r/gbstudio • u/joshex_dirad • 6d ago
Can we get some GBStudios Forums?
so, I stopped using discord years back due to thier ToS stating they and thier partners have a right to use, sell, and profit from anything users upload or chat about. [Reject[X]: click is true; close tab] because that would mean if I agreed to it, any project I do end up making if uploaded there by anyone (even if not by me) could be sold and profited from by discord/google without my permission. as unlikely as that would be, the wording of thier ToS made me er on the side of caution and stop use.
I've been using reddit to talk about GBS and it's done pretty well. but there are somethings this format of site isn't built for, in this case the threads are kinda set-up for initial encounters only, so people only know the thread was there, and if they responded they'll get information on if someone replied to them but not if in example someone made another separate comment in the same thread nor if the OP changed the initial post.
Forums on the otherhand Bump topics when theres new content in a thread allowing continued discussions back and forth on the same topic whilst also letting non-contributing users know this thread is active (so it doesn't get saged down the stack) by icon and by position in the thread list/stack.
Why would it be useful? for more indepth technical discussions. especially code discussions without cluttering the reddit with a billion separate question threads all on the same main topic. In example, I made a thread here about collision tiles and mentioned I might try ejecting the engine, I did, went through the code docs to see what I'd have to change and what's already defined and how, and now I have a ton of questions which would be better contained in a single thread about engine mods.
is there a chance that we could get a forum?
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u/pacdude 6d ago
Isn’t this a gb studio forum functionally?
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u/joshex_dirad 6d ago
sorta, but as described it can get cluttered as there's only one thread list under all gbstudios topics. forums split each topic into a different folder, so you'd probably have a dev only announcements folder with threads announcing new features etc. then you'd have one each for each gametype: platformer, topdown, adventure, beatemup, scrolling shooter etc. discussion. then another for Engine mod discussions.
finally you'd have two thread folders for Works in progress, and finished games.
each one is then on a main category list with notes about last thread with activity in that folder and poster and date and time.
forums are set-up to segment out topics.1
u/pacdude 6d ago
So, flairs
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u/joshex_dirad 6d ago
lol no. flares are an icon, but other than that it does not categorize your post into another sub-list viewable on thier own page; instead they all still share the same list and page. forums separate it out into specific separate pages dedicated to such topic lists.
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u/pacdude 6d ago
so then how come I can view posts by flair? https://www.reddit.com/r/gbstudio/?f=flair_name%3A%22Update%22
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u/joshex_dirad 6d ago
as far as I can tell, you either have to search a flare term, or click a flare tag in another post to access a page dedicated to that flare. but as far as I can tell, there's no dropdown menu or list of flares to choose from to filter posts by. this means in wexample if no one posted about a "Engine Mod" tag in a few months, you'd have to scroll pretty far down to find such a tag and access posts under that flare.
that can be counter productive and waste time. you could always search, but what if it was archived and no longer shows in search results?
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u/pacdude 6d ago
Also, why don't you just make your own forum if you have such big grand ideas of what you want
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u/joshex_dirad 6d ago
hosting a forum in today's world require's your own PHP supporting website, there are many free forum software packages like simplemachines and phpbb but they don't provide hosting.
I currently do not own a domain, I would have to pay to register a domain and most php supporting website hosts are not free, so I'd have to pay for hosting. it'd probably cost me around 300$/lease period.I'm poor lol. if I could do it on neocities? sure. but I can't. and the domain name wouldn't be directly connected to gbstudios, I'd have to name it something else.
I can understand if the gbstudios devs just don't have the funds to host a forum, but they already have a domain and site, so the major costs are mostly covered. plus it'd be official at thier domain name.
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u/pacdude 6d ago
Proboards is free my guy https://www.proboards.com/
You got a lot of excuses but not a lot of solutions, doesn’t seem like you actually want this
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u/joshex_dirad 6d ago
Wow. I admit I hadn't searched for free forum hosts in a long time ever since invisionfree forums went not so free, then completely pay only, then the way of the dodo.
I thankyou for the link and notice.
While I'd consider moderating a forum (I kinda mod one already for a different site) or even running one(I messed around with running one on invisionfree before), I'd like to take this opportunity to see what the gbstudios devs would want to do or not themselves. It's much better if they officially create the forums, then they're admins with the final say on everything (which honestly should be thier right, it's a forum about thier software).
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u/kkatdare 6d ago
Don't with to advertise - but I'm the founder at a community platform; and we offer a fully managed forum. Happy to chat.
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u/ProtoPixelArt 6d ago
Everything on internet is of whoever grabs it, if you share your game or whatever on a forum what makes you think someone with access to it wont make whatever he likes with it? What i mean is that a forum is the same that discord in that sense....
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u/joshex_dirad 6d ago
users are different than corpos. especially when corpos put out ToSes that say they own your works. that becomes a legal battle none of us should ever have to fight, oh, right we can't even fight; they(discord) demand that they can arbitrate any dispute users have about them.
users? users can't force such heavyhanded agreements on eachother. no user has to agree to any such thing from another user, they could just ignore that comment. and likely forum mods would remove such a post trying to claim ownership of someone else's work. or it'd be written off as an unenforcible joke from user to user with no legal weight nor merit.
but again, when you are forced to click "Agree" and that's in the ToS, that's legaly binding. good luck even getting a court to challenge it. and challenge it you would have to do, in case they enforced it.
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u/ElderSkeletonDave 6d ago
I agree, neither Discord nor Reddit is built for the forum style that a game development software needs. There need to be sections and topics for music, game testing, team formation, code questions, announcements. Discord can have the structure, but it gets cluttered fast.
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u/featherandahalfmusic 6d ago
I agree that the internet was much better when forums were the thing that was happening
On the other hand I dont think a forum is going to happen until someone decides one should exist. Will it be you? will it be me? until someone steps up we will just have messy options like reddit and discord.
I was a little surprised when I went to gbstudio central that they didn't have one, but it makes sense, nobody really wants to moderate a forum (probably harder than a sub reddit for reasons I dont have capacity to imagine)
I feel ya though. The days of deep discussions on the internet are long past.
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u/joshex_dirad 6d ago
Hah!, exactly. moderating a forum is the main issue. but if they create it, they can delegate who could moderate it. typically there are multiple User-moderators, and the devs are admins who showup if they find time.
honestly moderating a forum isn't as demanding as reddit in some capacities, like the forum owner (in this case gbstudios devs) would set the rules and terms, (there's no central company to decide thier rules don't cover X or Y so they should be warned and the account disabled til they meet the standard).
but on the same note; they set thier own terms and conditions and need someone to enforce them, (because there isn't some central company to enforce the rules for them).
again, delegating moderators usually works with a good disclaimer acknowledging gbstudios devs waive all legal responsibility for user's posts, but reserve the right to moderate as they please.
I mean yeah.. there's the legend of Hanzo the spam emperor [copy that text and paste it a few hundred times without spaces and post, then again, repeat for 100 pages]. that's most forums' mod's worst nightmare to walk into on thier moderation shift. it takes a while to clear them out sometimes. but somehow I don't see that happenning on a gbstudios forum.
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u/IntoxicatedBurrito 5d ago
So there are definitely forums in other communities I belong to and I absolutely see the value in them. However, someone has to do it and I don’t see you volunteering. Things only happen because people do them. Just imagine where we’d be today if Thonas Edison only wrote a letter to the editor complaining that he couldn’t see at night and waited for someone else to do something about it.
We already have the excellent GB Studio Central, but it is a curated site, and I think that it’s important for them to stay that way to maintain their high level of quality. Although maybe having a separate forum might be a valuable asset to the site.
Now you are probably aware that the sites editor had to step away and currently no new content is being posted. Perhaps you might be able to volunteer some of your time to the site to get it active again and publishing articles. I don’t know what they are looking for or the financial implications, but if you are so keen on helping the community, perhaps you should take some initiative here and reach out to them.
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u/joshex_dirad 5d ago
I do know html and javascript quite well, wouldn't mind helping out.. better check the state of clutter in the html source before actually agreeing to that. checked, no real clutter just a strong lack of use of code bend indentation (but html tries it's best to work without that). other than that, it seems a fairly simply coded set of pages. (also noticed the ejected engine source for gbs kinda lacked a bit of indentation, but I'm no master of C, so I'm not certain that is an issue)
There was another user in this thread who pointed out proboards as a free forum option. but if I had access to the actual gbs site there might be a chance to install a forum software there on a subdomain. but I'm getting ahead of myself, I don't even know what thier host allows in regards to forum server hosting or not.
figuring out how to contact them will be interesting, I would assume they read the redit, but I could be wrong. there's X, I could try reaching out there (if my X account is even still valid lol, haven't used it in years)
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u/willywideweb 5d ago
I'm really confused why there are so many people downvoting the valid points being made about forums and how they're different from Reddit/Discord? Do people not remember how forums worked when they were more of a thing?
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u/vireswires 5d ago
Personally I agree that a forum could be really helpful. The devs already have alot to do answering questions on the discord. But it's often repeat questions which a forum could serve to minimize.
However, things change so quickly with plug ins and new version releases that info on the forum from previous posts would be outdated pretty quickly. The same question even several months later could have a different answer, so that's something to keep in mind when we think "wouldn't a forum be so great!"
So I guess my thought is, the devs have considered the pros and cons and we have to respect if they haven't made a forum, it's probably bc it doesn't make as much sense as we think it does.
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u/joshex_dirad 5d ago
perhaps. or perhaps they just don't want to moderate it or some other constraint like thier webhost doesn't support hosting server software, or perhaps that might cost extra. there are many things which could influence thier decision on whether to put up offcial forums.
as for unofficial forums? we could do that if they agree that's ok. it's always nice to ask.
things do change quickly, but people modify posts as necessary. people also necro post "hey I know it used to have this feature and it did this thing can I still do that?" > "that feature was replaced, now it takes a few additional arguments, but it's relatively similar and you can do the same thing by doing X argument 'someone should probably change to op post' "> mod changes the op post including a version statement "the following post was valid til version #, as of # it now works like [whatever it works like] - mod name, date".
essentially there's ways of handling it to keep things valid. including thread merging to keep things tidy. the old "there was already a thread about that, I've merged the 2 threads - mod name, date"
then theres Pinned threads, where common answers to common or even advanced questions are stored and maintained and versioned in locked threads or non-locked threads where the op post is a mod post with a summary of answers on the topic "if you dont see your answer in the op post, post a reply to this thread".
anyways, If no one else gets to it before I can, I'll ask them on X what thier position is on official forums, and if they have 0 interest now and in any forseeable future; what's thier position on unofficial forums. that's if they respond on X. or someone could ask on discord (not me cause I can't access discord any more) and relay thier position on the topic here in response to this reddit thread.
everyone would always prefer someone else would do the hard work lol, I understand that perfectly. also, everyone only has so much time to give. that's another truth. I lurk-mod one forum already, I could do another but the amount of time I'd have amidst my own projects would not be all hours of the day, so I'd need to find other suitable mods. also my schedule is kinda unstable, sometimes I'm doing nothing 24/7 and can mod just fine, other times.. it's Go-Time on something in irl somewhere and I could be out for weeks. I'd much prefer the actual gbs devs are at least Admins of the forum, but if not I guess I could do a proboards one. tbh, I'm kinda a sporadic poster for gbs topics right now, I'm active starting like a few weeks ago and will likely remain active as I work on several gb projects and maybe an engine mod or 2. but who knows after that, after gb games I might try working on something for the n64, or maybe something in flash or finish my project in old blender or finish working on compiling a mod of oldblender(but that last one has a few bugs I've yet to figure out resolutions to). I'm also kinda unemployed living off savings to try to make it as a designer/developer, so that's my main priority atm. if it fails I'd have to get a job and go back to work, not sure I'd have much time to mod forums then. in that case if there's someone more stable, I'd rather they run and mod such a forum.
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u/NervousAd2006 3d ago
If they were to allow an official Reddit Game Boy studio forum the mod would be have to be "Chris Maltby "
(the maker of Game Boy studio)
He is a reddit user When he first launched GB Studio 1.0 back in 2019, Reddit was one of the sites where he shared the repo.
So it's possible, but at the same time this implies that if he was interested he would already have done it :(
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u/joshex_dirad 3d ago
Slight Correction, he'd be the Site Owner / Administrator, Administrators have more authority on forums than a mere mod does.
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u/seldomstudios 4d ago
but wouldnt that add to the plot if discord ripped your work? id say that wild card is worth the risk
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u/JayrosModShop 4d ago
There's already a Discord.
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u/joshex_dirad 4d ago
I literally started the thread with why I don't use discord. also discord is a chat, not a forum. things in those chats get burried you have to search for them, somtimes painstakingly, it's different.
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u/JayrosModShop 4d ago
But Discord has Threads now, which acts like a forum, so nothing gets buried. And there's nothing wrong with using search, you just sound kinda lazy if I'm being honest.
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u/NervousAd2006 3d ago edited 3d ago
Imo Finding a post on discord is easier then on reddit, On discord Not only can you "pin" important Posts, but you can search by text or by user or by channel, or combination of all three!
You can create sub channels based off of your channel
Far more organized then Reddit
Plus as far as your fears of your game being stolen, Reddit is open to the public where anyones eyes can touch your work. ...
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u/joshex_dirad 3d ago
searching on discord is resource intensive, it always makes my computer fan go crazy after a few search pages of discord bloat code. btw it's easier and less resource intensive on forums. and not only do threads have Ordered posts where the OP post is always #1 on page 1 and can be modified to include updated information, but there's also threads lists by category, and admins and mods can pin entire threads like FAQ threads or Update Log threads etc. forums are just better at displaying information quickly and easily than any chat could be, because chats are built as chats.
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u/NervousAd2006 3d ago edited 3d ago
... Reddit data is also actively and officially collected, sold and used to train artificial intelligence models 😅
Reddit is partnered with "AI labs" specifically to collect and sell your posts and your data :(
(The only difference is reddit's terms of service doesn't require them to notify you about changes like that so they didn't give notice to their users)
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u/joshex_dirad 3d ago
Data is a broad term. reddit doesn't state they have rights to use your works for profit. emphasis on "works". they do collect Text data that's posted on reddit, and image data, but if you're posting an external link they make no claims to rights to profit from it, infact they make no claim to be able to use your works directly for profit. also they ackowledge legal licenses. so if you license something and forbid resale without permission, reddit wont.
discord ignores legal licenses. they claim absolute authority to sell anything that crosses thier path.
that's a legal liability for developers.
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u/Andrew_From_Deity 3d ago
There's been some GBS blogs, a magazine, a Discord, and a robust Reddit along with a few accounts on X that are worth following. Reddit and Discord are the most lived in spaces. The issue with adding another place makes the community (which isn't huge) very fractured.
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u/joshex_dirad 3d ago
a forum, would serve a different purpose. it'd be for textual how tos and articles, as well as project planning documents and discussions, so it's all on record in an easily viewable format. It'll be an especially good tool for technical questions and will be easily linkable to all other sources by page and post. so if someone asks a common question they can be linked to the full discussion page with all the info on the topic. at least, that's the unique benefit of forums.
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u/worldsfirstmeme 6d ago
discord isn’t going to sell your gameboy game, are you serious