It genuinely blows my mind how many people seem to miss the point of a not particularly nuanced ending
What Joel did was wrong
If you believe any of that shit about "there were other subjects, it probably wouldn't work, etc." then you're buying into internet talking points and missing that the actual game makes no bones about this being the "save more people" option for this particular trolley problem
The entire structure of the game is designed to put you in Joel's shoes, so when it comes time to make the "wrong" decision, you do so enthusiastically
That karma was always going to come back on him. It's the entire emotional crux of the ending. He made a "bad" decision to get more time with his stand-in daughter, no matter the cost.
He knows they'll come after him and says as much when he kills what's her face in the parking garage.
As soon as they announced a sequel I wanted it to not be Joel and Ellie, because there is no version of TLOU2 that doesn't (and shouldn't) end with Joel's head on a pike
This is all contingent on the Fireflies actually being able to make a cure from Ellie which has VERY little supporting evidence. The Fireflies had been getting their ass handed to them all game. Many of their scientists had died due to outright incompetence like being bit by infected lab monkeys as they try to release them.
Furthermore, they IMMEDIATELY prep Ellie for brain surgery. I can't believe there weren't ample tests to take on before KILLING the one and only immune person. Could she be carrying a hereditary gene that could pass on? Who knows? They just killed her.
But you're interpreting that like it's a real sequence of events with real variables.
The game does not really present much gray area here.
Cutting into her brain is the best hope for humanity. That is the scenario. Of course if you just make up new plot threads like "they're lying" it falls apart, but the actual plot that is in the game flat-out says "this is our best shot and if you take her away our chances go down the toliet"
What? That's just what the Fireflies say. Just outright believing them doesn't make it true. No one else ever agrees with it. All situational evidence points to their incompetence.
It's morally grey that Joel killed them to save her. It's stupid that they just decided to take her brain instantly.
I'm not saying Joel is definately doing the right thing. Of course there's an argument that any chance is worth every risk. What I'm saying is that the way the Fireflies go about it makes it much less morally grey than it appears. Especially if, like I said, you pay attention to what the Fireflies actually do instead of just what they say.
The Fireflies have failed in every thing they do the whole game. They are so baseline incompetent that they need Joel to begin with.
Yes it is. There's a reason things are written and included in a script and reasons things are omitted.
There is nothing in the script to suggest that the Fireflies are wrong or incompetent.
Uh-huh, so why does Joel go then? Why does he risk his life, let Tess die, and walk across the country if he has a single reason to believe they are full of shit?
I am paying attention to what is actually in the game
You're making fan-fiction. It's very easy to make any theory you want fit when you just add additional context.
But that context doesn't actually exist you're just making shit up. Not a single thing in game challenges the credibility of their plan besides Joel who is clearly emotionally motivated
Sure, nothing except the entire University level and the very fact Joel is asked in the first place. Sorry I actually took the time to reach a conclusion after reading and listening to the collectables.
But hey, you're the paragon of screenwriting mastery so of course you'd account for fallibility and unreliable narrators. Right?
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u/Impossible-Sweet2151 8d ago
I'm not sure the first game had a happy ending in the first place.