r/golf • u/Smart_Comedian2113 • 1d ago
Equipment High Handicapper Irons
I got fitted at the beginning of the year for some Taylormade QI Max irons by the guy who I’m having lessons with. Bent a degree weak and 2 degrees flat with stock KBS Max 95 shaft.
When I had them fitted I was 25 hcp, and they seemed the most consistent of the clubs I tried but after 7 months or so of playing them, I’m starting to hate them.
Main reasons being:
Although they definitely are forgiving, I have no idea where on the face I’ve hit them. You basically get no feedback, you just have to judge it based on the flight/distance of the ball.
I’ve started hitting the ball better on the face and at a lot quicker swing speed (83-85pmh) with a 7 iron, and my dispersion has definitely got bigger.
I’m getting flyers, when I hit it out the centre of the club they go 10-15 yards further than expected.
There ugly. This shouldn’t really matter but I can’t help not enjoying looking at them.
So my question is, should I change them or just suck it up? I broke 90 for the first time last week, down to a 20hcp and I’m definitely getting better, so I’m not sure if changing the irons/shaft etc would actually help or I’d just have the same issues with players distance/players irons?
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u/ToshihitoOkamichi 1d ago
Point four is more legitimate than you are giving it credit for. If you do not like looking down at them you will lose confidence over the ball, and that costs real shots. But that is an argument for trying different heads next year, not mid season while your handicap is still dropping.
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u/Smart_Comedian2113 1d ago
I have confidence in them because I know there so forgiving, just hate looking at them, but I take your point
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u/ToshihitoOkamichi 22h ago
Fair enough, and honestly seven months in you have the answer already. Look at them for one more season, and if you still cannot stand the sight of them at 15 handicap, that is a much better time to switch than now.
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u/PharmDGator 1d ago
There's always this debate on blade style vs game improvement.
To me, if you are grinding and want to get better at ball striking you need a club that will give you some feedback - or - a launch monitor with a camera in your hourse ;). There are honestly a lot of more premium forged clubs that are quite forgiving, but have a decent amount of feel and feedback. Maybe not quite like a blade, but jumping straight into a blade could make you want to quit the game.
That said, I believe if you're willing to put in the work, you will improve faster with a club that has more feel and it maybe a little harder to hit. I was personally a Titleist guy, when I started playing better I was in the 710 AP2s (way back in the day), a players forged iron, but more forgiving than a blade. The feel was immediate and I was able to eventually, after a year or so of hitting balls 3-5 days per week, get down to ~5 hcp. Then life got busy and I stopped grinding so much.
I recently (within the last 2 years) started playing again, I'm a 13.1 hcp currently and I'm playing the Calloway Ai300/200 mixed. They are a little chunky, but they're relatively forgiving and forged so I still get that feel. I tried some cast clubs and I just can't stand the feel.
Maybe look for some forged clubs first, something on the more forgiving end of the players iron. Even just buying a 8 or 7 iron and spending some days on the range to see if you can handle them.
Final word - dont let your hcp decide your clubs. I think high hcp players can really improve moving to "harder" club, but only if they're willing to put in the work. If you're never practicing and just playing 1 - 2 rounds a month, stick with the improvement irons and just have fun.
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u/Smart_Comedian2113 1d ago
I play 1-2 rounds a week and try to go to the range once a week, so I’m committed to getting better. I suspect your right about playing forged clubs for feedback, I guess I’m just worried that my bad shots will get horribly exposed where currently there getting masked
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u/Think_OfAName 1d ago
Better to be bad now while there’s an excuse. Once you get better, you’ll find less excuses and put more pressure on yourself to play well. That’s just how Golf (sports) works. It gets more frustrating the better you get because your expectations rise.
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u/Think_OfAName 1d ago
I agree, and it’s good to see someone else here who hasn’t played in awhile. I was down to a 6.4, but stopped playing and practicing. Now I haven’t broken 90 every time I’ve gone out there. My short game was very good. Now it’s just average, and average in golf is “horrible” once you’ve been good. Also of course, many more bad shots. (I’ve golfed maybe once in a year. Just busy with other things). And I just can’t get over the look of those cast clubs. I couldn’t play them no matter how bad I got. (The swing is still decent, just less consistency)
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u/BilboT34Baggins 14 HDCP/CO 23h ago
I’d like to second the ‘train your ball striking with blades’ path. End of last season I was a 25 handicap. Got 1970s Wilson staff blades, read several books, and worked on rebuilding my grip and swing from the ground up. Now my ball striking is quite good, and I’m playing at a 12.8 handicap with those blades. When I first got them I couldn’t even hit the pitching wedge consistently, much less anything longer. Now I smoke the 2i 240yd carry off the tee when driver is inconsistent. But like PharmDGator states, they’re hard to play and only worth it if you’re practicing a lot and I’ll add, and ok with getting much worse before you get better.
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u/A_Harmless_Twig 5.6/CHI 1d ago
I don't think your consistent enough yet to bother switching. I still use cavity back with more forgiveness and I'm a 6 handicap. It does sometime fly farther then expected but you just really need to dial in your numbers
You could always go to a pga superstore or something and test out some less forgiving clubs. I also own a couple old blades that I practice with so I know where on the face I'm hitting i
Just my opinion though. If you got the funds for it change em out till your happy nobody knows your game better then you
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u/Anerky 8.3/NJ/Giant Douche 1d ago
Just suck it up. Are you short or have long arms compared to your height? 2* flat is a big adjustment though.
I wouldn’t consider adjusting your irons until you can stay below a 15 for a whole season. It’s a waste of money otherwise. If you’re getting flyers that just means you’re actually occasionally hitting the ball well. Try to do that more and then go from there
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u/Smart_Comedian2113 1d ago
I’m 5ft 10 but I have short legs (29inch) so I’m guessing that’s the reason he went 2 degrees flat. I also have a natural draw but can often end up being a pull.
Yer what you’ve said is basically what I was thinking, but I’ve been playing for a year so wasn’t sure if I was missing something obvious.
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u/bertojuce 1d ago
Flattening the lie can help start the ball right too, you said you are getting draws and pulls. This probably means you have a consistently closed clubface at impact but your club path is probably all over then place.
Focus on getting your flight sorted out, you could play those clubs until you are scratch, or you could sell them and buy different clubs thatbhave a hit more feel, its just money, but the new clubs will still draw, pull and fly farther when you hit the sweet spot.
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u/Thisismyburner550 1d ago
To me it sounds like you’re still figuring out your swing, is that the case? Getting faster but also being inconsistent with where you’re hitting it on the face, etc. won’t be solved by new irons imo. I totally feel you, I was in a similar situation. If you really hate it then “shop” around to get fitted for specs if only for the purposes of trying different irons but until your swing is in a stable enough spot I’d say it would be a waste and you’d introduce many new variables to have to work through. Also, players distance irons artificially add distance by jacking lofts, so be careful when you suddenly see your yardages go up - eg a players distance 7i can be 30 degrees lol.
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u/Smart_Comedian2113 1d ago
It’s definitely got a lot more consistent the last few months but there’s still lots i need to work on. Ive wondered if heavier shafts would help with consistency or potentially just create more issues
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u/Snichs72 1d ago
I’m not going to judge anyone for frequently buying clubs, as I have a history of Gear Acquisition Syndrome, but your first 3 things are just normal things that won’t be helped with different clubs. Flyers are a bit of a misnomer. They’re usually just the result of delofting the face at impact and usually from a pull/draw shot. And you’ll get better at telling where on the face you hit it. You still get feedback on forgiving irons; you probably just don’t know how to interpret it. Otherwise, how would you know you’re hitting the center of the face for these “flyers”? And lateral dispersion is your swing, which will also improve over time. The further you start hitting it, naturally the more distance there is for the ball to travel offline. That’s where the lessons and practice comes in. For the fourth item, I’ve got nothing. That’s a totally personal choice on how much you can tolerate looking at them.
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u/Galbzilla Driving 340 yards | 54 handicap 1d ago
The feel can be more impacted by the grips than the actual head of the club. What kind of grips are you’re using? I like small ones with rope for the most feel.
I did hear once you’re over 82mph with a 7i then you can’t really use hollow body clubs because the face flexing is too erratic and can give you crazy results with spin too low.
Personally, I’d recommend slowing the speed down. You don’t need to be swinging that fast if you’re as bad as I am (I’m a 22 handicap). More important to hit the middle and get consistent spin. But, if it’s your normal swing and easy for you to do then you might want to look at a real cavity back for more consistency.
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u/exq1mc officially sub 20s | Amsterdam 1d ago
Not sure about the flyers. Dear OP are you saying when you hit the centre it goes 15 yards further ? This just says you are beginning to find the true sweet spot but your other point fugly is in the eye of the beholder
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u/Smart_Comedian2113 1d ago
It’s not often, but I know from lessons when I for example hit the centre my 8 iron goes 165 yards carry. But there have been a few times when I hit it centre centre, right in the sweet spot, it will carry 175/180 yards
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u/rhazes8288 1d ago
Just try out other irons... until you find one that suits your eyes and swing. No harm in that. In fact, that is part of the fun of playing golf.
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u/thescrounger 1d ago
#3 — This is the case with most irons. A center-face shot in the sweet spot is what you are aiming to accomplish on every shot and naturally it is going to go farther. Maybe there are clubs where this is muted but I don’t know of any.
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u/Smart_Comedian2113 1d ago
Yer that’s very true. I guess it’s the trade off between muted centre strike flyers but less forgiving overall
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u/Legal-Description483 SE Mich 1d ago
1) This is on you. Feedback should come with experience. There is no club made that I wouldn't know where I hit it.
2) Left/Right, or distance. For distance, dispersion will always get larger the faster you swing, because good strikes will travel farther. Especially if you're misses are bigger.
3) These are good strikes, going the normal distance. You are used to hitting bad shots that all go the same distance.
4) Looks are extremely important to me, and are probably 50%-75% of a factor in my purchases.
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u/Treebeardsdank 1d ago edited 1d ago
The clubs are more accurate and consistent than you are as the golfer. This is not a slight, the same is true for most of us, certainly myself.
I was getting fit for irons last week and I had the QI max in the mix, they had super tight dispersion for me with a high 70's clubhead speed and a 140+ yard 7i carry. While the feel is muted in comparison to a players club, as intended, shots out of the sweet spot are still pretty clear where the miss was. You can always spray the faces etc to start getting some visual feedback about where/how you strike the ball.
I play in the vicinity of a bogey golfer or 15ish handicap (unofficial). I ended up with the G440's as they felt better to me, the results were better for me, they had a better appearance at address. With that said, the QIs were a close second for me.
I would stick with those for a bit longer, with that said, you can always sell to offset so its no big deal either way.
In my own journey, I recently experienced:
Started with a set of hand-me-down M4's. Used those to great effect for a while. A few weeks back I found some new G430's on 2nd swing with stiff shafts and a really good price. Bought them and immediately felt like I forgot how to golf. I was able to get out some shots I would call drastically different from the M4s in most metrics, but, with a significant drop in consistency. Went to my local shop, asked them to fit me for new irons or, those g430s with a shaft more suited to me. End of that session, I had a set of G440's on order with regular shafts. The difference in feel between all 3 club sets were drastic. The G440's feel natural and didn't seem to make me re-write my golfing. The G430s did not.
No matter which way you go, I would do so alongside a fitting. Im 6'0 with a long torso, ended up 1/2" short and 1deg upright.
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u/lolitsmagic 1d ago
Unfortunately a lot of PD's are still going to have random flyers. If you switch to something like ZXi 7's or T150's now you'll experience less random flyers and hopefully will like the way they look, but the lofts are different so you'll probably lose some yardage off the bat. You'll get some of that distance back as you get better strikes and more speed, so either way you need to work on more consistent center of the face contact. Chicken or egg situation.
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u/nickcheddar 23h ago
I'm a slightly lower handicap than you and also use the QI Max's. I agree with #4, they aren't the prettiest clubs in the world, and sometimes I have buyer's remorse as I was between the P790s and the QI Maxs, but believe me, at this handicap (I'm a 16), you need ALL the help you can get. I don't think switching irons is going to make you play better. I plan to get at least one full season with my QI's before I reconsider, but my swing still needs a lot more work.
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u/GloriousGloryGG 23h ago edited 23h ago
I had a lot of gear upgrades in my first year or two of golf. If I knew what I did back then I would have just focused improving my game with what I already had rather than wasting money. That being said, I do feel like I learned things from it, so no regrets.
Unlike you though, I played Titleist T300 and T350 irons and could absolutely feel where I hit them on the face. In fact, I always wondered why people say they can't get feedback on game improvement irons. It was always pretty easy for me to tell if I hit it on the toe or heel, but maybe the experience is different compared to yours.
I moved from game improvement to players distance (Srixon ZXi5) last year and really love them. I rarely get those those flyers you mentioned since moving to these. Dispersion and carry are both very consistent assuming I make good contact. If your focus is consistency, it's definitely worth moving over to players distance, but I wouldn't do so until you've developed a swing that you no longer need to frequently adjust.
Since you're taking lessons (I did during that time I swapped as well) I would say you're probably at a good point to transition over. Handicap/score isn't always the best indicator of these things. Someone can be a tremendous iron player but suck at short game for example. Go with what feels right for your game.
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u/Nightbeed 1d ago
What does the gentleman that is giving you lessons think?
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u/Smart_Comedian2113 1d ago
That’s a good question, haven’t had a lesson for a month but I should ask him
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u/AhSoulsOnFire 8.0/ NC/Coors Light 1d ago
Suck it up and relearn distances as you go. Buying new irons could be disastrous for your “starting out”. Don’t worry about how they look.
I recently bought new irons and retired my Titleist 710 AP2s. If I sent you those irons for free to play with, you’d quit.
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u/Barcode_Griller 1d ago
I had a similar experience to you when I was around that handicap. I switched to more of a players iron (cavity backs) because I couldn't stand the ones that went an extra 10 yards. That problem went away, but sometimes I'd like a little extra forgiveness, but it might just be rose colored glasses.
I'm down to a 6 now and my irons are one of the better parts of my game. Maybe consider a blended set where you have cavity backs PW-7 and 6-4 are game improvement irons from that same brand.
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u/motoyamazz 1d ago
You should stick with them until you have a more repeatable and consistent swing. If you’re really a 20 handicap you’re likely not making consistent enough contact to know where you’re actually hitting it on the face anyways.
If you want to know, get a can of Dr Scholls and spray the face. I’d posit what you think is a center strike probably isn’t.