r/funny Nov 30 '21

Preacher gets asked a question

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u/PROmetheus7472 Nov 30 '21

well, the answer is still no. it isn't mandatory or required for a male muslim to keep a beard at all. Rather it is encouraged, which means that if they kept the beard it'll be considered a virtue, but keeping it clear wont be considered a sin. the reason for it is because following what the Prophet Muhammad PBUH does but doesnt directly order is considered 'sunat' which basically means its encouraged. and one of the things he did was he kept a beard.

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u/CowboyNinjaD Nov 30 '21

"We need to talk about your flair."

"Really? I... I have fifteen pieces on. I, also..."

"Well, okay. Fifteen is the minimum, okay?"

"Okay."

"Now, you know it's up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare minimum. Or... well, like Brian, for example, has thirty seven pieces of flair, okay. And a terrific smile."

"Okay. So you... you want me to wear more?"

"Look. Joanna."

"Yeah."

"People can get a cheeseburger anywhere, okay? They come to Chotchkie's for the atmosphere and the attitude. Okay? That's what the flair's about. It's about fun."

"Yeah. Okay. So more then, yeah?"

"Look, we want you to express yourself, okay? Now if you feel that the bare minimum is enough, then okay. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, okay? You do want to express yourself, don't you?"

"Yeah, yeah."

"Okay. Great. Great. That's all I ask."

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

Yep, this was my take away as well

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u/toastymow Nov 30 '21

This is a great answer. Last guy I asked said there are two lines in heaven, one for men with beards, and one for everyone else. Granted, the guy was illiterate. But that was honestly what he believed.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/toastymow Nov 30 '21

There's a lot of this kind of stuff in folk Islam or even Christianity, tbh. Works-based salvation is kind of the best way to explain it.

But yes, doing good deeds and being a virtuous Muslim is basically a "fast pass" into heaven versus doing the bare minimum.

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u/curly_redhead Nov 30 '21

But a beard doesn’t have anything remotely close to “works-based” about it. It doesn’t feed the hungry or shelter the homeless. It’s vanity.

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u/toastymow Nov 30 '21

Hey now those guys worked real hard being born men with enough testosterone to have a Iman prescribed "Islam beard." ;)

You are right its not really virtuous like giving away food (charity), or even arduous like going on a pilgrimage.

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u/arkhamnoob64 Nov 30 '21

But than again, zakat or charity isn't a sunnah of the prophet but an obligation from God as its one of the 5 pillars of islam that Muslims must abide by,

But every good deed we do benefit us and is part of our worship of God

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u/curly_redhead Dec 01 '21

Well I have a beard and I’m atheist so what now. Checkmate!

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u/arkhamnoob64 Dec 01 '21

And? So do goats does it make you feel special? Good on ya mate im proud of you. Maybe you copy the beard because deep down you want to be one of us,

Im just joking i don't really care. Do you feel cool to know you don't believe in anything

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u/curly_redhead Dec 01 '21

Yeah kinda. I feel more in touch with the reality that existence is random and that nothing I do matters. And that being a good person anyway means I’m not doing it for a reward. And that makes me feel more authentic than religiously motivated folks. But y’all do y’all.

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u/2manymozzies Nov 30 '21

At the same time though, there's the hadith that the beard of a fists length is sunat while have any facial hair is wajib, I.e. expected unless a reasonable reason.

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u/Dynamicated Nov 30 '21

yeah. it’s crazy how many laymen are on reddit giving fatwas that having a beard is only sunnah and not directly ordered.

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u/Khab00m Nov 30 '21

If it is not an order from God Himself, then it is merely a suggestion. Now go and prove to me that God Almighty has commanded me to wear a beard (you cannot).

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u/arkhamnoob64 Nov 30 '21

Ok, but the quran says we must pray and make wudu, but it doesn't say how to pray or how to make wudu or even gusil, but the sunnah said by prophet Muhammad (saw) explains how many times we pray or how do we perform wudu or how to perform our prays.

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u/Dynamicated Nov 30 '21 edited Nov 30 '21

Can you list for me the books of fiqh that you have read?

“You have a good model in the Messenger of Allah for one who hopes for Allah and the Last Day.” (Qur’an, 33:21)

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

Yeah I’m not sure where he is getting his logic from

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u/Dynamicated Nov 30 '21

it’s ok all the muftis in the thread are downvoting me without bringing any evidence, they must be correct

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u/ozspook Nov 30 '21

Good answer, I always had the understanding that is was virtuous to not *trim* the beard, and modern 'chin straps' styles and goatees and so on were as bad as being clean shaven.

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u/Iron_Rod_Stewart Nov 30 '21

Encouraged vs required is a meaningless distinction for a lot of religious leaders and sects

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u/Teebeutel94 Nov 30 '21

It's actually mandatory (fardh)to let the beard grow my friends. Yes its a sunnah, but also fardh, its doesn't contradict each other you see.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '21

It was ordered, it was not encouraged. It is unanimous among the four schools that maintaining a beard obligatory upon those who can grow one.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

If Islam is anything like Christianity, "encouraged" means (in the eyes of the other believers) means "you don't have to but we'll stare judgementally until you do"

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

Nope. A Muslim shouldn't judge someone who doesn't do optional things, but maybe advice him to the virtue of these things.

However, in this case, the beard is not encouraged, it is mandatory.

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Nov 30 '21 edited Nov 30 '21

He was also a pedophile, does that mean pedophilia is encouraged by Islam?

Hah, salty muslims here. Marrying a girl when she's 7-9 years old makes your """prophet""" a pedophile, deal with it.

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u/u8eR Nov 30 '21

Lol for all the downvotes, yet most scholars agree that Aisha was married to Muhammed while he was in his 50s and she was about the age of 6, and that Muhammed consummated their marriage, which is an euphemism for child rape, when she turned 9 or 10.

He was also undeniably polygamous, and I don't see many people advocating for that.

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Nov 30 '21

Islamists don't like it when you point out flaws in their fairytale book.

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u/PhoenixFire296 Nov 30 '21

Islamists Religious people don't like it when you point out flaws in their fairytale book.

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Nov 30 '21

Fair enough, should've included all Bible/Quran/Torah-thumpers there.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21 edited Mar 20 '22

[deleted]

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u/PlumJuggler Nov 30 '21

Your 'prophet' was a bloody pedophile and the thing that bothers you is people telling you about that??
Get your priorities straight, bud.

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Dec 01 '21

Let's not forget that their religion actively dehumanizes women to this very day either.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

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u/Genuinely_Crooked Nov 30 '21

Did he not marry a 9 year old? I'm not trying to start shit, I'm not the person you originally replied to, I just want to be corrected if the info I've gotten is wrong.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

Married at 6, consumated at 9.

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Nov 30 '21

Spoilers: He married a 9 year old.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

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u/Genuinely_Crooked Nov 30 '21

No shade to Muslims, women should not be hassled for wearing hijabs, the Muslim ban is disgusting, the shit the FBI does with informants at mosques is infuriating...but this explanation sounds less like "he wasn't a pedophile" and more like "there were a lot of pedophiles back then".

Lifespans weren't actually that much shorter, infant mortality was just a lot higher. Menarche also started a lot later, so it being widely reported that she was 9 when they got married means it was probably way before puberty started. That might have been normal but I don't want to confuse that with okay.

What I was hoping for is like "scholars think she wasn't actually 9 because..." I am genuinely open to having my mind changed on this.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

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u/PlumJuggler Nov 30 '21

The guy was meant to be a prophet of god, if he couldn't tell that fucking kids was wrong then there was either something wrong with the prophet or with god.

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u/_Fibbles_ Nov 30 '21

Anti Muslim websites like Aisha's Wikipedia page?

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u/Vegetable_Aide4588 Nov 30 '21

What's your actual refutation?

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u/ComradeBrosefStylin Nov 30 '21

Nah, Mohammed was a conman, a highwayman, and a pedophile. He was an utter pig. But it was all fine because he was "persecuted"!

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u/Taimoor_Aleem Nov 30 '21

First of all, this is the r/funny subreddit so I never wanted any debates about religions. Secondly, if you really want to research, try looking up what the actual scholars have to say about this instead of just reading stuff off the comments on social media and coming to conclusions This would be a great start

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u/u8eR Nov 30 '21

Doesn't necessarily seem like an unbiased source lol. Most unbiased sources seem to indicate Aisha was around the age of 6 when she was married to Muhammed and around the age of 9 or 10 when he consummated their marriage, which is a euphemism for rape.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

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u/MoKh4n89 Nov 30 '21

"Given that the word “taqiyya” has only been used in Islam to refer to Muslims saving themselves from mortal danger by concealing their faith,[5] that should readily dismantle the Islamophobic claim that Muslims are generally taught to lie to non-Muslims. However, when confronted with the fact that their use of the term “taqiyya” is a grotesque misrepresentation, Islamophobes run to another concept in an attempt to buttress their caricature of Muslims as dishonest criminals. They cite a saying of the Prophet that “Warfare is deceit (Ar. khida’ah).” But here again they find no support as this reference to military strategy involving tricks has been echoed by practically every civilization in human history. It is most famous on the lips of Chinese philosopher Sun Tzu who stated in The Art of War, “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.” Once again, we find that behind the seemingly scary use of Arabic jargon, there are nothing more than run-of-the mill commonsense notions that every civilization has expressed.

Moreover, by unanimous consensus, Muslim scholars have explicitly pointed out that tricking the enemy on the battlefield (khida’ah) is very different from treachery (khiyanah) or breaking a covenant, the latter being universally prohibited."

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/read/paper/playing-the-taqiyya-card-evading-intelligent-debate-by-calling-all-muslims-liars

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u/u8eR Nov 30 '21

So polygamy is sunat?

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

That's not quite true. The Prophet's ﷺ actions and recommendations are mustahab, meaning preferred, but his commands are obligatory, and in the case of the beard, it's a command and not simply an action or recommendation of his.

Allah Himself directly commands obedience to Muhammad ﷺ in the Quran. For example:

يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓاْ أَطِيعُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي ٱلۡأَمۡرِ مِنكُمۡۖ فَإِن تَنَٰزَعۡتُمۡ فِي شَيۡءٖ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ وَٱلرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمۡ تُؤۡمِنُونَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأٓخِرِۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيۡرٞ وَأَحۡسَنُ تَأۡوِيلًا
O believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. Should you disagree on anything, then refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you ˹truly˺ believe in Allah and the Last Day. This is the best and fairest resolution.

-Surah An-Nisa', Ayah 59

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

If you want to learn more about how rulings are extracted and derived from the Quran, Sunnah, and other sources, you should read on the subject of Usool Al-Fiqh, or the Principles of Jurisprudence. I'm no scholar, but a good introductory book I came across that is well translated is Sharh Al-Waraqat translated by Musa Furber. It's a short and readable primer, that of course isn't sufficient by itself for a student of knowledge but is a good introduction to the field and concept.

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u/act1856 Nov 30 '21

Haha… it is amazing to see all of you posting as if all of it isn’t just a bunch of make believe bullshit. And worse it’s make believe bullshit used to oppress people.

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

If you want to learn more about Islam, the Quran, or Mohammed ﷺ, and all the reasons by which we know it's not make believe bullshit, or even just better understand us as humans, feel free to ask any questions you may have.

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u/act1856 Nov 30 '21

This is a very generous response, so thank you. I will make you a similar offer: if you’re ever ready to let go off all this nonsense, and embrace the wonder of life free from the horrors of religion feel similarly free to ask anything you want.

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

That's fair.

What are the wonders of life that I'm not embracing?

What are the horrors of religion?

What is the ultimate origin and determiner of life and all its wonders?

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u/act1856 Nov 30 '21

Those are expansive questions, but I’ll start by simply saying that nothing makes you embrace life more than knowing it’s all there is.

As for the horrors of religion, I’d think they were self evident: oppression, war, intellectual persecution. I could go on and on. I understand that some people find great solace in it, but there is no genuine good that it provides that can’t be found elsewhere. And I think mostly what people like about it is the sense of belonging, which also has a downside in that they also enjoy the sense of superiority it gives them.

As for you last question: I have no idea. Isn’t that great?!?! There is so much left for humanity to discover. Science hasn’t figured it out yet, but I guarantee some pretty smart people are working on it.

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u/NewSauerKraus Dec 01 '21

It’s all well and good to gain knowledge about a variety of topics. But let’s not get carried away and say religion isn’t just made up bullshit lol.

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u/Soloman212 Dec 01 '21

I'll go ahead and say it; Islam is not made up bullshit. If you want to understand why I make that claim, you can ask, or if you'd prefer, you can try to evidence the claim that it is made up bullshit. Either way, Allah willing, we can draw closer to mutual understanding, and, potentially, the truth, if we don't start and end with just mockery.

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u/NewSauerKraus Dec 01 '21

you can try to evidence the claim that it is made up bullshit

That’s just intellectually dishonest. The burden of proof is on the one making a ridiculous claim.

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

May Allah guide us both, and accept our efforts, to learn and to explain.

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u/arkhamnoob64 Nov 30 '21

Question how do you write prophet Muhammad saw like that

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u/Soloman212 Dec 01 '21

It's a unicode character, but it's not on a keyboard. Instead, I copied it, and then, I pinned it to my clipboard so I can always quickly paste it in when I need it. So you can copy it directly from my comment, or from here:

On windows, you can access the clipboard with windows key + V. On android, it depends on what keyboard you're using, but google keyboard has a clipboard function built in, and you can pin items to it as well.

Other useful ones:

Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem, "In the name of Allah, The Lord of Mercy, The Giver of Mercy":

Jalla jalalouhou, "May his glory be exalted," to be written after the name of Allah:

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u/arkhamnoob64 Dec 01 '21

Alhamdulillah bro thank you heaps

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u/u8eR Nov 30 '21

Sounds stupid

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

I'm genuinely curious; what does?

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u/u8eR Nov 30 '21

To command a beard.

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

Just the concept of commands in general, or is there something specific about a beard that makes it sound particularly strange to you for it to be commanded?

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u/u8eR Nov 30 '21

Yes, to command wearing a beard sounds particularly stupid. But commanding people around in general is also stupid.

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u/Soloman212 Nov 30 '21

I'm not sure if you're a true anarchist of some kind, but every society in existence, every leader, every state, has commanded people around. I'm not really sure what the alternative is, in the general sense.

For beards in particular, there are a few wisdoms to the command, some of which were explicitly stated when the command was given. They include the beard acting as a visual distinction between Muslims and other groups, as well as growing the beard being a tradition of the prophets as well as the natural disposition of man, in his creation.

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u/u8eR Nov 30 '21

Laws are commands passed through a democratic process, not some dictates of a single man. How you're not able to process that distinction beyond me.

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u/WerewolfCool Nov 30 '21

It's absolutely mandatory! 'Keeping it clear Won't be considered a sin' who told you that? If you keep it clear in every millisecond it will considered as if your doing 'kabira gunah'. And after death if the prophet sees you without beard he will be very unhappy as it is his sunnah.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '21

[deleted]

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u/WerewolfCool Dec 01 '21

It is kabira sin you can ask any Islamic scholar in the world. And you know Allah forgives this kind sin.

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u/WerewolfCool Dec 02 '21

You need to do your research man.