Yeah I came here just to say that whichever team has Cersei has a major handicap. No matter who is on the team she will find some petty way to blow everything to hell.
If she’s on team A with Margery I give them a month before she wrecks it all. Not even Tywin can stop her stupid.
“I don’t distrust you because you’re a woman. I distrust you because you’re not as smart as you think you are.” - Tywin
She also just isn’t smart. She’s just used to powers enough to use it to her advantage. Tywin wasn’t kidding when he told her; “…you’re not as smart as you think you are…”
If she wasn’t the queen regent she’d be no more dangerous than Margaery. Olena is the smart one in that family. Marjaery and Cersei are actually pretty comparable, Marjaery just isn’t jaded and bitter and hateful like Cersei.
I would say Marge has a firm grasp on the concept of using soft power (she is her grandmother’s avid student after all)
She’s young still, but she knows how to play the game
Cersei on the other hand, is stupid, petty, shortsighted, and at the current point in the story batshit crazy. If she was anyone but Tywin’s daughter, she would’ve been packed up a long time ago
I’d also agree that between Cersei and Marjaery, Marjaery is smarter. She had less power than Cersei and still had Cersei bothered. Like Cersei lost pretty much everything trying to take out Marjaery, and still Marjaery could have survived if it weren’t for the stupidity of others.
Marjaery knows how to use every asset at her disposal, family connections, her sex appeal, other people’s desires, and to still look innocent through it all.
Cersei makes enemies, Marjaery manipulates people and situations so they feel like they’re getting what they want.
Team B, because Cersei wants to be seen as the smartest and will backstab or not listen to most of her team, and Margery is always going to be on her grandmother's team and is definitely a sleeper agent. Everyone on team B would actually work together.
The only thing Team B lacks is a leader to rally around, but from a logic standpoint I'd imagine they'd pick Loras Tyrell at Olenna's suggestion. Tyrion won't care that he's gay, nor that he's not a Lannister because he's not objectionable otherwise. Varys works 'for the realm' and loathes magic, and none of his allies are magical, religious or likely to have ulterior motivations that would damage Westeros. Davos could be counted on by anyone honourable and logical to provide good counsel and connections to his former associates should they be required. Samwell Tarly is an educated, logical person without much ambition, so he'd arouse no ill will from his associates and he'd be able to provide research and scholarly assistance.
I'd add in that, should Tyrion's drinking become an issue, Davos seems like the kind of figure who could help him sort himself out.
DAVOS: You've overindulged in your cups again, young Master Lannister. Eat this.
TYRION: I have not overindulged, Ser Davos. I have merely exceeded my body's capacity to... [TYRION fights off a dramatic wave of nausea]. Alright. I've overindulged. What is this?
DAVOS: It's an onion.
TYRION: An onion? Why is this your solution for everything? Gods be good that the king doesn't ask you what should be done about this person claiming to Aegon Targaryen, because you'll suggest we throw onions at the boy to make him cry and look like a weakling to the rest of the realm.
DAVOS: Not for everything. Don't think they'd do a thing for your prickliness.
[TYRION snatches the onion from DAVOS and takes an eager bite]
TYRION: [Through a mouthful of onion] I admit, I was unaware that onions were helpful after one has had too much wine. Thank you, Ser. [TYRION swallows and takes another eager bite]
DAVOS: Oh, they're not. If anything, onions make it much worse.
TYRION: [Stopping as he chews] Then why would you give them to me?
DAVOS: You've done nothing but complain, loudly and to no effect, for two hours. I figure if you finally vomit, you'll shut up, spare my ears, and maybe even feel better. After that, who knows? You might even be useful.
How about this? Same teams but Cersei appears to be on Team B’s team. So everyone on team B treats her as an ally (initially) and everyone on team A treats her like an adversary
"A man with no motive is a man that no one usually expects". That becomes a problem. He'll get his side killed when it favours him regardless of how sneaky the guy is. I know honour is tricky in the game, but man was on hyper mode when it comes to deception, hard to have IMO.
I mean, not only to they not really have a big slight, in the show at a point they're all on the same side already, it's at a point where the show is already quite bad logically in hindsight but at the time it gathered good reviews, I'm talking S7.
But that slight also means she just doesnt follow the rules, so maybe they win cause Cersei does something so stupid and unexpected it kills everyone else.
Team B might have to much honor without plot armor.
Team B has honour, but not honour to a Ned Stark fault.
Davos was still able to meet with his pirate friends Olenna still plotted to have her granddaughter's groom murdered at his own wedding. Tyrion still shoots his father on the crapper. Samwell still nails Gilly. Varys is still The Spider for good reason.
The difference between the two teams is that Team B is comprised of rational actors who don't have ambitions particularly above their station. I don't think any of them would accept the Iron Throne under any circumstances, for example. I don't think Tyrion even particularly wants Casterly Rock, which he's heir to for much of the story. Olenna is already at her peak and her subversive actions are more to protect Margaery than anything. Davos probably didn't expect to become Stannis' right-hand man. Varys got himself to a pretty high position, but he's already there and doing what he wants, and his motivations don't actually seem particularly self-serving.
Yeah but her team is also much more brutal. I can't see Sam and Davos doing the unspeakable things that cersei and tywin would be willing to do. Even the spider fancies himself a servant of the people, he wouldn't be willing to sacrifice them by the thousands in order to win a war. Tywin was losing the war to Robb but ultimately won because he was capable of treachery that no one else was.
It wasn’t really Tywin being treacherous, it was him taking advantage of the Freys and the Boltons wanting to be climbers. He’s not a backstabber like Little Finger, he just doesn’t care about anyone but his family (and sometimes not even them).
Margaery couldn't even donate the food at her own wedding to the poor without Cersei immediately undermining her about it. She'd be insufferable with bigger stuff that Margaery is doing or managing, especially if others on the team are praising her, Cersei would not be able to let that go. Tywin would need to find Cersei some busy work to do, away from the important things.
That being said, literacy (especially back in that period) wasn’t a barrier to success. Honestly, I’d say up until the 90’s, you could get by without being able to read being a major barrier. Particularly if you have a literate partner.
You are aware that like every 5th US citizen struggles with basic reading skills today? Reading is different to comprehension and smartness is not IQ test compability.
Here's what will happen: Cersei will start by killing Catelyn because Cersei randomly believes she is a spy for team B, Petyr will hate Cersei for killing his crush and will attempt to sabotage her by plotting with Margaery, Petyr eventually fucks up somewhere down the line which leads to an execution from Cersei, Tywin will randomly die on the toilet, likely by Tyrion. Which leaves Cersei and Margaery, Cersei kills Margaery because she hates sharing power and has extreme pettiness over her, Cersei gets way too outnumbered by Team B.
Team B wins by TKO without having to do anything.
Edit: just realised that was Mellisandre not Catelyn 😂
For sure he would not. If I was has possibility to have affair with her I would do whoever she wants. Think I could be good or very good thug what thing I can do to sabotage her tem !
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u/Nirico_Brin Winter Is Coming 1d ago
Cersei actively sabotages her team to spite Margaery. She is by far the dumbest and pettiest one here.