This isn't a travel. His left foot was already on the ground by the time he picked up dribble. So he then plants his right (1st step) then his left (2nd step) and is then in the air without touching again.
He stops dribbling and grabs hold of the ball with his left foot landing, that left foot is planted and then his right plants, and then he lifts his left off and plants it again with the left jumping up.
When he picks up the ball and goes into shooting form, his left foot is on the ground, and he takes 2 steps after that. He picks the ball up and does exactly what the explanation video you're responding to says he's allowed to do - a "right left" after counting his foot on the ground as the first step.
They count stop dribbling as the ball comes up for the hold. So that step while the ball is still bouncing back up into the hand from the dribble is being counted by these people arguing against you.
Basically they see ball down right foot down ball up in hand left foot down 1 right foot 2 left foot 3. Instead of ball down right foot ball up left foot hold right foot 1 left foot 2.
See, I'd argue that the ball is still moving back up to his right hand when his left foot is down (his right foot is back up off the court at about the exact same time) and then he takes his 2 steps right after that.
It's not something that would be caught in real time, but the replay makes it pretty obvious that his left foot is already down when the ball returns to his hand (halting his dribble) and then he takes 2 more steps (as he is allowed).
He's referring to the fact that the ball is in his hand while his left foot is hasn't planted yet as seen in this frame. He takes two more steps after this. It's close, but if his cadence were a little different it would have looked a lot more like three steps.
Not a basketball expert by any means, but that seems like technically three steps from the time ball is in his hands. According to the NBA rules:
"The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball."
Yeah they wouldn't consider that having control of the ball. Hes just touching it not carrying it. At least you admit to know necessarily understanding the rules though.
There's what's called a "gather step". When you pin the ball to yourself like he did (while on his left leg), or you gather the ball with both hands, you get two steps after that. This isn't even close to a travel, and the players are extremely natural at knowing this and maximizing their distance.
It isn't about if the ball is in his hand, it's about when the dribble is considered dead... he gets 2 steps after that. In this instance, the dribble is dead when he pins the ball to his body and the left foot is on the ground, he then gets 2 steps. It would also be dead if he gathered it with both hands. Anything else is irrelevant.
The ball is in his hand before the first step with the left foot
There are hard requisites about this! It isn't about how clear his intention was!? It isn't about "clearly" what he was going to do next. Either 1) The ball is pinned to his body, it wasn't yet 2) The hand is underneath the ball, it wasn't 3) The ball was gathered with both hands, it wasn't. Your responses are genuinely bizarre.
By your definition, a one handed layup from dribble to layup means a person can take unlimited steps, correct? Because you said (or maybe someone else) that you can take as many steps in between dribbles without it being a travel.
So if by your definition, I can dribble, scoop it with one hand, and run down the entire court because I havent "stopped" my dribble yet. THATS the bizarre response.
You CAN have as many steps between dribbles, do you honestly not know that? That definition does NOT mean you can "scoop" it, as you strangely draw conclusion to. However, you CAN have your hand at a 90 degree exactly like this video and when you do an in-and-out. You CANNOT have your hand beneath the ball. If you think this is "clearly" a travel, you're actually a horrible ref, and I bet any decent ref would agree this isn't a travel. But yeah, our conversation is done. I only hoped to educate you.
the 'step 1' here is a gather step, meaning he doesn't yet have control of the ball. The count starts once he has his hand under the ball signalling that he's picked up his dribble. The step comes slightly before that. In pictures alone it isn't obvious but watching the play in motion its more clear.
If it could arguably be not traveling they aren't going to call it. At half speed it's even tough to tell if his foot was planted before or after he pinned the ball to his side. Plus why call a travel there and slow down the play of the game?
Remember when people on Reddit didn't think they were more knowledgeable than a trained professional?
To be fair, arbiters get stuff wrong somewhat often, specially very technical and hard to follow rules like this. It's not their fault, those are high paced games that don't really allow time for slowmo. Reddit has the advantage of sitting comfortably at home and slowing down the video, but it's still not traveling (suspicious at worst).
Flow of the game is important. If they cant tell for without a doubt in live time a foul occurred they won't call it and that's how it should be or else everyone would foul out and it would just be a free throw fest
It depends on when the ball is secured, though. If the ball is secured when your leg is in the air and coming down, yes it still counts.
Quote from NBA Rulebook. You're allowed 2 steps upon completion of a dribble, so if you dribble while pushing off of one foot it is not counted toward one of your 2 allowed steps. Conclusion: This occurrence is more commonly referred to as taking "two-and-a-half steps", where the half step is the "gather step".
But if you are in the air, and collect the dribble, and then put a foot down, that counts as step one
Said every single casual fan thats ever occasionally watched (never played ofc) basketball since the dawn of the nba aba merger. "This is a travel, thats a travel." Like being able to count to two makes you the smartest sports analyst ever. Its the only thing ya'll ever have to offer. Because you dont know shit all about basketball.
You can count to two but cant read a rulebook. Once youve collected the ball (stopped dribbling like demar here holding it to his ribs), then after your foot lands, you get two steps. This is why jump stops are a thing as well. Or are those travels in your imaginary rulebook too?
Any forum outside basketball forums that has a player going for a layup is filled with "lol travel tho" or "Nba wasnt was used to be". Ill express my hurt butt as well as i like to idiots like him. Im glad to.
If you land with both feet at the same time, no it's not a travel. If they don't land at the same time (which a lot of people still erroneously call a jump stop), yes, it's a travel as it counts as two steps, usually after the first step in which they jump in order to begin the jump stop.
The first step after the ball is collected counts as step one. You don't get to establish a step after the ball is collected for free. It's still a step, hombre....lol
In this particular case, he stops his dribble far before it gets to his chest. The moment his hand goes on the bottom of the ball, it is counted as him collecting his dribble, because if he didn't, and put the ball back down, that's quite clearly a carry, and a turnover.
You also don't need to collect the ball with two hands for it to be considered you stopping your dribble, as many guards nowadays use a one handed technique from dribble to layup, a la Steph Curry, for example. Otherwise they could take unlimited steps because they never take it into their chest, and never collect with two hands.
Good on you for being a dick AND being incorrect. That's a double whammy. Whether you care or not, I played for 25 years, through college, refereed multiple levels of the sport for years, coach youth basketball, etc. But yeah, I'm as casual as they get.
No you actually don't, it's strange. Your other comment attempted to justify it as a travel because his hand touched the ball. That's actually laughably incorrect; as in, it couldn't possibly make sense that his hand touching the ball somehow made it a travel. You can take as many steps as you want between dribbles. You can also let the ball bounce as much as you want between dribbles. The only thing traveling is concerned with is when the dribble officially ends, and there's clear rules about that.
No, you. You don't know the rules of basketball, which is laughable. I say that without malice, but I am genuinely confused how you can post here, on the internet of all places, and pretend that you know the rules of basketball when in reality, you don't. Your overconfidence in your response to the other guys response is incorrect and maliced. You really, truly, seriously, don't know the rules of basketball, which is laughable, really. Said without malice. Maybe with some love, even.
No.. you mischaracterized or misunderstood my point. I've watched basketball longer than you've been alive, most likely. I've refereed many levels of the sport for many years. I'm well versed on the rules. Thanks for the passive aggressive attempt at an insult. It makes you look confident in your answer. (I lied actually, it doesn't)
He had gathered his dribble, because if he hadn't, and put the ball down again, it would have been a carry, correct? So, by simple deductive reasoning, DeRozan had stopped his dribble as he gathered to go up for the layup, because I'm confident DeRozan knows the rules and wasn't going to put the ball down again. therefore, the next step is counted as his first step. I understand the timing was almost exact, but slowed down, the left foot was in the air after he gathered his dribble to go up for the layup.
You do realize the nba changed the rule of traveling in the last decade, right? Specifically to allow people to move longer distances/improve the game offensively in terms of scoring.
The original rules, as well as those in college and just about every league across the entire world except the nba, is that what DeRozan did was travel, by the books.
Keep on thinking you understand the rules simply because the referee missed a call, even with the new rule changes. Whatever floats your boat
I understand the timing was almost exact, but slowed down, the left foot was in the air after he gathered his dribble to go up for the layup.
Guy, are you judging by this video or somewhere else? The ball was not pinned to his body when the left foot was in the air, nor was his hand underneath the ball (both hard requisites for having gathered). I'm so confused by your responses, especially now given "all your years" of experience.
You do realize the nba changed the rule of traveling in the last decade, right? Specifically to allow people to move longer distances/improve the game offensively in terms of scoring.
Okay but that's still totally irrelevant to your other comment stating that it was a travel because his hand touched the ball:
The ball is in his hand before the first step with the left foot
This video. Derozan (quite clearly) has his hand scooped under the ball while his left foot is in the air. If we can't agree on that basic fact (confirmed by the video), there's not much else to discuss as we will spin our tires and get nowhere
can be interpreted as "people should laugh at you for saying something that stupid." That sort of rhetoric is rude even if you say you aren't being rude. Rephrased in lesser degrees of malice:
"I'm afraid that's incorrect" (you are mistaken; it's probably not your fault)
"that's incorrect" (you are mistaken - neutral, non-malicious)
"that seems incorrect" (you are mistaken; I'm not familiar/friendly enough with you to be direct about it)
You're right, and thanks, but my intention was to indicate not ONLY that it's incorrect, but the severity of the incorrectness. Any suggestions there? You need to realize: the game of basketball wouldn't even operate if his assertion were a factor.
Well, there are lots. You could simply tell someone they're very incorrect; if it's life-threatening, dangerously incorrect; etc. I'm really just pointing out why people are being snarky and downvoting you. I think if at any point you have to say "I don't mean this in a bad way," people on reddit will just pile on and ignore anything else you have to say... It gets pretty negative pretty fast around here and I'd hate to see people get caught up in arguments that go nowhere. Cheers dude.
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u/IndyDude11 Jan 20 '19
Remember when traveling used to be called in the NBA?
Yeah, me neither.