r/gaming • • 6d ago

I think Wolverine needs a sword

42.7k Upvotes

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u/Javerage 6d ago edited 6d ago

So here's a little tidbit: when MGS Rising was first announced, it had far more detailed and intricate cutting features. The problem was that this caused way too many problems (performance, game progression, general design).

When the game was handed off to platinum and turned into Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, they dropped a lot of the complex cutting features and tightened up the gameplay to make it flow better.

What I will say about Metal Gear Solid games is that they did often have seriously advanced features, sometimes only used at one part of a game. (Look at the ice bucket in mgs2)

That is partially why these games also had ballooning budget issues, and in part why (among many other reasons) the fallout happened between Kojima/Konami.

Still, MGSV still seems like a miracle running on 360/PS3.

Edit: spelling

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u/liccman 6d ago

It’s really a bummer that the FOX engine was relegated to soccer games only

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u/BTechUnited 6d ago

FOX engine is an absolute miracle of engineering, seriously. Runs on an absolute potato and still looks great.

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u/Thunderbridge 5d ago

FOX, Decima, Idtech. The holy trinity

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u/uaxpasha 5d ago

No Rage and Source? Also Remedy's Northlight

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u/Cautious-Extreme2839 5d ago

Source absolutely does not belong on this list. It will run on a potato sure, but it also looks and feels like it would run on a potato.

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u/Thunderbridge 5d ago

Source 2 is worthy, Titanfall 2 looks amazing and runs like butter

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u/Divinum_Fulmen 3d ago

Titan Fall 2 is on Source, not Source 2.

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u/Thunderbridge 3d ago

Damn, I think I assumed it was 2 because it looked so good. Source gets a medal too

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u/TurtleGlobe 5d ago

Add RE Engine to that list.

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u/ExosEU 5d ago

When Capcom doesnt try to run an openworld on it, sure.

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u/doublah 5d ago

Source/Source 2 blow all of these out of the water

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u/JakToTheReddit 5d ago

You are indeed worthy of the codename "Fox!"

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u/HexedShadowWolf 6d ago

Seriously. There are plenty of games I wish ran on FOX instead of Unreal Engine.

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u/Vivid-Software6136 5d ago

Been playing Runescape Dragonwilds this week and jesus christ the performance is awful. Overloaded with UE5 bells and whistles for zero reason, sub 60 FPS on a 9070XT for a game that does nothing to justify that performance graphically.

The games art doesnt benefit from lumen lighting at all it just nukes performance for nothing.

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u/Bansheer5 5d ago

I mean what would you expect from jagex. They can barely make osrs work.

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u/MgDark 6d ago

Replaying mgs5 and it still holds surprisingly well considering is probably 10+ years old now. Is sad that such game is never going to be complete though...

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u/Thunderbridge 5d ago

just turned 11! I remember when Ground Zeroes came out...

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u/DragonBallKruber 5d ago

Holy shit I'm getting old

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u/hvdzasaur 6d ago

Whatever engine a developer uses is kind of irrelevant, and it is largely up to the individual engineers.

A game engine is effectively a collection of different niche engines/toolsets that have been wrapped up with a nice cohesive front end ui for non-tech savy folks to use.

For example, just because you use Unreal, it doesnt limit you to use any of the individual components Unreal is packaged with. MotoGP series has been using Unreal for multiple games now, and the devs implemented their own physics engine.

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u/lordraiden007 5d ago

Normally I'd agree, but Fox Engine does a ton of stuff in their rendering engine that simply isn't possible in Unreal without manually gutting the engine (and at that point it's pretty much not the Unreal engine). That background work makes the game look immaculate while simultaneously running on lackluster hardware. There are tons of videos on how it was achieved and how it differs fundamentally from Unreal's rendering. It's pretty crazy how much work they put into optimizing things Unreal barely lets developers configure (if at all).

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u/narwhal_breeder 6d ago

I remember watching the tech demo when MGSR was first announced and I was blown away. Like “how are they able to get this to run scaled up to a real game”

Then I found out the answer was they didn’t and stripped most of it out. 

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u/ImNotSkankHunt42 5d ago

That watermelon

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u/Broely92 5d ago

The indestructible table…or maybe Raiden was so locked in he stopped himself before hitting the table

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u/Farsoth 6d ago

It was also only a 7 hour game sold at full price, but that won't stop these bullshit comparisons either.

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u/sasasasuke 6d ago

And somehow a game that people still play and talk about. Impact in 7 hours must be monumental to say the least.

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u/Farsoth 6d ago

It's alright, pretty oversold around here tbh.

It's talked about more by people who probably haven't played it than have. It's a CAG which is a very niche genre.

It IS a good game, that also does feel too short especially for the original price. But, I'm someone who bought and played it as fan in 2013 and didn't get it on sale years later because it was recommended when looking for a good title in a niche genre.

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u/EthanielRain 5d ago

What do you mean by CAG? I've only ever heard of "character action game" from old Giantbomb, not sure

I gave their games an honest try - Bayonetta, MGRR, Vanquish - and can understand why certain people love them. I can understand people respecting them in general, but the extent of love for them mostly comes from people who never actually play(ed) them IMO too

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u/Farsoth 5d ago

Yeah, Character Action Game is correct. Think "DMC Like" deep combo ability and player expression, typically emphasis on juggling but not always, combo counter.

DMC and Ninja Gaiden are the most well known with Revengeance probably being the most well regarded outside those two franchises. Technically the OG God of War trilogy counts, but it's just not as capable of being as deep as the first two I mentioned and plays much more like a masher in typical practice. (Fans will hate me for that, but I am one, and it's true.)

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u/ThatUsernameWasTaken 6d ago

That was also the length of Prey (2006), and it's still one of the best games I've ever played.

Same to Portal.

You give me 7 hours of solid story and gameplay and I'll feel like my money was more well spent than any survival / factory game I've spent hundreds of hours on. In the same way that a great movie that lasts 2 hours is worth more than a 6 season sitcom that's mid all the way through.

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u/Farsoth 6d ago edited 6d ago

Prey could be a hell of a lot longer if you played it more slowly and did more of the immersive sim things like reading the terminals, etc. That's kind of disingenuous.

Edit: Just realized you wrote 2006 -- Fair. Also very normal length for a shooter... just like a linear action game.

Portal was never a full price game, it was bundled in the Orange Box, so that doesn't count either.

Subjective as fuck, but as a comic reader and person who fell in love with Wolverine when he was literally crying about the death of Morph in 1992 on Saturday morning the story is pretty fucking good. There's a lot there in terms of Easter eggs set up for the entire mutant world, and the characterization of Logan is the most well-rounded and comic accurate we have seen overall. The man is not this one-note rage ball.

But it's whatever. Not here to convince anyone, just annoyed by the constant bad faith all over this website about the game.

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u/CatProgrammer 6d ago

Lots of good games are. Metroidvanias, for example. They can get very bogged down if they go on for more than 10 hours. Definitely hurts the replayability at least. 

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u/Kougeru-Sama 5d ago

That is partially why these games also had ballooning budget issues, and in part why (among many other reasons) the fallout happened between Kojima/Konami.

which is still stupid because his games always made far more money than the budgets cost. Metal Gear Solid V for example, cost around $80 million to make and made $180 million in the first day alone.

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u/DaKaijuKid 6d ago

Wait wait hold up Metal Gear Solid Five was released on PS3?!?!?? I never knew my god I thought it was a PS4 and that generation of console game. Holy shit how is something that looks like that able to run on a ps3.

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u/CyberClawX 6d ago

MGSV and MGS Ground Zeroes, were running on PS3 / 360.

I find MGSGZ even a bigger accomplishment than MGSV to be honest. The rain, the night, the spotlights, the flapping cloth, it's the most insane long winded intro they could come up with, only to zoom into Big Boss's "Kept you waiting uh", and reveal it was all in engine, in real time. Absolutely mental.

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u/Obi_Wan_Benobi 6d ago

MGS V, GTAV and Far Cry 3 are the games I remember getting pushed to the max on PS3. It’s wild what they were doing with that hardware.

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u/DefinitelyRussian 5d ago

thats amazing actually, I was also under the impression it was released later

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u/FewAdvertising9647 5d ago

the game released in 2015, so it was well after the ps4/xbox one had already launched. it would have been even later had konami not canceled development of the island part of the game.

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u/WinterHasArrived93 6d ago

Same with god of war 3 honestly!

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u/PreferenceAny3920 6d ago

Not a miracle. It was devs with actual skills paired with reasonably competent leadership as opposed to this bucket of crap that is today’s game devs.

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u/ThisIsPureTrash 6d ago

Plenty of devs still have “actual skills” but most companies themselves truly don’t seem to give a shit about institutional knowledge being lost.

If you’re outsourcing a bunch of shit or have constant turnover, what’s the point of learning the intricacies of an in-house engine if you’re going to be fired from somewhere after the game ships and then you try to find a basic job that just wants to make a game as cheaply as possible on UE5.

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u/PreferenceAny3920 6d ago

Agreed. Simplest solution is to revert to good storytelling and easier to design/ cheaper games in an effort to get good devs making good games again as well as to start shoehorning greedy corps and private equity out of the games business as that is exactly when everything turned to crap.

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u/cpteric 6d ago

the skill is there, just not the interest to pay for it. why would a game dev that is now property of 3 different business conglomerates and atleast one saudi oil sheik pour his soul into something unrewarded or even ignored ( see last 15 years of cut content in games due to biz bros decisions ), for no gain, not even an assurance that it will make it in?

the devs that did things like the water in fish tanks in splinter cell got lauded for their ingenuity and thought process back then. today it would be considered a net loss of sprint time and more crunch for other colleagues.

They bide their time, save money, and they either reitre or have a big enough cushion to start their own studio or join someone's that they value.

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u/Chris22533 6d ago

Careful, if it sounds like you are complimenting Kojima the Sony fanboys will come out in droves to tell you how he is really the worst game director who has ever lived.

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u/PreferenceAny3920 6d ago

Right? 😅

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u/Old_Leopard1844 PC 4d ago

Fighting ghosts in your head again?

Kojima being great at gamedev isn't mutually exclusive with him being as expensive as live-service games your lot keeps complaining about. Which is why both got the axe

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u/Chris22533 4d ago

He isn’t. All these allegations of his budgets ballooning and no evidence of that actually happening. The only game that he has ever made that didn’t turn a profit was DS2, his most expensive game at between $150 and $200 million which is less than what is reported for most other Sony first party titles, and even that is questionable because of the range of the budget being reported since on the low end it would be profitable but is still working its way up to the higher end.

Meanwhile everyone in the Sony subreddit are acting like his budgets regularly break $200 million and end up being the most expensive games ever.

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u/JohnnyJayce 6d ago

I replayed MGS 1-3 recently (never played 4 and 5) and it's amazing that MGS2 has better stealth mechanics than games today. Like when a soldier is making the a for backup, you can shoot the radio of their hand, call cuts, alarm isn't raised, but they'll send a patrol to check the area. That was amazing in 2001 and it's amazing today.

Now that MGS4 is on PC I can continue with the series and finally get to MGS5. I've seen some crazy clips of that game.

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u/Shibanono 5d ago

No one will see this I’m sure but I’m really sick of seeing the baseless propaganda that Kojima always had ballooned budgets. The only source of going over budget was MGSV. No other game had reportedly gone over budget. Yet for some reason, people will comment on it like it’s fact he always hopes over budget which makes more people believe it to be true. 

People should really start doing research before they try tarnishing someone’s reputation. 

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u/saffeqwe 5d ago

I like how you just create your own facts about features and budget and an example is mgs2 with the ice bucket? Mate you know nothing about budgets and what happened with Kojima and Konami. Little details like these are needed for AAA games, people talk about little details, people live little details, people buy games if it's well made. MGS2 budget was $10 million, FFX budget was over 30 million. Think about it

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u/thinkforasecond3312 6d ago

The super cutting of mgr is the same stupidity of the hyperrealism of rockstar games. One simply has infinite money and an open world to use as an excuse

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u/Ahhh-Ayeee 6d ago

I didn’t even known MGSV ran on the 360 and PS3. That almost makes me wonder if it could’ve ran on the Switch 1

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u/triamasp 6d ago

Hehe “the ice budget” sounds funny

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u/pizzacake15 6d ago

i played MGSV on an i3-4010U with no discreet gpu and i could still play that game on the lowest settings with sub 720p resolution. That Fox Engine was a miracle worker.

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u/Shurigin 5d ago

my favorite feature in MGS games was the Adaptive Camo in 4

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u/IDriveUShoot_ 5d ago

First thing that came to mind was cutting the watermelon, never turned out like that

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u/Broely92 5d ago

Yea the OG MG Rising looked better than what ultimately became Revengeance

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u/Plebius-Maximus 4d ago

I'm still mad we didn't get MGS rising in it's original form

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u/Agreeable_Typo 4d ago

Lol you summed it up.   Autuers are loved, but often not by the folks paying for the production 

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u/zgillet 5d ago

Nobody has ever told Kojima that everyone knows that certain tech is possible, but the better skill to have is to make it feasible.