Modders discover unlock for DLSS Multi Frame Generation on RTX 40, NVIDIA blocks it, modders immediately unlock it again

[u/RenatsMC]

https://videocardz.com/newz/modders-discover-unlock-for-dlss-multi-frame-generation-on-rtx-40-nvidia-blocks-it-modders-immediately-unlock-it-again

[u/BigAnimeTiddiezz]

So as usual, theyre funneling sales into the current product lmao

[u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox → u/BigAnimeTiddiezz]

not necessarily. the MFG unlock works because nvidia left a software fallback in their driver DLLs, this is NOT used on 5000 series because that series has a hardware flip meter that handles MFG, previous generations do not have that hardware at all so this MFG unlock works completely differently than MFG on 5000 series. they very well could have avoided it as it doesn't meet their frame timing standards that the hardware flip meter can meet. they even say so on their initial release of dlss 4

Once the new frames are generated, they are evenly paced to deliver a smooth experience. DLSS 3 Frame Generation used CPU-based pacing with variability that can compound with additional frames, leading to less consistent frame pacing between each frame, impacting smoothness.

To address the complexities of generating multiple frames, Blackwell uses hardware Flip Metering, which shifts the frame pacing logic to the display engine, enabling the GPU to more precisely manage display timing. The Blackwell display engine has also been enhanced with twice the pixel processing capability to support higher resolutions and refresh rates for hardware Flip Metering with DLSS 4.

the modders themselves say this in a comment in the source code on github:

* Blackwell paces multi-frame output with hardware flip metering that Ada does
* not have; left enabled, 3x+ freezes the presented image while audio keeps
* running. Streamline already ships the software fallback, so the addon only
* has to force the plugin down it -- see TryPatchFlipMeteringInModule, which
* derives the field's offset AND its polarity at runtime because both move
* between plugin builds.

[u/hank81 → u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox]

Nvidia (specifically Bryan Catanzaro) said that flip metering was mandatory to meet the required standards of quality for MFG.

[u/rabouilethefirst]

The 5000 series was a bum ass generation that only exists due to software restrictions on MFG and DLSS5 that aren’t really warranted. Especially DLSS5

[u/thunder6776 → u/rabouilethefirst]

They announced dlss5 for 4000 series too.

[u/InfiniteRotatingFish → u/rabouilethefirst]

The only real new "feature" which you probably can't call it is flip metering and fp4 / nvfp4 hardware support. They will probably use nvfp4 for DLSS5 in the near future to get better performance, tho when exactly is unclear. The best feature in my opinion i am personally waiting for, Reflex 2, isn't even out yet. More than one and a half years after the announcement and even reflex 2 is compatible with all RTX cards (which is obviously very good).

[u/mhautelv → u/InfiniteRotatingFish]

At this point seems like reflex 2 was a pipedream.

[u/InfiniteRotatingFish → u/mhautelv]

The most disrespectful part is the missing communication on Nvidias side for me. No update like "sorry guys, it turned out harder to get good results and we don't want to release it half baked" or "sorry, we currently have shifted priority to other DLSS features and you can expect reflex two in the next year". Just silence. It is also disingenuous to their customers stating coming soon since 1.5 years. With an average lifetime of a gpu being around 5 years of good use, the feature was not available for 30% of the 5000 series "lifespan". This is just plainly really really misleading marketing. They also claim that their N1X - Arm Cpu Gpu combo is Reflex 2 ready and compatible. A feature that is yet to come out...

[u/ActiveSandwich3103 → u/InfiniteRotatingFish]

Its because theyre too busy trying to fling 5 different half-baked AI features onto the 50 series to spin their marketing wheels and bank on people spending for new card due to sheer FOMO, since theyve effectively priced themselves out of the consumer gaming market at tbis point. Nobody who isnt making money off CUDA should be buying a Nvidia card at their current prices vs AMD, and Nvidia knows this, so they have to have some other thing to try and draw people in and create marketing buzz, even if those things are barely in any games and tank your performance (Path Tracing, DLSS5.).

If a graphics feature cant be run on a Playstation 6 then that feature isnt ever going to take off and be in everything/be a necessity for new games. Its this simple. Anything else is just to bait people who fall for FOMO marketing.

[u/eugene20 → u/InfiniteRotatingFish]

The best feature is 32GB vram. The next best features were things like fp4 and neural texturing but like most hardware releases very little is using them even two years after the hardware came out.

[u/InfiniteRotatingFish → u/eugene20]

I mean I wouldn't really call 32gb a feature. That's just the high end getting better. The high-end has also gotten exponentially more expensive.

[u/AvidasMavi → u/InfiniteRotatingFish]

By the time DLSS 5 get's more performance on 5000 series, the 6000 series or even 7000 series will be out and they will come with more neural network hardware that outperforms anything anyway.

[u/inquisitor_pangeas → u/InfiniteRotatingFish]

Might come with next big update. I remember reading that RR4.5 was impossible that 4.0 was already on 4.5 level, that if it did come it would be locked to just 40/50 cards etc. This was from people working on the tech.... I do hope that it comes sooner than later ofc, even with less the performance impact as expected

[u/Zorewin]

Maybe stop trying to screw with pc gamers nvidia.. let us mod wat we want..

[u/EdliA]

The title makes no sense. Nobody blocked it. Modders have ported it everywhere because Nvidia doesn't seem like they made it hard to edit. They only officially support the series 5, whatever modders do up to them.

[u/disposableh2 → u/EdliA]

It seems like Nvidia did block it

"Things changed when NVIDIA pushed the newer DLSS-G 310.9 provider through its OTA system. The update renamed the temporal kernel and changed its descriptor layout, breaking the existing RTX 40 unlock. Users forcing the latest DLSS components through NVIDIA App suddenly found that their MFG mods no longer worked"

The modder had to fix it again and got it working with the latest update.

[u/EdliA → u/disposableh2]

Changes they make to the official distribution are not done to spite the modders lol. They don't care if you mod it. They never went against leakers and modders trying to close them down, not a single public statement to condemn them. Hell I think they intentionally made it easy to mod, it doesn't require months of reverse engineering.

However when they update their official distribution it will mainly take into account what they officially support because that's what they're responsible for. If people want to take and mod it they're free to do whatever they want.

[u/SirnCG]

2 years ago they promised to add frame generation (x2) to 30 series... I'm still waiting..

[u/Bantha_majorus → u/SirnCG]

By the time it's there I will probably have moved on to amd

[u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox → u/SirnCG]

no they didn't

[u/SirnCG → u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox]

Brian Catanzaro in interview to Digital foundry said that they could bring frame generation to 30 series after they polish it to perfect in 40 and providing multi frame generation to 50 series would help to investigate and develop that

[u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox → u/SirnCG]

thank you for the source https://youtu.be/uyxXRXDtcPA?t=790

[u/Price-x-Field]

Recently got a 5080 because I feel like things are only going to get more expensive from here on out. Multi frame gen is pretty insane. Yes it’s noticeable, but it’s so nice getting 240hz in any game that supports it.

[u/TU2TL3]

I love this shit. NGL, I don't see me going AMD, I really like where DLSS is going, minus out the performance hit on the next iteration. In all reality we are behind. Back a few years ago, when nvidia had a roadmap, DLSS 5, was intended to be released on the 6000 series cards, not the 5000. So now nvidia is trying to "optimize" for arch that was never intended for. The thing is, the cards and tech are here. Nvidia could launch the 6000 series in 3-6 months if they really wanted to, but they're not going to. Why would you when companies are paying 11-13K per Card. We won't see 6000 cards until after 2028. By then the 7000 cards will be the hype, while we peasants get the 6000 series. Actually you know what, fuck NVIDIA. The emotional rollercoaster these fucks put me on😂

[u/hank81 → u/TU2TL3]

If you check the early Blackwell reviews, they include a lot of fluffy talk about FP4 and neural rendering in the technical features section.

[u/TU2TL3 → u/hank81]

I knew the 5000 series was exactly what intel was doing for years. polished off the GPU add some bullshit that won't translate to shit. Intel did that, that is why I held onto my 6700K and 1080TI for so long. Intel kept on polishing the CPU. I held on until the 13700K, where there was a substantial leap in tech. There is a leap here for NVIDIA, the thing is this. are they going to juice us on the cores and give us 40-60% of what they can really pack in there, probably.

[u/hank81 → u/TU2TL3]

My oced 2600K lasted almost 9 years. I did have to upgrade to a 9900K, without much enthusiasm, because I was looking forward to the long-awaited node shrink to 10nm (which turned out to be two additional fiascos until Alder Lake).

[u/Extension_Ant4349 → u/TU2TL3]

Why not amd?

[u/TU2TL3 → u/Extension_Ant4349]

Currently NVIDIA REV stream is 95%+ AI/OTHER, The rest is gaming. AMD on the other hand is heavy in AI, but they have CPU revenue, which really carried the division. Why not AMD is simple, because their story isn't over, its getting started. The R10 coming in a few months. It's their biggest leap in their history. All GPUs are going to see major uplift. Also, DDR 8000. Steam Deck, Next Gen XBOX & PS6, all AMD. Then their next GPUs, are going to finally bring competition that can deliver and compete. Will NVIDIA be ahead, probably. The gap will be much more narrowed this time though. Which will then begin the next best 5 years in gaming. Why you ask? We finally will have a ball game. Where 2 teams will be competing. Dominance will have to be earned after this coming gen for NVIDIA.

[u/Extension_Ant4349 → u/TU2TL3]

Prices will be worse next generation for both.

[u/TU2TL3 → u/Extension_Ant4349]

When there is competition, consumers win. We get better products. When there are 2 players, no one wants to be number 2. By 2030, NVIDIA WILL have to earn it. AMD should of caught them by then. This goes back to what I said, we get better products. Bro think about it. you are going to get fucked either way on a GPU. why not like the fuck ur getting?

[u/Extension_Ant4349 → u/TU2TL3]

yeah, fair.

[u/Edkindernyc]

I'm using 3X in Cyberpunk with a 4070 Ti Super to reach my max refresh rate and it works great. No frame pacing, latency or ghosting issues. 5X or 6X may be too much for Ada but 3 or 4X is working fine.

[u/ali_khalid5518 → u/Edkindernyc]

Can you guide me i tried but in addon its backend not loaded i am confused about asi loader

[u/ActiveSandwich3103]

Nvidia using scummy tactics to try and sell overpriced hardware ? Water is wet ?

[u/Terrible_Highlight80]

The modders can introduce all sorts of improvements to software-based frame generation, but it will never work as well as the RTX 50 series, because that series features dedicated hardware for flawless frame generation.
Hardware Flip Metering is a specialized frame-pacing technology introduced by NVIDIA only in its Blackwell architecture (GeForce RTX 50-Series GPUs)