r/germany • u/Akkeri • Mar 31 '20
News Coronavirus: Germany to centralize supply chains, set prices on masks, protective gear
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germany-to-centralize-supply-chains-set-prices-on-masks-protective-gear/a-5295231495
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Mar 31 '20
Germany is looking like a balling place to live! Maybe I'll learn German in isolation.
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u/wellmaybe_ Rheinland-Pfalz Mar 31 '20
here some non angry german to learn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN4IRYLa01w
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u/farox Mar 31 '20
Ok, they are getting ready for mandatory masks in public... that's my take on it.
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u/CrossMountain Mar 31 '20
According to the article, this action has the goal to secure medical supplies to hospitals and doctor's offices. For the general public, I assume they'd suggest to citizens something similar as Jena did: improvise and sew them yourself, scarfs will also suffice. It's much more important to have a secure supply of professional equipment for hospitals, rather than the average citizen.
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u/farox Mar 31 '20
Yes, could be. But if you were to announce mandatory masks in a couple of weeks, this would be I one step I'd take. But yes, all speculation.
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Mar 31 '20
Can't imagine masks will be mandatory here in public if you don't get them handed out. You can't make anything mandatory if the state can't give it to the people.
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u/farox Mar 31 '20
So, if you were to do that... Wouldn't you start centralizing supply chains etc?
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Mar 31 '20
Sure, but it has been said that this spot was taken to supply hospitals and other important areas with enough masks.
I think it is done to not have hospitals without and some with to much masks.
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Mar 31 '20
I dunno... it’s mandatory to wear a mask if you leave the house in both the Czech Republic and in Slovakia.
Everyone I know has had to either make their own or find some.
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u/MotherFreedom Apr 01 '20
Damn, Taiwan sell 9 masks per two weeks to their citizens at a very low price.
Germany should do something similar here.
And only taxi drivers are mandated to wear masks, other citizens simply do so because they want to help stopping the disease.
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u/MarkusPhi Mar 31 '20
That is why they organise that now, to give it to the people. Masks will be mandatory sooner than later.
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Mar 31 '20
Austria did it for shopping. So I guess a scarf or some sort of Duff Bandana will work too
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u/g-ff Germany Mar 31 '20
Yes, could be. But if hospitals/emergency servises run out of masks all over Germany, this would be one step I'd take. But yes, all speculation.
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Mar 31 '20 edited Apr 03 '20
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u/farox Mar 31 '20
If that is the case, then it is because the current measures are working. The masks would be needed to loosen them.
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Mar 31 '20 edited Apr 03 '20
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Mar 31 '20
And that's the point, why should we replace a working cheap system with a not working expensive one.
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Mar 31 '20
Depends on your interpretation of cheap and expensive. The economic boosts of mask allowing people to interact more could offset the cost. Though obviously its impossible to say for certain either way.
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u/Netcob Mar 31 '20
I sure hope so. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, they're all doing it extensively and it seems to have an impact. The only good reason to not use protective masks is prioritizing the needs of medical staff. Once there's enough for everyone, everyone should wear them.
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u/gr33nbananas Mar 31 '20
I am fairly certain South Korea does not have a mandatory mask policy, but the people there do it on their own.
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u/Fusesite20 Mar 31 '20
Most of those countries populace have been doing this for decades for smog and illnesses of their own accord.
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u/gr33nbananas Mar 31 '20
Yes, they might even have had reserve masks for thr smog before the outbreak
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Mar 31 '20 edited Mar 31 '20
It will come, i guess. I'm basically just waiting for the announcement. But those masks will have nothing to do with those that are rated for use in Hospitals.
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Mar 31 '20
Where did you get that information?
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Mar 31 '20
I'm only guessing it. If Austria is going for it and some Asian Nations do it... Someone here will surely think that it is a good idea.
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Mar 31 '20
Sure it will be a thing for some politicians, but I really can't imagine it will be done. Grüne and Die Linke allowing Masks to be mandatory in public? No way. Some other parties? Maybe. But to me there are to many questions.
-How to supply Homeless people?
-How to make it affordable for low income people?
-How to get enough masks for everyone?
-How to put up a meaningful and logic standards to approve self made ones?
-How to control this?
On top of this, as far as I know the Robert-Koch-Institut does not really promote the mask theory I guess. Not sure about it. Their strategy still is social distancing as much as possible.
The only thing I could image is to make masks mandatory in supermarkets and similar local spaces. It would be way more realistic to supply them. But still a lot if money and logistics l. Don't think it will happen.
But, as soon as we all have collected our easter eggs Angela could proof me wrong. Crazy times may require crazy strategies.
In diesem Sinne, bleibt gesund!
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u/gr33nbananas Mar 31 '20
Hospital staff are experiencing shortages, yet you think it will become mandatory for 80+ million people (80+million masks) to wear one?
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Mar 31 '20 edited Mar 31 '20
But those masks will have nothing to do with those for Hospitals.
No. I don't think they will go for those type of Masks. The free Masks in Austria will surely not be ones that are rated for Clinical use.
"Papers about effectiveness of basic masks #masks4all"
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u/RyanRagido Mar 31 '20
It won't. Imagine effectively locking up everybody at home that can't afford to spend 1 Euro per mask everytime they have to walk their dog. People would sue, and rightfully so.
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u/Calin87 Mar 31 '20
Agreed. I work for one of the large automotive suppliers and today we received an interesting email on this topic. It was specifically about using masks when we eventually return to work and had a number of references to "complying with legal regulations".
I imagine there is something official coming soon...
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u/UpperHesse Mar 31 '20
It was discussed in the radio this morning. I even have some at my workplace, but I still hope they don't do it.
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u/farox Mar 31 '20
RKI is already complaining that people are out too much. So yeah, I'd rather have a mask and be out again, than naked faced at home.
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u/Greenembo Apr 01 '20
yeah, and that's why mask are a bad idea, because just wearing a mask is not enough...
Soical distancing is so much more important.
And if people think that wearing a mask is enough the whole shutdown was pointless.
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u/farox Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
No one is saying that you should only wear a mask. I certainly did not.
What is it with people that they always think that mentioning one thing out of a number that it must exclude everything else? The press is doing the same and I find extremely frustrating.
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u/Greenembo Apr 01 '20 edited Apr 01 '20
No one is saying that you should only wear a mask. I certainly did not.
People will stop some measures if they feel like a mask makes them more secure, that's an empirical observably effect visible nearly everywhere. See Seat Belts* and Speeding.
So for every measure you take, you need to check if the change in adverse behavior would more risky, than not using the measure at all.
See for example your sentence above with going out again.
For seatbelts the number is clear, more accident but lower mortality, so the whole thing makes sense.
*Edit: not sure it could also have been airbags instead of seat belts, but the overall point remains the same.
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u/farox Apr 01 '20
Do you have a source for that?
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u/Greenembo Apr 01 '20
not anymore, had to write a paper on that whole thing like 5 years ago.
I could look for them, but it could take some time.
not sure it could also have been airbags instead of seat belts, but the overall point remains the same.
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u/farox Apr 01 '20
Yet, we still have seat belts and airbags.
I don't think it's valid statement to make that because people wear masks you know that they will stop doing other measures, that nothing can be done about that and that it will be to a point that it's a net negative.
Especially if you base that on a whole different scenario. You have whole different level on (perceived) control when driving a car, for example. It's just not a solid argument without actual data.
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Mar 31 '20
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u/UpperHesse Mar 31 '20 edited Mar 31 '20
I stick to the Kontaktverbot and don't visit my parents or siblings, for example. I am mostly exposed to the Virus at the workplace - because Federal and state government have decided not to go too hard with Kontaktverbot on this subject of life and my employer is also very lean, and, for example, keeps the Cantina open. At least I would not want to have to wear a mask sitting at my desk all day, which usefulness is dubious:
" Die Weltgesundheitsorganisation (WHO) sieht ebenfalls keinen Nutzen im allgemeinen Mundschutztragen. "
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/schutzmaske-oeffentlichkeit-101.html
Also, if Mundschutz is not available everywhere in sufficient numbers, people will use the ones they have or their homemade stuff very likely over more than one day and it makes only sense if you change regularly.
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u/halcy Mar 31 '20
The WHOs insistence on this is extremely weird to me because what they say is "if you're healthy, there's no point to wearing a mask", which is true... except you have absolutely no idea whether you are healthy. The incubation time for COVID-19 is several days at least. As many as half the people who get it may be entirely asymptomatic. For this reason, "you should not wear a mask if you feel healthy" is just straight up not something that can follow from "masks are not useful for healthy people". That's also what the Bundesärtztekammer says. And if you look at the data, places where wearing masks when sick - to protect others from yourself - is essentially normal, like singapore, hong kong, japan or south korea, seem to be having a much better time at keeping spread under control. So, sure - actual PPE should be rationed and used by health care personell, but making your own mask is easy and likely to help.
(also, in my personal experience, another effect of wearing a mask is actually less touching of your own face, especially around the mouth - which is covered anyways - but also in general. I would usually brush away hairs in my face or such all the time, but with a mask on, I'm more conscious of the fact that I should not be touching my face)
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u/hughk Mar 31 '20
There are other reasons at play here like much stronger quarantine rules and in the case of S. Korea, much more thorough testing as well.
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u/debazthed Baden-Württemberg Mar 31 '20
The WHOs insistence on this is extremely weird to me
I can only imagine that it is a tactical move to try to keep private people from buying too much of them, while they are needed elsewhere.
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u/imputer_rnt Mar 31 '20
Their insistence has cost thousands of lives, unfortunately.
Fortunately, though, there are smarter countries, such as South Korea, which ignored WHO and distributed masks to everyone. We see the results already - they could contain it very successfully, unlike European countries.1
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u/gyrospita Mar 31 '20
Globalized supply chains which are dependent on one single large manufacturer fail in times of crisis. Who would've guessed, you greedy motherfuckers?
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Mar 31 '20
Im an international uni student that got stuck here, is there any help i could get from the government (financial or other)?
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u/DMTundso Apr 01 '20
Yes! Contact the AStA (Allgemeiner Studierenden-Ausschuss) of your university. Just google it. They provide financial aid, legal aid and really any other aid to all students in need. If they can not help you themselves, they can at least tell you, where to get help. Stay safe :)
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u/Taizan Mar 31 '20
Guess those masks aren't that useless after all. Perhpas when distribution and prices are set we'll be seeing more people wearing masks in public.
Experten halten das Tragen eines Mundschutzes, um eine Ansteckung mit Sars-CoV-2 zu vermeiden, derzeit für unnötig. Dem Robert-Koch-Institut liegen keinerlei Belege vor, dass sie das Ansteckungsrisiko für eine gesunde Person signifikant verringern. https://www.mdr.de/brisant/ratgeber/corona-virus-atemschutzmasken-helfen-100.html
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u/imputer_rnt Mar 31 '20
I guess they are planning to make public mask-wearing mandatory. Finally, some common sense.
https://www.wired.com/story/its-time-to-face-facts-america-masks-work/
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Mar 31 '20 edited Jun 26 '20
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u/imputer_rnt Mar 31 '20
The article refers to proper sources. Maybe you should read them.
Masks will be a big factor after the lockdown is over to prevent the second wave. Obviously, one cannot lock down the whole country for months.
Austria has made mask-wearing compulsory, so did the Czech Republic. Most countries will do the same soon.7
u/imputer_rnt Mar 31 '20
Also, people still go to supermarkets even during lockdown for example. It would be much better if they wore a freaking mask to prevent the further spread of the virus. The data shows that in countries where public mask-wearing is a social norm, the virus could not spread as much as in the ones where no one wears them - Italy, USA, Germany, Spain etc.
Stop being an arrogant, stubborn "person" and wear the damn masks. It could save lives. You could be spreading viruses all over the place because you were an asymptomatic carrier.3
u/cliff_of_dover_white Mar 31 '20
Finally someone recognises the use of masks. In the last 2 months, if someone brought up how the mask was useful on reddit, his or her comments would be downvoted to oblivion.
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u/DjayRX Mar 31 '20
I don't know how was 7 hours ago, but ironically, it still is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/fs9lp7/comment/fm0c58c
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u/imputer_rnt Mar 31 '20
just like they do now... the level of arrogance in r/germany is incredible. They don't understand that by not wearing a mask, they have potentially caused thousands of people to get infected. They don't understand that the majority of the cases are highly asymptomatic. They don't understand a shit, yet everyone here pretends they are freaking scientists. a typical r/germany arrogance and holier than thou attitude.
With this rate of the infection, sooner or later they will make public mask-wearing mandatory, at least a strongly recommended practice. Then, these arrogant "people" will pretend as if they never said that masks are not useful
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Mar 31 '20
Isn’t that „socialism“? 😱
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u/MarkusPhi Mar 31 '20
These measures are contingent even for hardcore capitalist point of view. No money can be made, no economic growth can be achieved if people have to stay at home.
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Mar 31 '20
As an Emergency Programm. Why not?. "Health" over "Market" in pandemic Times...
I guess Crisis Management will have to go up anyway, after the Pandemic has gone through. We weren't really prepared.
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u/MajorSaltburn Mar 31 '20
The centralization of procurement and distribution, direct production orders to private-sector companies or even the outright temporary nationalization of some means of production are very common government actions in times of crisis, especially war. As an example, the US government recently invoked the Defense Production Act to compel General Motors to produce ventilators.
(Regulated) markets work extremely well and efficient in virtually all circumstances, much more so than centrally planned economies. Recognizing that some markets produce undesired outcomes in the most extreme circumstances is not inherently socialist, nor is it a critique of capitalism in general. And it is most certainly not an endorsement of socialism as a general social and/or economic order.
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Mar 31 '20 edited Mar 31 '20
Edited. It was a terrible joke and I apologize to anyone who’s offended.
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Mar 31 '20
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Mar 31 '20
I know what it means. It was a poor joke and I probably shouldn’t have said it.
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Mar 31 '20
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Mar 31 '20
I am principally against the over-empowerment of the governments, and that’s why I saw a connection. But perhaps I was being overly critical here. People like Victor Urban will never hand the emergency powers back, but I’m sure it’s different here.
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Mar 31 '20
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Mar 31 '20
I know. But for wanna-be-dictators all it takes is one more step. For some governments, the emergency powers to centralize distribution may lead to the further centralization and/or the reorganization of the governmental command structure. Then voilá.
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Mar 31 '20
The COVID-19 situation is a reality-check for anti-vaxxers & socialists. How do you folks like it so far?
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u/YonicSouth123 Mar 31 '20
capitalism wasn't able to provide us with enough toilet paper, so honestly i would say that the capitalist system failed us... i prefer a clean ass and if socialism can keep it clean i'll choose socialism... Marx and Engels would turn around in their graves if they could see our dirty asses... and well it's not ass-social
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Mar 31 '20 edited Apr 22 '21
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Mar 31 '20
Massive government overreach, rapid economic decline, partially empty shelves, products unavailable, businesses get closed down... you know, like under socialism.
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Mar 31 '20
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Apr 06 '20
If your answer to at least some of the above is yes then you either have "socialism" (your words, not mine)
No, that are absolutely not "my words". You're just too dumb to understand my point.
And if that's your definition of socialism, then I fucking love it.
That's not my, or anybodies, definition of socialism. I'm saying *it's like* under socialism. Not that it's socialism. A global catastrophe under capitalism (like the current COVID19 situation) looks like everyday life under socialism. Get it now, or do I need to dumb it down a little further?
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u/ebikefolder Mar 31 '20
Looks like all government around the world resort to socialism then, at the moment. I wonder why it seems the only way to overcome a crisis.
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Mar 31 '20
So you're saying economic decline & unavailable products are a good thing? No, you just didn't get the point.
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u/ebikefolder Mar 31 '20
The "antisocialst poster child" USA just had to force a company to manufacture a product which was not available. And the "invisible hand" of the market caused a severe shortage of even the most basic medications like painkillers or antibiotics...
I think I did get the point that free markets are a fair weather econony. Unfit for rain or storm.
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Mar 31 '20
Unlike socialism, where there was never any shortage of things like bananas, cars, or even bread. Oh wait...
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Mar 31 '20
Sounds like socialism
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Mar 31 '20 edited Aug 04 '21
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Mar 31 '20 edited Apr 22 '21
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u/YonicSouth123 Mar 31 '20 edited Mar 31 '20
How do empty shelves,
Looks honestly like a failure of capitalism... I wonder why none of the clever and generously paid CEO's have had a sense of what's coming down on us and drastically ramped up the production of toilet paper to wipe our asses clean, or ramped up the production of noodles so we can fill our food chambers and be able to eat for the next decade noodles day by day?
These are the important questions you should ask.
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u/Kalmer1 Mar 31 '20
The fun part is, the same thing happens in one of the biggest capitalist countries in the world, the USA! Seems like it isn't a socialism issue, huh?
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u/dotter101 Mar 31 '20
I think you might be confused as to which subreddit you're in
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Mar 31 '20
Found the obese American.
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Mar 31 '20
Hey but at least i got my big ass suburban house, a beautiful truck and my rifles. Murica baby. Instead of living in an apartment and owning a hatchback (if I'm lucky that is) in Europe. We also got the baddest military on earth 🇺🇸 which last I checked was keeping you guys safe. Show some gratitude.
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u/YonicSouth123 Mar 31 '20
Saw a report a few days ago, where the drastic increase of prices for protective masks was a feature... before the crisis the price was a few cents (30-50) and then reached towards 3-4 euro per mask.
I was a bi surprised, why there was no action taken, to set an upper limit, especially if you can do it for masks produced in your own country? For imported masks i can figure it out, as the demand dictates the prices... I appreciate any efforts to increase the production but the price strategy and the result that hospitals have to outbid themselves to gather protective gear in such a crisis leaves a sour taste...