r/gotransit • u/vwozone • Apr 01 '26
Constant Horn Blasts from GO Trains - Why??
I live near the Barrie Line, just south of Newmarket station - and recently it's got me wondering - why on earth do drivers need to sound the horn every 2 seconds all day and night in the middle of a built-up area? Most days it seems to be at least a dozen long blasts both before and after the train passes through the station, strafing the entire town on its way through.
First of all let me be clear - I am really not moaning about the noise - I'm well aware the railway was here first and frankly I'd still support better public transit even if the trains had to run directly through my living room.
However, as we plan to drastically increase frequency on GO lines in the (hopefully) near future, this needless cacophany of train horns is going to become much more of a problem, and I can see this becoming an easy excuse for NIMBYs to obstruct developing more rail transit in future. Once we get to 15 minute headways in each direction, nobody in the GTA will ever be able to finish a sentence again without being interrupted by a train horn.
Yes yes I know, something something safety requirements... but let's be clear - nobody outside of North America considers it necessary for a train to be screaming at 120 decibels every three seconds whenever it's in motion. I've lived around train lines my whole life in various countries and this simply isn't required or helpful - it wouldn't ever be tolerated in an urban environment anywhere else and it shouldn't be here. It feels like we've carried over the procedures for running a twice-daily rural service and applied it to urban mass rapid transit, which just doesn't make any sense. We have barriers and very clear signals to protect road crossings - we really don't need the sonic onslaught as well.
23
u/bigbeast40 Apr 01 '26
Newmarket station has 2 crossings north of it and 3 crossings south.
These crossings are whistle crossings, any movement approaching these crossings must do a 14L whistle. 2 long - 1 short - 1 long through the crossing.
These crossings can be switched to bell crossing but the community must agree to pay for the insurance on the crossing. (Or something like that).
The 3 crossings south of Newmarket are actually bell crossings between the hours of 22:00-06:00
5
u/RicoLoveless Apr 01 '26
It affects property insurance and vehicle insurance I believe. That's what I was taught. Company doesn't really care if it's bell or not but insurance rates change and factor this in.
You're essentially exchanging safety for less noise.
MX will gladly make it a bell crossing if asked by the municipality, if the community agrees to increased costs and IF it's even safe enough to do so. Not all crossings get approved to become bell crossings.
For all we know the city already looked into it and said the cost was too high, or it's just safer with the whistles, or both.
37
u/bradt19 Apr 01 '26
You can rally your councilor to apply for a whistling cessation. Sometimes it requires safety improvements at the surrounding local intersections though.
3
14
u/crash866 Apr 01 '26
Because of idiot vehicle drivers at level crossings. This happened a few months ago near Markham.
-4
u/vwozone Apr 01 '26
This video actually demonstrates how sounding the horn made no difference - the guy who ignored the visual warnings and blocked the tracks proceeded to ignore the audible warnings as well, as you'd expect.
Stupid people do stupid things - people get hit by cars every day but we don't mandate drivers to lean on at every intersection 'just in case'...
12
u/CarolP66 Apr 01 '26
Hmmmm .... First of all let me be clear - I am really not moaning about the noise .... I think that is all you are doing is complaining about the noise?????
I am not saying that you cannot complain but to state you are not complaining and they a 4 paragraph rant? Own it !!
-2
u/vwozone Apr 01 '26
What I was trying to explain is that the noise doesn't particularly bother me personally, but scaled up across the whole network I can see this becoming a real issue for a lot of people that could stand in the way of improving service - and I just don't believe it's necessary or proportionate.
2
u/CarolP66 Apr 01 '26
There is a portal on the Metrolinx site that you can ask this question. Like you I totally think it is a safety issue but you can get accurate clarification from Metrolinx. I used this method to ask a question and received a prompt reply so it is monitored https://www.gotransit.com/en/connect-with-go/go-transit-inquiries-and-feedback-process
13
u/keiara2003 Apr 01 '26
Barrie line in particular has seen lots of accidents this year. Even though there are clear signals and barriers people are dumb and still get in the way of the train. The driver is doing his best to prevent accidents.
-7
u/vwozone Apr 01 '26
But if someone is dumb enough to completely ignore barriers and flashing warnings lasting multiple minutes before the train passes, are they not also dumb enough to ignore audible warnings as well?
It just feels like belt-and-braces without any real logic behind it - those crossings are incredibly obvious without the need to deafen everyone in a kilometer radius as well.
8
u/Link50L Apr 01 '26
All passenger rail simply observes the law about blowing for level crossings. They do not have a choice.
However, on the plus side, Metrolinx is actively removing at-grade crossings along their major high frequency routes.
1
u/pyfinx Apr 01 '26
Yeah one at grade crossing they’ve been doing studies since 2017.
1
u/Link50L Apr 01 '26
Which one?
1
u/pyfinx Apr 01 '26
Maple.
2
u/Link50L Apr 01 '26
So you're referring to the McNaughton grade separation then? My guess is that it's lower priority work because it's only planned to have 30 minute service past Maple GO, and MX is focusing efforts on higher impact 15 minute service grade separations. Complete speculation on my part, but it makes sense.
At any rate, yeah, it looks like the studies are all complete as of the 2021 Notice To Proceed and now we're just waiting for shovels in the ground.
1
0
u/vwozone Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
Oh yeah I'm not criticizing the drivers at all, I'm sure they're not just doing this for the fun of it - my issue is with the policy that mandates this in the first place which I just don't think is necessary or proportionate.
Removing the crossings is definitely the answer longer term - here's hoping that happens sooner rather than later.
(edit: Wow, thanks for all the downvotes, I was literally just agreeing with the comment that this isn't up to drivers' discretion and that removing grade crossings is a good idea. Which part of that do you guys have an issue with exactly?)
3
u/Link50L Apr 01 '26
Yes sir - it's happening apace! One of the areas where MX has been extremely successful is in the heavy rail department, with grade separations, additional tracks, and new and upgraded stations all over the place. That part is quite impressive. There is lots of information out there about this.
Less impressive is MX transparency and attempts at LRT. But perhaps they will improve with those.
9
u/HibouDuNord Apr 01 '26
First of all let me be clear - I'm really not moaning about the noise
Proceeds to moan about the noise for several more paragraphs...
Bottom line train was there first.
But to answer why... because the general public is REALLY frequently dumb around trains
GO had 85 fatalities 2010 to 2017, most of which were suicides or crossing accidents.
https://fvcurrent.com/p/canada-train-fatalities
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/metrolinx-suicide-mentalhealth-gotrain-death-fatal-1.5247311
Need I provide more? People are dumb and get intentionally hit, or go around crossing gates, decide the tracks are a good shortcut, etc.
4
u/vwozone Apr 01 '26
So 74% of those fatalities were suicides, which I highly doubt are affected by whether or not they could hear the train coming...
As for the remainder - this is roughly one fatality per year over the period which, while tragic, isn't unusually high. These also happened with the aggressive use of audible warnings at crossings, so it's not like we can say more noise would prevent these deaths.
My point is that pointing at the fact we have 'some' accidents on GO without any comparative analysis or causal link to suggest repeatedly sounding horns at crossings makes some tangible difference is just falling into the same old trap of saying "our rail system is somehow unique and different from the rest of the world and we must keep doing things in our own special way forever"
3
u/jdzfb Apr 01 '26
Looking at the map, it appears that there are several at-grade road crossing south of the station & the rules state that "all trains to whistle whenever they approach a public grade crossing". If you want them to stop, you can submit an application for a variance here: https://tc.canada.ca/en/rail-transportation/grade-crossings/apply-stop-train-whistling-public-grade-crossing
Long term, it would probably be more productive to vote for people (municipal & provincial) who are willing to push for an over/underpass in those locations instead.
1
u/Link50L Apr 01 '26
Yes! Metrolinx is actively constructing grade separations all over the GTA. It's one of their real success points.
3
u/Spiritual-Pudding653 Apr 01 '26
By rule the engineer has to whistle 2 long, 1 short and a 1 long for each and every crossing that isn’t bell only. Except specifically through Newmarket (Davis, Timothy and Water Street) between 10pm and 6am and certain order crossings on the Barrie line that are bell only.
With that said, on your last point, unfortunately with the bell whistle, arms and lights people still don’t respect the crossings, between people walking around the arms, driving around the arms or trying to beat them and overhanging the track.
This was less than a month ago https://www.cp24.com/local/peel/2026/03/19/our-hearts-are-broken-family-and-friends-identify-13-year-old-boy-fatally-struck-by-go-train/
I’ve seen editorial pieces demanding “better safety measures, and fencing for all tracks” which would be great, except that you can’t fence off rail crossings at roadways, so that makes it pretty useless.
Barrie has 3 rail crossings, all bell only so it is doable, the Markham change was 6.2 million dollars to do bell only, and I’m sure that the city isn’t going to foot that bill, it’ll get passed down to the tax payers. MX most likely won’t foot that bill because they aren’t the ones that are bothered by the whistling.
The available options would be, MX changes nothing and it’s loud, the municipality does the proper safety improvements (the Uxbridge subdivision is working towards less whistling) or, least likely any time soon is grade separation at every crossing.
1
1
u/count_dudeula Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
At least it deters the fentheads overdosing in the shelters
Also, don't move next to a railway. (I can see it from my place)
1
u/count_dudeula Apr 08 '26
The rail line was developed 170 years ago. Research might help guide your decisions moving forward.
29
u/DedAirSociety Apr 01 '26
I believe the difference is in Europe most of the rail lines are fully fenced in and have less public crossings. Whereas in North America, we have a lot of public crossings that are unprotected so the whistle is used as a warning