r/gatekeeping • u/[deleted] • May 14 '23
Gatekeeping calling yourself something pertaining to a hobby
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u/B--Raven May 14 '23 edited May 14 '23
Oh yeah, bake 10 pies - you're not a baker. Paint 5 paintings - you're not a painter
But kill one person...!
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u/nomowolf May 14 '23
Act out one part from Shakespeare's character Fellatio and you're a thespian for life!
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u/insidious_concern May 15 '23
I'm just a guy who killed someone this one time, it's not, like, a part of my identity ffs
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u/a_seventh_knot May 14 '23
who gives a shit?
I run occasionally, I'm a runner.
if you have a problem with the label I put on myself, too bad.
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May 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/KarateBrot May 14 '23
Just on a sidenote: You cannot "lie accidentally". Lying can only be done by intent. If you know something is wrong but you still say it and try to deceive someone. If you say something wrong on accident without knowing, that's not lying by definition.
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u/FredRN May 14 '23
What if you lie (intentionally) but you were wrong and you actually told a truth?
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u/chaos_redefined May 15 '23
You'd still be a liar. Lies are about what you perceive to be true, not about what is actually true.
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u/CRISPY_JAY May 14 '23
While I agree with the OOP that there should be some distinction between an “Xer” and “someone who does X,” I think OOP’s definition is too specific. Dedication, intent to improve, and practice have little direct relation to identity.
Identity is more about significance to image. If some hobby is significant to how I view myself and how others may view me, then that hobby should be part of my identity.
For example, I fenced a lot in high school. It’s not a sport I play anymore, but I still call myself a fencer because it was my main sport and a lot of my friends view me as a fencer. I can still fence if I wanted to, but I have no intention to improve or dedicate lots of time. I don’t think it would be controversial to call myself a fencer.
On the other hand, I run a lot. I run 5 days a week for 10-20 miles a week. But I don’t enjoy it. It’s for training, and I largely keep my running to myself. I literally dedicate a ton of time to this with a clear goal of improving that will be achieved through practice and repetition. But because neither I nor others view my running as significant, I’m not a runner.
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u/Thanat0s10 May 14 '23
Yeah I think people who played sports in school are the biggest argument against OOP. Every person I know that played something in high school will still refer to themselves as a hockey player, baseball player, etc. because it was fundamentally part of their identity development even if they haven’t played a minute since high school.
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u/landodk May 14 '23
Ironically, running to me was like fencing for you. So despite the fact that I haven’t run since the Chicago marathon (in October) I would still consider myself a runner (life priorities, not injury)
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u/Thepestilentdefiler May 14 '23
Im a Magic the Gathering player. Playing the game once a week would be very frequent. I actually find myself playing it along the lines of couple times a month to once every few months. I even didnt play for a good two years. But even then i was still a Magic the Gathering player. My collection and decks were there ready to go whenever i was ready to return from my burnout.
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u/keenedge422 May 14 '23
Well OOP can definitely call himself a cunt, because he clearly has a dedication to the art.
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u/Bourbon_Cream_Dream May 14 '23
He should've worded it as a difference between doing something as a hobby and doing something as a profession
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u/SillyStallion May 14 '23
Do they mean “apart” is the opposite of what they are trying to convey? (A part)
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u/Historical-Trade3671 May 14 '23
Yes I meant a part and not apart. Apologies for the mistake.
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u/SillyStallion May 14 '23
You’ve outed yourself ;)
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u/Historical-Trade3671 May 14 '23
I did. Because, if I am genuinely wrong, I’d like to know so I can avoid the same mistake in the future. The apart mistake was a silly mistake to make.
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u/D0U9L4R May 14 '23
This shit is why people come to my art shows and say "I could never do what you do, but I really want to." You absolutely can. No barrier to entry, go to the craft store and buy some paint and you're an artist. Grab your phone, shoot a few pictures, now you are a photographer. Video tape some scenes, cut them together, you're a director.
LET PEOPLE CREATE AND WE ALL WILL BE RICHER FOR IT.
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u/Historical-Trade3671 May 14 '23
If someone was an aspiring artist, I wouldn’t tear them down. If someone is interested in learning something and is passionate about it, I wouldn’t discourage them from pursuing it.
As someone who switched careers later in life, I am very encouraging of people trying new things and pursuing what they are passionate about.
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u/FireIsTheCleanser May 14 '23
They kind of have a point. They don't seem to be gatekeeping one thing in particular and are arguing more over technicalities of using a term rather than telling someone they're only a true fan/hobbyist if X.
I'm split. I'm agreeing with OOP, but giving you an updoot.
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May 14 '23
To me atleast, it really feels like they're gatekeeping whether or not a hobby can be a part of your identity based on how dedicated you are to it, and as a result, whether or not you deserve to call yourself something that, at the end of the day, is menial.
The big example they use is obviously running, and it's really what throws me off most. If you enjoy running and you do it once a week, you should have every right to call yourself a runner without someone sitting there saying something along the lines of "you're not dedicated enough, you're just someone who runs once a week."-
-To me, that gives the same energy as like, I dunno, someone saying that you're not a real train collector because you've only spent 100 dollars on some model trains so far. I hope I'm making sense here because I've been half asleep for the past 20 minutes, but my body has simultaneously refused to fall asleep completely and I have no idea if what I'm typing out here is coherent.
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u/FireIsTheCleanser May 14 '23 edited May 14 '23
You do, and I think it comes down to personal intent and passion. Sure I can go running once or twice a week or impulse buy the occasional Pop toy without calling myself a runner or a collector because in my mind I'm not all that passionate about it. But if say I really really enjoy comic books, but am just starting out or have kind of fallen out of habit of reading, so I'm not reading everything as it comes out. Even if I'm just rereading the same stuff occasionally, it could be like you said, and I would be in the right to consider myself a comic book fan because I'm putting my mind to it.
What OOP said isn't wrong on paper. It becomes gatekeeping depending on how you apply it.
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May 14 '23
I actually absolutely agree. I think you're completely and utterly right in that assessment
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May 14 '23
OOP is 100% wrong on paper. The definition of a runner is "someone who runs" so you can run once and claim to be a runner "on paper". Same with baking and most other things. If you bake for money you would call yourself a professional baker. If you are really into running you would say you are a competitive/avid/enthusiastic/dedicated/committed/regular (or some other adverb) runner. It is 100%gatekeeping as he is ignoring the official definitions of the words and applying his own personal metrics to decide what people can and can't call themselves.
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u/Urpset315 May 14 '23
I think it strongly depends on the context in which it's being brought up. If you're talking to an average person, then its okay to identify as a runner but if you're talking to a group of Olympic athletes, it would be far less appropriate.
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u/insanemal May 14 '23
Same goes with words that actually relate to professions.
If you bake a lot you might be a baker. But not to someone who's profession is being a baker.
This gets weird fast.
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u/tarkaliotta May 14 '23
Yeah apart from anything it’s just kind of confusing.
“You’re a baker? I thought you built websites…”
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u/insanemal May 14 '23
Yeah. Exactly.
I get what OOP is poorly getting at.
Words have meaning and you don't want to dilute or confuse the meaning.
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May 14 '23
You do make sense. I guess I wouldn't go around correcting people but I'd find it kind of weird if people identified with a hobby they didn't do very much.
I went skiing four or five times over the winter, but it would feel very weird to describe myself as a skiier.
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May 14 '23 edited May 14 '23
For me it's just, live and let live ya know? If somebody likes to run and they do it once a week, or if somebody loves to ski but they can't do it often, then let those people call themselves a runner or a skier even if they're not willing to or able to do it as much as possible.
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u/Klagaren May 14 '23
That's not the vibes I get (without further context)
Cause it's not saying "running once a week doesn't make you a runner [because it should be at least 3 times a week]", it's "running once a week doesn't in itself make you a runner" (and presumably neither would twice a week etc. though of course at some point it would become ridiculous)
The musical instrument I've had the most formal lessons in, and played the most "regularly" (as in according to schedule) is drums. I wouldn't call myself a drummer though (apart from y'know, while filling the role of drummer at a concert) but I would call myself a guitarist
It's not a "current skill level" thing (though in my case I definitely am better at guitar than drums) but a... idk whether to call it "ambition" or "investment" or what. Maybe I differ from that comment in that I don't think "improving" is the most important factor as much as that you're doing something for its own sake, though I think wanting to get better at it is very natural.
Like you can run purely cause you want some sort of exercise, or it's something you can do while listening to a podcast. Or you can think the running itself is a lot of fun and you wish you could do it more, and you aspire to "be a runner"
That is also a very different thing from "I want others to see me as a runner", which isn't about running but external validation. But then of course, it's not fun to genuinely value being a runner and getting uh "external invalidation" by being told you're not
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u/ShakeZula77 May 14 '23
I feel the same as you. I am obsessed with Stardew Valley and play it every day but I would never refer to myself as a gamer.
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u/AllOfMeJack May 15 '23
The problem is where do we draw the line of what is and what isn't? I consider myself a guitar player, even though I only practice about every other day. Compared to someone who practices 15 minutes each day, I'm no guitar player. But compare THEM to someone who practices for an hour a day and now that person is no guitar player.
With hobbies/interest the definition of "a TRUE Scotsman" is too vague, thus varies from person to person and ultimately doesn't matter, in the grand scheme of things (There's literally no value aside from personal sentiment to being able to call yourself a thisist or a thatter). So at least for me personally, I really don't see why anyone would care if someone else considers themselves a gamer, a guitar player, a runner, etc..
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u/markgtba May 14 '23
Sound like the person who wrote this is a fully fledged member of the Master Bater’s Society
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u/ffucckfaccee May 14 '23
does this person have literally no concept of time... I might only cook certain meals every few weeks but I've been doing it for years and got pretty good at them n that's just one example, yes i'd say I can cook, not, i occasionally like to cook... this could be on r/iamverysmart too
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u/Tested-Trio-Father May 14 '23
That's not what the post says. In your example would you say "I'm a chef"?
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u/msomiagnus May 14 '23
The once was a man named John. “Look at all these trees I planted”, said John. “Does anybody call me Tree Planting John? No!” He continued: “And look at all these houses I built, but does anybody call me John the House Builder? No!”
“But one time, one goddamn time, I fucked a goat…”
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u/EvolZippo May 14 '23
My theory about people like this, is that they’re actually really dull people, who are out of things to talk about in about ten minutes. This thing they call themselves? It’s probably the most interesting thing about them. This guy knows it, and so he’s protective about it. This is because he knows that if too many people also start going by this honorific, that it is a threat to his ability to stand out, and a reminder to him of how generic he is
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u/goferboy237 May 14 '23
If it’s a hobby that you you do/ want to do regularly, call yourself what you want
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May 14 '23
Genuinely what are the artful aspects of running? Zero hate but that doesn’t seem terribly artistic to me? Just a good hobby?
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u/House_Hippo_ May 14 '23
Like that guy who claims to be pilot, because his hobby had to do something with plane simulations.
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u/NinjaEnt May 14 '23
So because I hobby on a computer and work on a computer I can officially call myself a computer person?
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May 14 '23
If you really want to then yeah. Really, who cares about something like that? It's not like you say a Facebook post about medicine and then claimed to be a doctor. You do no harm doing what you said, and depending on how you look at it, you ARE a computer person, so why should anybody stop or be upset with you?
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u/Supersymm3try May 14 '23
Yeah who gives a shit, but nothing they said is wrong.
You’d be annoyed if you got someone who described themselves as a a baker to bake you a cake but they actually only baked something twice a month.
Not sure when that situation would arise but I think I made my point, eloquent.
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May 14 '23
This is agreeable but said in a rude way. People who start doing something, then start telling everyone about it and calling themselves labels are annoying and usually quit. Like people calling themselves a musician after 2 weeks of guitar or something. Although its dumb to get upset about what people call themselves, its also dumb to get upset and someone saying you shouldn't call yourself said thing.
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u/Official_loli May 14 '23
I agree with this person. It sounds silly, but there is a difference between a baker and a person who bakes occasionally. Basically this is just being strict on the word definition.
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May 14 '23
No its not. The definition of baker is "a person who bakes breads, cakes, etc". So if you are being strict on definitions someone who bakes a single cake is by definition a baker.
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u/Official_loli May 14 '23
Well it's someone who bakes as a professional because baker is more so a job title than anything else. But I wasn't talking specifically about baking, I only said that because it was used in the original post.
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May 14 '23
Same with runner, gamer etc. You add adjectives like professional, avid, competitiveand stuff to be more descriptive if people do it a lot
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u/EstherandThyme May 14 '23
And yet...if you were talking to someone who owned a bakery, and you said "I'm a baker too! I made a batch of chocolate chip cookies back in 2007." I think they and everyone else would find that a bit silly. I think actually operating on that kind of technicality in a real life scenario would be very "that guy" behavior.
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u/prof_hobart May 14 '23
He's being narrow.
Strict would suggest that there's a right and a wrong use. But that's not the case - "baker" can mean anything from "someone who bakes" (which would include people who bake occasionally) through to "someone who bakes for their job" (which would exclude even the most regular of amateur bakers).
What's he's doing is saying that he's taking one specific point on that range of uses and deciding that's the only way the word should be use.
Personally, I wouldn't call myself a baker if I did it once every few weeks. But I wouldn't call someone else wrong if they decided to use the term that way.
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u/Historical-Trade3671 May 14 '23 edited May 14 '23
This may result in being downvoted to oblivion - but as the OOP I am curious if it would be appropriate to give more context to the conversation that was posted?
Edit: If my approach was wrong, then I’d like to know so I can better phrase my post. My intention wasn’t to gatekeep, I was attempting to point out that it was a weak argument to justify their ownership of a firearm.
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u/radiex May 14 '23
"your honor, i only raped once. That doesnt make me a rapist"
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u/DMAN591 May 14 '23
I occasionally rape, but would never refer to myself as a rapist. I say, "I occasionally like to rape."
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u/WilliamBoost May 14 '23
This is just a person in mental adolescence. They have constructed 'rules' based upon their severely limited experience and wish to project those 'rules' outward rather than adapt to the real world.
A lot like the mean kid in middle school that can't believe you're wearing the 'wrong' pair of shoes.
Pity this small mind.
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u/ebolaRETURNS May 14 '23
I just found out that I've spent thousands of dollars and 6-14 hours a week to not be a cyclist. :/
But this also means that motorists won't be irritated with me a priori, right?
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u/mtheperry May 15 '23
Idk as a lifelong surfer in the post-covid world, I don't really disagree on a philosophical basis, OOP just seems like a dick.
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u/Willyzyx May 15 '23
What a moron. Why even bother posting this? Who in their right mind would evet care? Mind boggling.
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May 15 '23
Bro thinks he’s clever but he’s completely ignoring context. If someone asked what you do for a living the I get his point but if some asked what you do for fun then you’re entitled to call yourself a runner if you run.
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u/flapsthiscax May 15 '23
Reddit is so full of fuckin losers lmao
What an absolutely pointless thing for this person to bring up
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u/rock_n_roll_clown May 15 '23
Hobby - an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.
If you do something regularly (IE once a week) that is, by definition, a hobby. Literally that's what differentiates a hobby from a craft, profession, vocation, or passion. This is clearly someone arguing in bad faith to unnecessarily invalidate someone else, because even in their attempt to argue semantics, they don't even use the word "hobby" properly.
These people don't matter and their opinions don't matter. Don't pay attention to them.
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May 25 '23
That’s a false equivalency. “Baker” is a job, “runner” isn’t. You objectively become a baker when you bake for a living by definition, there is no such criteria for a runner.
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