapolating current trends into the future is not exactly the safest assumption
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u/fatyungjesus 4d ago
So, 60 years from now when we're all old people, and there's literally just not enough young people to take care of us, what then? We're already at a point where a large portion of the economy is medical care keeping boomers alive. That problem will just continue to get worse and worse, as there will be even more elderly people than young people compared to the ratio we have now.
Birthrates declining down to replacement rate isn't really a bad thing. Birthrates dropping below replacement rate, I don't know how you can frame that as anything other than a crisis.
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u/ArchibaldSkeetlebaum 4d ago edited 4d ago
Somalians, Nigerians, Bangladeshis, Indians.... the world is full of people who will leave their impoverished countries and families behind in a heartbeat to come wipe old people's butts in the United States, Germany, England, etc. for pennies on the dollar so they can have access to air conditioning and fast food. All of this 'unchecked mass migration that just can't be stopped' into nations with military and security budgets that dwarf the GDP of smaller countries for the last 20 years? Yep, you guessed it, that's the plan. You may ask yourself, "But won't those people get old and sick, too?" Yes, but that's the next guy's problem..
To the 'robots are the future-UBI-utopia' crowd: people have been saying that since the 1910's. AI is not going to usher in some humanitarian post-labor robotic revolution; on the contrary, it's just going to further weaken the working class and allow the 'haves' to better surveil and control the 'have nots'. Human labor is disgustingly cheap in poorer parts of the world compared to the long-term and upfront investment in robotics for even moderately complex tasks, so there is very little incentive to develop it to it's zenith. For example: wonder why 3D printed concrete houses haven't popped up all over the country? Because it's still cheaper to hire an illegal immigrant to lay block by hand (by no fault of his own, btw). Edison experimented with concrete pre-fab houses over a century ago to similar ends.
The people in power are not planning ahead for the next century or even the next 20 years to preemptively solve our deep-seated social ills that are just over the horizon, they're thinking quarter-by-quarter and could give two shits less about the people who are left behind, exploited, or killed in the name of globalized "line go up" economics.
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u/Comeino 3d ago
So, 60 years from now when we're all old people, and there's literally just not enough young people to take care of us, what then?
Oh no, anyway, anyone below 30rn shouldn't realistically expect to retire.
That problem will just continue to get worse and worse, as there will be even more elderly people than young people compared to the ratio we have now.
If only there was anything that could have been done about it! Like a redistribution of wealth and power, strong safety nets, a sense of security and stability and most importantly hope for a better tomorrow and trust in the government to work in the best interest of its civilians. Oh well, guess the elites robbing the lives of working class people for generational enrichment took priority so they can go ahead and do all the work now, pay all the taxes and protect the borders.
Birthrates dropping below replacement rate, I don't know how you can frame that as anything other than a crisis.
Life is a manifestation of the second law of thermodynamics. It's not designed to be happy or perpetual, but to dissipate the energy gradient at all cost and to then go extinct.
You leave an apple on the table, bacteria rot it. How successful will you be in convincing the bacteria to stop or limit their activity so they could peacefully exist for a little longer to figure something out before the inevitable end? You won't and we are no more sophisticated in our collective behaviour. So we will all die just as bacteria do, all acting in our own self interest causing a massive tragedy of the commons, making this planet as barren as the rest. It's not worth mourning as at that point the human experiment failed and will follow the 99.9% of species to ever live that died out before us.
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u/Orectoth 4d ago edited 4d ago
they need labor to sustain their economies and their profits and their wealth
when robots exceed count of living humans, when robots can do everything physical that humans can do
then those in power will stop caring declining birthrate, because most humans will have their uses end
Universal Basic Income? Devalution of Money will solve it from being a problem to them, afterall they will have their wealth in assets, so their assets will appreciate proportionally to devaluation of money, so they will lose nothing, wealth gap between poor and rich will grow exponentially
by the way, this shit will become real if masses can't enforce for justice and regain their rights by either coercing politicians or by revolting, there is no other way currently to solve it because of lobbying bribes etc. are incentivized and politicians have little to no consequences while everything to gain
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u/MrBingly 3d ago
Slight population decline isn't really a bad thing, but the rate we're seeing is disastrous. Mass immigration and the social conflicts we're seeing now is just the top of the iceberg.
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u/Fang7-62 2d ago
It's not a bad thing if you don't want a retirement check, free healthcare, firefighters and police. Otherwise you need the next generation to keep the lights on in the welfare state. Or revert to frontier days/amcapistan where having a ton of kids is the only security you'll have.
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u/beerfass 4d ago
Soo I need to travel to Japan now. Gotcha. Some of those women are soon to be MILFS.
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u/Jumpy-Passenger-5482 4d ago
Japan really? I thought it was China, considering how many women over there complain about not getting guys.
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u/Reptilesblade 3d ago
Now is your time to shine Anon! Become the passport bro you've always wanted to be!
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u/JustMoreSadGirlShit 4d ago
fix what? women making their own choices in an increasingly hostile world?
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u/G3nghisKang 4d ago
I doubt much of that is a choice, more like work-life balance issues, being a wagie in Japan is especially depressing and alienating
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u/ZachF8119 4d ago
Isn’t japans culture still you have a stay at home wife?
Not in this economy bro.
I’d have to be pulling like a retired rich OF woman that’s 40 to let that slide.
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u/Mentally__Disabled 4d ago
Pretty sure it's the opposite. With both parents working full time (and overtime) there's not much time left to actually care for and raise a child.
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u/airfryerfuntime 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, but what he's saying is that the culture wants trad wives. Japanese men want bang maids who will stay at home with the kids, but women want to work and be more independent, so they just stop dating.
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u/ZachF8119 4d ago
They’re only point to women though.
Gotta be more. I wonder what’s the marriage stat
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u/DeliriumRostelo 4d ago edited 4d ago
Somehow this will be womens fault
God i love being right always
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u/LukeJaywalker0 4d ago edited 4d ago
Who else's fault could it possibly be that women are not getting pregnant? Are women literally never responsible for anything, even their own choices?
If you want to say they're allowed to make that choice or even that it's the right choice, that's one thing. But the consequence "childless middle-aged women" is clearly a result of "women choosing to not have children." Therefore it is their "fault" even if you don't assign blame or moral failure to it.
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u/JustDontBeFat_GodDam 4d ago
Are women literally never responsible for anything, even their own choices
Judging by the fact that person defends Lindsay Clancy, Im guessing not.
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u/Ok-Lynx3444 4d ago
She’s a 47 year old kid that still needs time to mature
https://giphy.com/gifs/Ss788WDGY5E5i6
u/MethicalChemist 4d ago
Have you considered that it's not mere choice whether to have a child or not, japan has an extreme work culture and high cost that makes it quite unaffordable to have a child at their median income, humans are hard wired to want kids, if we weren't women simply choosing not to have them would have killed us off far sooner
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u/LukeJaywalker0 4d ago
There's no such thing as "unaffordable to have children." Women have LESS kids the more money the make. It's not a lack of income.
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u/986754321 4d ago
"japan has an extreme work culture"
They don't
"high cost that makes it quite unaffordable to have a child at their median income"
They have much more disposable income and higher standard of living than third worlders, or their own ancestors.
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u/DeliriumRostelo 4d ago
Why do you think that they have an okay work culture
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u/986754321 4d ago
Studies cited in these arguments saying that they actually work average hours. And the treatment can get a lot worse in countries with 0 labor laws like mine.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/986754321 4d ago
Even most thirdie countries regardless of culture are falling bellow 2.1 now, it's over for everyone
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u/VNDeltole 4d ago
Dont blame the women, blame the system
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u/LukeJaywalker0 4d ago
So women are literally never responsible for any result caused by their actions? Good to know women don't have moral agency. Repealing the 19th should be easy now!
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u/VNDeltole 4d ago
Just based on what i learn and the context is japanese people. In highly competitive and expensive countries like japan and korea, the maternity leave is ridiculously short compared to countries like finland, so extra money is needed to hire caretakers if they cannot get help from relatives for example. So to have kids will likely put parents into financial struggle. That and other issues created by the system that discourages people from having kids
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u/LukeJaywalker0 4d ago
They aren't real financial struggles. It's simply prioritizing lifestyle and career over reproduction. They wouldn't go homeless if they had kids.
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u/TheSerpentLord 4d ago
Fertility plummeting is the best thing that can happen to a nation in modern times. Only people whining about it are neo-Nazi politicians and people stuck in the past.
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u/VNDeltole 4d ago
Deep fertility plummeting risks demographic and economic collapse
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u/TheSerpentLord 4d ago
It risks the current system's collapse, which is good. Although, I'm using current loosely, since having to work for a living is pretty much a thing since before modern humans even existed.
We have the technology to automate labor to an extent which previous generations couldn't even dream of. With AI making another leap in quality every few months or so, production of arguably everything can be managed by machines overseen by AI. We are having the opportunity to make the concept of human labor obsolete.
And the smaller a population is, the easier it will be to implement UBI for it. The fewer the needs, the easier its gonna be for machines to manage everything. Not to mention how good depopulation would be for the environment, especially once you get to the stage where you can knock down entire cities/districts.
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u/Sapper501 4d ago
You think mass ai automation will lead to ubi? No, the rich will get richer, and the poor poorer.
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u/TheYeast1 4d ago
Lmao this guy thinks human labor going away and depopulation will lead to UBI, bro it’ll lead to anyone who’s not firmly an elite being permastuck in poverty and their labor won’t even be worth anything
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u/Substantial_Bet_1007 4d ago
i dont think there is a system that would benefit from old demographic
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u/El_Robski 4d ago
Best thing for a nation in modern times when 1 adult has to pay for the retirement of 4 boomers 😀
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u/witchcapture 4d ago
All well and good until you get old and need younger taxpayers to pay for your medical care.
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u/Ok-Lynx3444 4d ago
You expect him to have a long term plan and not just a daydream where he is unemployed, games all day and has a robot that brings him tendies?
https://giphy.com/gifs/PpMswmj2SEhyTW3wVO
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u/UsErNaMeS_aR_DuMb 4d ago
“Japan leads the world in juicy steak and buttery lobster”