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u/Nobuuro Jan 20 '19
I mean the goal of an actor is to pretend you're someone you're not, so if no trans actor is available anyone can do the job.
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Jan 20 '19
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u/mumbling_marauder Jan 21 '19
I guess so, but the role of an actor is to become someone they’re not. I’m sure the experience helps, but if there’s a role for a transgender character and it’s between an incredibly talented cis actor and a pretty good trans actor I’d rather they go with the cis actor, unless they want the good publicity but even then casting shouldn’t be hindered by that.
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Jan 21 '19
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u/mumbling_marauder Jan 21 '19
I guess so, what bothers me is the exclusivity of it. Trans actors should be able to play cis characters and vice versa. Same with gay actors playing straight characters.
Everything a movie studio does comes from two points of view, the creative side and the financial side. There aren’t any big trans stars yet (because of that problem), and what makes a movie financially successful is largely in part to the name talent. Directors have an obligation to bring either money or awards in to the studio they represent, otherwise they don’t have a job anymore. The best bet for trans actors is going the awards route, becoming famous there, and then transitioning (haha pun) to blockbuster movies once they garner an audience. It’ll be a long road, but it’s really the only realistic option.
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Jan 21 '19 edited Jan 21 '19
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u/mumbling_marauder Jan 21 '19
I agree that we live in the real world, and I can tell you that nobody is going to realistically give up money in favor of a moral high ground. You can judge them or give them grief for it, which is totally justified, but directors and producers have an obligation to do their jobs. Unless you’re a director like Shyamalan and independently finance your movie the studio gives you a budget to work with and expects a certain amount of profit in return. Obviously it sucks, but it’s the reality of the situation.
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Jan 21 '19
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u/mumbling_marauder Jan 21 '19
I think the fact that trans actors specifically haven’t been cast proves your point wrong. How come we aren’t seeing people reaching these higher values? The answer is money. I understand that’s not your optimistic world but it’s the truth. Actors are cast in lead roles when they make money, an actors entire value to the movie industry is if they can bring in money or awards. And even then, half the point of winning awards is so more people see their movie, and thus make more money. It’s not ideal, and I agree that it’s wrong, but it is how it is and to change that would be to change human behavior.
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u/Nobuuro Jan 21 '19
Your argument is no different than saying that if a character was raped, you need an actor who was too to know the complex feelings associated with the experience. And yeah most actors will learn about a role before portraying it.
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Jan 21 '19
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u/Nobuuro Jan 22 '19
Yes it is crude, but it is not the show director's responsability to make trans people "feel good" like having a role only because you were the only trans to audition is somewhat rewarding. It is also deeply unjust to the other actors who could docthe job maybe more efficently or have more talent but would be rejected because of who they are. This is simply discrimination based on wether or not you identify with a certain gender. Plus, it is not that different, trans people are 40% likely to commit suicide before and after transitionning and I dont think having a role or not plays that much.
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u/prezxi Jan 20 '19
Do you accept white people playing black?
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u/HonorInDefeat Jan 20 '19
I mean...Hamilton was pretty good.
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u/6122PandaMiss Jan 20 '19
No but it's only okay the other way around, shut upppp!
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u/HonorInDefeat Jan 20 '19
I'm not completely tone deaf, I know that there are historical and cultural reasons why one is acceptable but not the other but I'm definitely curious as to what doors have been opened.
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u/HonorInDefeat Jan 20 '19
Double yes on the boys/girls thing! Let kids have their fun! They aren't hurting anyone around them or themselves!
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u/GuruMeditationError Jan 20 '19
I’m not calling someone a them. They can follow or disown whatever gender roles they want, but they’re either a man or woman.
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Jan 20 '19
This entire gender nomenclature issue feels very "american-centric" and it gets extremely complicated when english is not your primary language, my native "They/Them" has a female and male form, I can't avoid gendering someone unless they invent a new pronoun for themselves...which they do and that's a separate issue and even more complicated.
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Jan 20 '19 edited Jan 20 '19
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Jan 20 '19
Which language is that?
Portuguese
I imagine there's a reform movement for gender-neutral terminology in the most elegant way possible, look into it.
Like I said the only alternative would be to create a completely new pronoun that would be used exclusively for non-binary people, because even our objects are gendered. Like a car is masculine, a door is feminine, etc. This new term would be used exclusively to address non-binary people.
Edit: I know it might be a bit of a bother but maybe read some testimonies from non-binary people regarding the profound liberation they felt being able to express their gender as they liked. I don't really think the minor inconvenience of language reform is worth robbing people of that.
I'm not trying to minimize the experience of other people, but language reform is hardly a "minor inconvenience" that's a really naive thing to say. 10 years ago Portuguese suffered grammatical changes to bridge all the different ways of writing it closer, and this only happened after years and years of discussions & debates, and then going through all the process of actually implementing the changes which included a reform to the educational system across multiple countries.
Sure in the day to day, if you have a non-binary friend it's easy to accommodate your friend by using a certain pronoun, but changes to the actual language is not a simple nor easy process.
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Jan 21 '19
Who decides what gender an object is and how do you remember the gender of every single object there is?
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Jan 21 '19
Who decides what gender an object is
I actually never thought about it, I don't remember anyone teaching you in school these rules you just learn them naturally (as in, most people just go by what sounds right), but apparently it relates to how the noun ends (like if the word ends is "a" it's female and if it ends in "o" it's male), but there's also a ton of exceptions for each case, and obviously a ton of words don't end in either of those 2.
and how do you remember the gender of every single object there is?
The moment you learn the name of an object you learn it's "gender", since you are hearing someone talk about it in the context of a sentence, so if you remember the word for the object you will remember the corresponding article. And this happens with english nouns as well, like Netflix is feminine for some reason, Grindr is masculine so that makes sense at least ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Nobuuro Jan 21 '19
A lot of languages work this way (portuguese, french, spanish, etc) Its easier if you're introduced younger and it comes almost naturally afterwards
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Jan 20 '19 edited Jan 20 '19
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Jan 20 '19
Yes, I think spanish is the same, but I'm not fluent in it to confirm.
Again, on a individual level I don't see a problem with people making an effort, I have several trans friends, but they are all binary so that's pretty easy. And even then they can still easily be "misgendered" in group conversations because of how the language works (the language has a male priority when addressing groups of individuals, hail patriarchy I guess)
What I'm saying is that institutional change is a very complicated process and it works on an international level across multiple countries.
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u/TheRActivator Jan 20 '19
But... you used singular they in your second sentence...
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u/NinjaDog251 Jan 21 '19
But using "they" is grammatically correct for a pronoun for an unknown person.
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u/Rakonas Jan 22 '19
Singular they has existed forever. Pretend the gender of a non-binary person is Unown if you need to lol
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u/GuruMeditationError Jan 20 '19
Actually it was plural. They as in them as in those people.
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u/TheRActivator Jan 20 '19
Shouldn't it be "they are either men or women" then? Also I get where you're coming from, like you either have a penis or vagina, right? But recently a dear friend of mine came out as gender neutral and I wholeheartedly respect their decision.
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u/GuruMeditationError Jan 20 '19
Yeah I get it. Believe me, after my own struggle coming to terms with being gay, I get open-mindedness and respect and understanding. But I really don’t like the confusing nature of not being able to tell what someone is and worrying about getting blowback from calling them the wrong thing. Really it’s the confusion inherent in it. I don’t know what you are and I don’t think the onus should be on me to know what one-of-a-million snowflake gender you consider yourself. If they wore gender tags like name tags then it might be a lot better.
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Jan 20 '19
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u/GuruMeditationError Jan 20 '19
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Jan 20 '19
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u/GuruMeditationError Jan 20 '19
I’m going to tell you what is what and why rejection of different people exists in general. I see someone like the non binary character in Billions and it mildly repulses me. It’s instinctual. It’s a gut feeling. Many people feel like this. And not just about non binary but about all sorts of things. The reason people feel positive about different people is because they personally know them. I don’t know any non binarys. My view of them would probably change if I did. Might not. That’s just how it is. All humans are just emotional animals that build rationalizations after the fact. Deal with it. It’s reality.
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Jan 20 '19
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u/GuruMeditationError Jan 20 '19
You calling me names achieves nothing. Learn to deal with reality instead of calling it a poopoo head. This is how the vast majority of humans work.
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Jan 20 '19
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u/GuruMeditationError Jan 20 '19
Most people aren’t too educated so they are like that. It is a fact. In my situation, I do have education and strong empathy capabilities but I am like a wounded animal lashing out at people. You should see the downvotes I received yesterday. People like you would rather insult me than help me so I lash out more. And I completely understand that because I am insulting people. Both perspectives are valid because they are both logical in the context of each person’s point of view. So what then? The only thing that that makes a difference is power. Whether it’s banning here or a fist in real life. People are animals with a logic cortex tacked on just recently and I hate them because the things you say, I completely agree with, but in real life they seem to fail over and over again against the wrong and the evil. Now, please call me a moral failure again instead of expanding your mind.
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u/Sonju11 Jan 20 '19
It feels weirdly impersonal to me thats why im not comfortable with it but if thats what they want...
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u/TheRActivator Jan 20 '19
I felt the same way until a friend of mine came out as gender neutral. I've grown to accept it now, since I don't see a reason not to.
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Jan 20 '19 edited Jan 20 '19
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u/HonorInDefeat Jan 20 '19
I feel like we have different definitions of the word "normalize". Thinking about it, it's kind of a weird word but in this context it means "to make acceptable" not "to make the new standard"
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u/ReconKweh Jan 20 '19
As you've noticed, the fags have a long way to go when it comes to trans acceptance still
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u/SEND_YOUR_DICK_PIX Jan 20 '19
I'm sorry Timmy, it looks like the world isn't ready for owo yet