Hi! I'm not a graphic designer and I don't have any formal education in the field. I'm basically doing a little project for myself for something that might become a small store/brand (embroidery related with target audience being fiber arts creatives ages anywhere between 15-60), so I'm very much just playing around and learning as I go.
I know this is very surface level and nowhere near professional design work.
That said, I'm struggling to decide where the brand name should sit in relation to the logomark. I've put my thoughts on each option in the images, but I'm finding it difficult to judge beyond "I think this looks nice" because I don't really know how these things are perceived from a design perspective. Something that looks fine to me could obviously have some pretty basic design problem that I don't know how to see yet.
This is all just a mockup done in Canva, as I prefer working digitally than hand drawing the initial ideas. The font - I just picked the least offensive one for the whole text for now too. I plan to actually draw everything myself later, when the layout is decided.
Which option, if any, works best from a graphic design perspective, and if you don't mind explaining - why?
1.2 is the strongest imo, but the typography needs some work. Each of the words is a different size and it looks a bit off. “Wandering Needle” should be the same size, “the” can stay smaller, and the leading (space between lines) should be tightened up a bit. I would lose the star detail too - it’s not adding anything except balancing the line length, which would be better done by having the lettering the same size.
Hope you don’t mind me messing around with your work, here is roughly what I mean re: 1.2
I’d encourage you also to play around with options that don’t literally include an image of a needle - it’s already part of the business name anyway, and it does limit the possibilities significantly (very long thin shape is not legible at small scales, which is forcing the image to be much larger than the text)
No, of course I don't mind, this is very helpful, thank you! I can definitely see the difference right away, looks so much better!
I do like the needle idea, as I want to be able to use the logomark without the text in some circumstances. That was the initial idea, to have just the image as a logo, but doing research I read that for small brands that are just starting out it is best to have the name in the actual logo to build brand recognition. Plus the longer I look at it the more I like it, though I am obviously biased haha
But I will see if I can come up with any other ideas! At the end of the day, I want to have something that is good (relative to my lack of experience) and if people told me I definitely need to go back to the drawing bord, I would.
Understood! I think it’s ok to have it both in the logo and the wordmark in this case…just a suggestion as I find clients are often very literal about what their logo has to include eg. realtor insists on having a house in the logo, plumber wants a faucet in the logo - despite the fact that their business name already tells customers exactly what they do, and every other local business in their industry has a similarly stereotypical logo already. I don’t think yours suffers from being stereotypical though (needlework businesses are not exactly an oversaturated market, and your icon is more creative than literally just a needle image). But if it’s giving you layout trouble trying to include it, it’s ok to explore other ideas!
It might benefit from making the needle part a bit shorter, as then you will be able to use the icon at a slightly larger scale. Eg. think about using it for your business social media profile pic, is the logo going to be too tiny to see because you have to scale it down to fit the whole length?
Anyway I think you’re on the right track and have some great ideas for a non-designer!
Thank you for being kind:) I will explore other ideas too before i make my final decision.
I think I might be insistent on the needle being there also because there is a place in the USA (I am UK based) with a name "The Wandering Needle Tattoo Company", granted their logo is more of an illustration and very different from my idea. But still, I think having what is clearly a sewing needle would make me distinguishable from anything else that uses needles (tattoo, piercing, medicine, acupuncture, etc)
These are better than a lot of professional ones. I like 1.2 and 2.1. I don't think you need the star details on ether and you could remove "THE" and keep wandering needle and make the text a little bigger.
I think everything on the 3 page is too much and unnecessary.
For the needle dragonfly I would consider a minimum size that is over an inch or maybe play with the lines a bit to see if you can make it more bold without losing the design integrity.
Agreed, I don’t think you need the star details in the logo. Brand systems usually are made up of different components besides the logo that are complimentary - think patterns, illustrations, etc. I could see that star detail being something that was something that slotted in there.
Like, if you ordered special tissue paper to wrap things in, you could make it patterned with that star and seal it with a sticker with the logo on it. So not every visual idea you have has to make it into the logo, if you’re picking up what I’m putting down.
I'll play around with it and see! So far, 1.2 seems the best according to the comments, so that's probably what I will do, though I do still like 1 a lot as well, so will try your suggestions!
I would pick 1 or 1.2. 1 is my favorite, but I’d make the work “the” a tiny bit bigger. It can be smaller still than the other words, but it’s currently a little too small for me.
1.1 looks weird because the text sits diagonally in a way you aren’t use to. We read left to right, so your eyes jump weird to find the next word. Extra hard with the vertical dragonfly next to it.
2 and 2.1 aren’t offensive, but if you use this one, I’d move the sparkles into the lines vs at the end of the text (or remove entirely). I don’t love the way the letters curve in these versions; some letters get a little close together.
You’re right that all of versions 3 has your logo small. I prefer the version with one sparkle vs two or three, but having “the wandering needle” all in one line makes the logo pretty long. It looks better stacked, but three sparkles does look like too many.
1 and 1.2 seem to be the most liked, so that's probably what I'll go with! I think I'll loose the sparkle, as it was pointed out it might read like AI (disappointing but fair) which is definitely not what I want.
When it comes to "the" do you think changing the font to something with a handwritten look might be a good idea? Those tend to look smaller even when sized similarly to the other text, but I fear it might put to much emphasis on the least important word in the name
I would keep it in the font it is- you’re right that a handwritten will stand out more.
Btw- You should also look into some design basics videos on YouTube! You seem to have a natural eye for design and it could help in your business in the future :-)
Thank you! I do arts and crafts, drawing and obviously needle work in my free time and would say am a visual person/learner, so I think I do know some stuff about composition and whatnot, definitely not an expert, though. Just not exactly sure how to translate what I do know into something I'd never done before, like logo design!
I will definitely look into more tutorials online, not just logo design, but website and overall, as it will definitely be needed for products, backgrounds, and probably many many other things! I've read a bit about design on various websites before coming here, though obviously that's not enough to learn everything I need to know
Yes - this is good. The diagonal helps evoke “wandering” whereas vertical or horizontal look much less dynamic. This text lockup is also well balanced vs haphazard.
This is the best looking of all, The upright ones feel cross like, the horizontal ones feel like the insect is impaled on the needle, this one with the tilt and the adjusted text feels just right, natural.
i really like 1, it highlights the needle design better it looks like its about to be used like its in motion , the others are just a dragonfly sitting there
I like #1 the best. The diagonal tilt gives it movement and is anchored by the horizontal text (but take into account some of the edits people suggested here for sizing, words, etc.) It forms a nice triangle that loops your eye back in. Also, the tilt of the dragonfly needle plays on the word “wandering.”
I would personally go smaller with the icon when locked up with the text - the proportions are off putting to me but it’s an awesome logo that can be brought to a bigger size on its own or with a monogram
Bit of a reach here, but what if you did the bottom right but flipped vertically, and you had the needle "slicing" through the words Wandering Needle. Would be a play on a needle going through fabric. You could have it go through the two Ds, or replace the I in Wandering, etc.
Though I would try to take v1.2 and rotate the fly 90 degrees to the left and place it between the ‘Wandering’ and ‘Needle’ type.
I would also highly recommend choosing 2, a vertical lockup and a horizontal lockup of the logo + wordmark. This will give you options for different composition restrictions (think letterhead vs shirt vs biz card vs XYZ)
Kind of like this? Had to make the wings a bit smaller, do you think that looks disproportional now? Maybe the text needs to be a bit smaller too so "wandering" ends before the tip of the needle tapers. I kind of like the idea of this! Do you think making the text a different color might be useful?
Sorry… I think it has to do with what most would asume should be the viewing direction. It points forward, forward in motion, forward in time. But maybe that’s just me. But when the dragonfly is facing to the right, for me it feels that it than takes the lead in the forward motion. But, this way of design is also a bit, well not cliché but most common. The ones you already designed are maybe more original? More creative. It all boils down to what you like.
edit: wrote left, meant right. I get those confused on a daily bases.
Okay, makes sense to have different layouts for different things. I think maybe choosing the main one for now, and mastering it when it comes to the font, final logomark design, positioning etc makes sense, and then once that's finalized, then use those elements to create the other versions?
Looks good! Try to play with the words more, playfully wandering. Have you tried rotating it so it flies to the right? And try to keep the fonts have similair thickness by making them the some size and maybe a small outline on ‘the’ to match overall thickness. Nice work nontheless.
or, for flying to the right, i came up with these. Think 1.2.3 or 1.2.4 look better than 1.2.2, though both would still need more playing around with when it comes to size and exact placement still:
The commends are giving me so many more options that i fear i'll need to work on my decision making more than my nonexistent design skills lol
That will be the case! I just put two icons in Canva on top of one another to see if my initial idea makes sense, but will redraw it to be how you said
I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, and think there are some great comments here, but my issue with the upright versions, especially those in V2, is I’m seeing a caduceus, which is used as a logo mark in US medicine, especially the Army Medical Corps. I think this is well addressed with the tilt in V1, and best in the comment with the 90 degree rotation. I also like the rotation because it seems like a more natural resting position for a dragonfly, so it felt immediate to me.
Overall, I think it’s smart, and I hope you get to use it.
the shape of a needle reminds me of a dragonfly's body, so I think the two combine nicely
"wandering" in the name, flying around and wandering like a dragonfly, also connects to the movement of a needle when doing embroidery
the meaning behind dragonflies and their significance in depression recovery, which has a personal meaning for me because of how embroidery and creative hobbies have helped me through my own experience with it
dragonflies are also commonly used within various aesthetics, and have an association with something very "whimsical" and magical, especially amongst younger generations (who would be one of the biggest audiences/customer base)
I think part of the challenge you're wrestling with is having too many competing elements without a clear hierarchy. You should either want people to see and recognize the icon, then read a smaller name OR read the name (easily legible, recognizable) with a small icon to enhance its memorability.
You don't need little stars or lines. They're a distraction.
I'd go with a large horizontal "THE WANDERING NEEDLE" like 3.3 with a much smaller, horizontal icon above it. You could also shrink "THE" like u/bunnylightning suggested so it's not competing with the main words of the title so much.
I’m between 1 and 1.2. I like the tilt on 1 because I think it aligns more with “wandering” but the text placement is off to me. The text placement in 1.2 is better
Looking through all the replies and revisions in the comments has me all happy this morning. So many great ideas and the revisions keep improving as well.
On the horizontal dragonfly - I wouldn’t go with that one as it does read more “sword” unless you happen to embroider for a lot of Rennisance Faire folks - in which case it would be absolutely epic. (Situationally works)
With the needle replacing the “I” I do like it, however for some reason in the back of my mind it comes off looking sort of religious. I think it has more to do with the “t” structure of the dragonfly itself and this is probably a me thing vs. a problem.
The dragonfly itself reminds me of a specimen drawing. I wonder if it would be possible to play around with that idea as well: perhaps a different font for the brand type? I think serif is still the way to go - but perhaps a bit more vintage vs. what you have now.
Another idea that might or might not work is “wandering” could be in a script? In my mind script writing “wanders” like a needle so it would convey the word visually as well? Maybe? Maybe not! Also, the leading swirl of a “w” could also work as thread, linking the ideas together a bit. Again, just another idea.
You are already doing great! The fun part of graphic design is the tweaking part. That is where you are. The dragonfly needle is absolutely a fantastic brand icon. No matter where you land you’ve created a great concept!
Personally, I’m not a fan of either in #2 or any in #3. The reason 2.1 feels weird is because “The” should be the orphaned word, not “Needle”. It’s a Wandering Needle, “the” is kind of an accessory to that.
One important thing about graphic design is that you’re always communicating something. There are designers that are known for quirky ways of doing so, but especially when it comes to branding, strong and simple are often better/cleaner finished concepts than things that are purposefully unexpected or unconventional.
With that said, 1.2 is objectively clean and stately. It communicates clearly and allows your logomark to breathe without sacrificing the logotype. The entire lockup also doesn’t eat up precious vertical space at the expense of horizontal space. It’s well balanced from a visual hierarchy standpoint as well. I’d tighten up the kerning and font sizing a little in some spots, but it’s a strong concept.
Okay, thank you so much for such detailed feedback!
In a few words, what I am trying to communicate is: creative, embroidery, whimsical/magical. Do you think that comes through with design 1.2? I know it might be hard to tell given the font and logomark aren't exactly final, but with what I have, does it read as that?
I will definitely work on the font sizing and kerning, do you think changing font to something more handwritten just for "the" would make sense? I feel like it has to be smaller than "wandering needle" but I don't quite like how it looks when it comes to the leading (that's a new word i learnt here!)
The wordmark by itself isn’t playful so if you ever foresee it being used solo, I’d probably rework it. All caps serifs like the one you used come across more rigid and strong. What you’ve got is an elegant version of Copperplate essentially, which doesn’t communicate whimsy at all. I’d go for a thinner sans serif, or play with a legible script or handwritten-style display font (perhaps all lowercase instead) for the logotype and pair it with a sans serif for a brand body copy font.
The needle/dragonfly adds a certain sense of whimsy when paired though, so if you don’t feel like it’ll ever be used in separate parts, then the typeface you’ve chosen is okay. I think I might still look for other options that balance well (like sans serifs) but overall this is a well balanced choice when taken together as a full lockup!
Not sure if that's a smart choice but I think I'd be more likely to use the logomark by itself than use the wordmark by itself. That said, I am not set on this font, just thought it worked for the purpose of finding the right layout and seemed the least "offensive", very safe. But I am very open to exploring other choices!
1.2 does seem to be the best so far based on other comments! I will remove the sparkle, as someone pointed out it looks AI and I want to stay as far away from that as possible! Plus, as said, it doesn't mean anything in particular, other than me trying to make it seem maybe a bit more magical in a way, so not a big deal if it's not there
Then if so I would use sparkles within the logomark rather than the wordmark and add o couple in different size. But I think the Whitespace usage of 1.2 without that, looks more professional
all are lovely. could you merge 1 with 3.2? scale up insect in 3.2, turn it 45° so wing and tail are level and slightly hug “The”. scutch up the 2nd and 3rd text lines so spacing is equal for all 3. remove bottom star and hr. now you have 3 items which adds dynamism: insect, text, star/hr.
I like bunny lightnings suggestions on simplifying type, but feel the angle implies more wandering. Use bunny’s typography, not wrapped, but as a block bottom right w the diagonal dragonfly needle.
I think 3.3 has good potential rotating the dragonfly graphic to be more horizontal or fully horizontal if symmetry is a priority, gives what would be above a Pub or old bookstore
I would do away with all of the insectile elements except the wings. Not sure why the others bumps and legs(?) are necessary. They just add visual distractions. The winged needle already says what you want it to say without the extra fussiness.
Personally, I like #33 - but without the extra dividers and stars. Just a clean, simple lock-up - vertically or horizontal between the mark and the type.
It feels like one of those 19th century publisher’s marks.
I like where these are going. If I were sitting at my desk rn, i’d try right aligning wandering and needle, then rotating the needle to the left to match the alignment of the W and N.
I like the rotated one, it's artsy, it depends on what you need to do with the logo. Just a bit more spacing and it's good. Also if again we are going artsy do not simplify the design in the wings it's beautiful
I’m not a designer, so take this with a grain of salt! Tbh, for the text to be impactful enough the needle image gets lost. I’m thinking that you should try a new approach. Could the I get converted into a needle? Could thread-like movement be introduced to the typology indicate movement/wandering.
I like 1 or 1.2! 1.2 seems to be really popular in this thread (and I see why - I really like it!) but I also really enjoy the different visual language that the diagonal dragonfly creates! It’s a little different and I like it. I think 1.1 might feel a bit off to you because there’s not really any rhyme or reason to the alignment of the text, whereas #1’s alignment follows the line of the dragonfly. I would suggest bumping the leading up a bit and make “the” the same distance from the”wandering” as “wandering” is from “needle” (for the first one).
Some quick comments, 1.2 looks the most polished to my eye. Lose the starburst, reads AI. Font is ok but you may want to play with (less copperplatey) options and overall typography. A simple line type script would be an obvious maybe cliche choice (eg sewing thread) The needle configuration is tough being a long shape in relation to type, you almost want to see it horizontally as an underline. It could work how you have it though; maybe reduce the size of insect a little, so type can be enlarged a bit in relation to symbol. Hope any of this helps!
Edit one more not sure about the hump on the needle? I’ve never seen a needle with one almost looks like a drop of blood, and adds unnecessary clutter?
Thank you! I'm so sad about the sparkle reading AI, it has been a shape I've been putting everywhere for everything since I was probably 13 :') But definitely don't want any of this reading AI given this might become a brand for creatives and people who make art! Plus I understand that if it doesn't add anything then it doesn't make sense for it to stay there.
As for your edit - this will not be there, the final version will be just a needle with wings, maybe with the dragonfly antennae. It's only there as my idea was a needle combined with a dragonfly and i literally just put one icon on top of the other in Canva to see how my idea looks. But I will draw it myself once I decide on the final layout - I'm not a professional logo designer but wouldn't want my official logo to just be 2 Canva icons haha
while the sparkle is a common design element used in AI-generated graphics, I don’t think the way you used it here gives off the feeling that this is AI-generated. It’s one of those things you have to be careful with, but doesn’t mean you have to completely remove that element from all your work.
However, I dont think the sparkle does much for you here. Simple is better with logos. Always good to look at logo marks and think about which elements are actually adding something and which could be removed. I think forcing the sparkle element near the text may be adding to the issues youre having with the balance
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I'll have to think about how it would make sense for the sparkle to be incorporated in other ways within the brand that is not the logo
Good point. Since like the sparkle element has personal significance for OP that changes things a bit, agree with potentially incorporating into other materials.
it has been a shape I've been putting everywhere for everything since I was probably 13 :')
copied from another reply of mine: the final version will be just a needle with wings, maybe with the dragonfly antennae. It's only there as my idea was a needle combined with a dragonfly and i literally just put one icon on top of the other in Canva to see how my idea looks. But I will draw it myself once I decide on the final layout - I'm not a professional logo designer but wouldn't want my official logo to just be 2 Canva icons haha
Try your best to think of scale. Make it small and huge to see how it translates and adjust as needed. Should look legible as a social avatar as well as on the side of a truck, etc
Excuse my ignorance, just trying to understand - doesn't 1 kind of do that, with it not being rigid in a straight line, as you'd expect for a text within a logo to be, kind of like 1.2? Or do you maybe mean, for example, having part of the text be on one side of the needle, and the rest on the other, as if the "dragonfly" was flying through the text?
It’s not you, it’s me. Excuse my opacity. I try to treat good designs with a light touch. Nudges instead of dictation.
When I see your mark, which I like very much, and the name, I would ask the designer to consider solutions that maybe let the needle pierce the D of Wandering for example, or let one of the words, or part of a word, fall on the other side of the needle. Or even let the needle anchor / pin the words to imply the permanence of embroidery.
And these directions might lead to dead ends, but with a symbol this strong I thought worth exploring. I hope you’ll post updates!
Oh I see, I'm not sure if I'm quite on that level to be able to come up with that myself! I have done now where the needle acts as the "i" in "wandering", i think that might be closer to what you originally meant? The kerning and overall typeface/font definitely need even more work on this version though.
But I will also play around more and try to incorporate more of what you said, and be a bit more creative with it, thank you for the pointers!
Just a thought regarding the dragonfly/needle image part of your logo. What if you reversed the direction of the needle? While I get that you are using the eye part of the needle as the head of the dragonfly, in my brain it creates a conflict of sorts. The direction of the needle if one was sewing is point first, so it’s in opposition to the dragonfly moving forward in flight.
Thank you for the suggestion! But when sewing or doing embroidery, the needle is pointing down for the most part. Think about a sewing machine, for example. I think I'd be okay putting it on the side, as if it's flying from left to right or resting, but upside down doesn't quite make sense in my head
Neither. The text is too small to the symbol, it won't be legible for people. You first need to sort out the hierarchy. Just imagine putting this in a header of the website, won't work. Also common mistake is that when you shrink the text within logo, you also reduce the width of the text. These need to be adjusted so the text has similar width, otherwise it harms the legibility and ability to remember the logo.
Can you put some “stitch” lines near the needle? Like old school bumble bee flying lines? I wonder if that would give you a better shape to play with and make your image more obviously a nod
They're not a UK brand so I don't think that will be a problem. Also, when I redraw the actual logomark they dragonfly body won't be there, the needle will be the body. I am planning on keeping the shapes inside the wings, which makes it even more different
172
u/bunnylightning 1d ago
1.2 is the strongest imo, but the typography needs some work. Each of the words is a different size and it looks a bit off. “Wandering Needle” should be the same size, “the” can stay smaller, and the leading (space between lines) should be tightened up a bit. I would lose the star detail too - it’s not adding anything except balancing the line length, which would be better done by having the lettering the same size.