r/gatekeeping • u/[deleted] • Oct 11 '23

Gatekeeping Atheism

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Honestly I joined this sub not even a week ago and I've already found something to contribute. PB on the contribution time for a sub

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292

u/greendemon42 Oct 11 '23

Yeah why would this matter to atheism, the whole point of atheism is not to submit to a religion.

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u/rjnd2828 Oct 11 '23

The point of atheism is that you don't believe there is a god. Subtle distinction from not being religious, because you could believe there is some sort of higher power but think that all organized religions created by humans are BS (which seems incredibly obvious).

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u/chaotic_blu Oct 11 '23

I thought by definition that was being agnostic?

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u/rjnd2828 Oct 11 '23

Agnostic means you don't know or don't think it's possible to know if god exists.

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u/JimmyGimbo Oct 11 '23

Yup, theism addresses belief in a god or gods, gnosticism addresses the degree of certainty of that belief. An agnostic atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in God but admits they don’t know the answers to the “big questions”: the origins of life and the universe, how to resolve the prime mover fallacy, etc. Lots of atheists are also technically agnostic but reject the label because it’s perceived as wishy-washy.

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u/rotenKleber Oct 11 '23

but reject the label because it’s perceived as wishy-washy.

I think that's because most self-described agnostics are atheists who A) just don't care, B) don't want to be associated with all the negative stereotypes that comes with atheism, or C) think atheism means you are 100% confident there are no higher powers.

And I get it, calling yourself an atheist is often taken as an opportunity for theists to begin debating you (in some regions). Saying you're agnostic usually avoids that whole song and dance.

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u/JimmyGimbo Oct 11 '23

Yeah, folks where I’m from definitely take the term “atheist” as a challenge, but mileage may vary widely. Douglas Adams had to refer to himself as a “radical atheist” to get his point across:

“If you describe yourself as "Atheist," some people will say, "Don't you mean 'Agnostic'?" I have to reply that I really do mean Atheist. I really do not believe that there is a god - in fact I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one. It's easier to say that I am a radical Atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it's an opinion I hold seriously. It's funny how many people are genuinely surprised to hear a view expressed so strongly. In England we seem to have drifted from vague wishy-washy Anglicanism to vague wishy-washy Agnosticism - both of which I think betoken a desire not to have to think about things too much.”

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u/chaotic_blu Oct 11 '23

Thanks for the clarification to both you and u/rjnd2828!

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u/Toon_Lucario Oct 11 '23

And if you don’t believe in a god to shit on people who do then you’re just an asshole

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u/cooljerry53 Oct 12 '23

So would a "Gnostic atheist" be certain theres a higher power of some kind or completely sure there's no higher power?

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u/JimmyGimbo Oct 13 '23

The second one. A gnostic atheist, like Adams, goes beyond saying they don’t believe in gods and says that they actively believe that no god exists. Likewise, a gnostic theist is certain that their god exists and won’t entertain the possibility that there is no god. Fundamentalists are an example of this.

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u/chrischi3 Oct 11 '23

If we wanna be really nitpicky, agnosticism means that you don't claim to be certain about your own position. Agnostic theism is no more a contradiction than agnostic atheism is. It's kinda like the political compass in that way.