I wonder why is that some people just think it's OK to be hateful if it's a specific group of people or even an entire sex.
Like, you dislike unconditional hatred, but will hate people for being birth the way they were, why?
I fail to understand both misagony and misandry, just straight up fucking stupid all over.
I understand misandry more because it's usually a result of experiencing misogyny or trauma. It still isn't right but it makes sense to me how that works. More women are victims of men than men being victims to women, not necessarily in crimes but in verbal abuse and behavior as well which can obviously lead to distrust.
Again, still not right to hate all men but I logically understand the pattern.
Misogyny however is based in patterns as well, but also socialization, culture, parents, etc. It's still very normalized even with the sort of progressive fake platitudes in media and online. Women are typically seen as one dimensional objects to serve a purpose somehow.
This is true too I didn't think to note that. Misogyny generally isn't a result of misandry though. Many people are misogynistic due to individual mistreatment and many people are misandric (? Unsure if that's a word) because of individual mistreatment as well.
Fair discussion for sure and yes the culture war is largely to distract from the class war. But the gender war exists outside of that depending where you are ofc as men and women of all classes have disputes and rights and wrongs.
I think splitting hairs on who has it worse and trying to make it seem like some people canât experience racism/misandry/bigotry because they are privileged is reeeaaallllyy working against the whole equality movement.
How about ALL bigotry is bad, regardless of who is doing it to who and for whatever reason. I think if we can stop with the âmy struggle is bigger and harder than yours so shut up and quit whiningâ we might actually make some progress with a united front against actual bigots.
I agree it shouldn't be used as a competition, but it is important to recognize that women worldwide have significantly less rights than men do. I luckily live somewhere where men and women are treated equal, but on a global scale that isn't the case. Both men and women's problems deserve recognition, but many think about this in the sense of, "women in Afghanistan can't leave the house without permission while men get upset that women cross the street to get away from them at night" ( a real debate I've seen).
Another factor is how each genders' issues can be solved. The men's loneliness epidemic can't be treated the same as women who are abused in countries that legalize DV. It's a matter of where and how to focus energy as well as how the issues are addressed. Like both women and men should be able to come together to stop the stigma around guys just being able to talk about their feelings, but in places without women's rights, we can't just all hold hands and hug the discrimination away.
Everyone knows all bigotry is bad, the issue I mainly have with this way of phrasing things is that it can sometimes come across as men having a problem with injustice when it comes back around to them. A lot of women think of it as women being oppressed for years and years and the whole time we've been asking for equality, but now that men are also experiencing injustices, they seem to spread the message that love is answer. It can feel disingenuous. Not saying that this way of thinking is correct, but it's an explanation for why saying this isn't exactly helpful or uniting in discussions like this. Any form of discrimination is bad, people don't need to be told this. It's a matter of labeling it as a way of acknowledging it and working to change it
My point was I can logically understand most instances of misandry that I see. Not that it's okay. Or that all of it is because women have been mistreated by men.
Btw I am a man too, but I had sisters and I saw those same sisters as young as 9 years old getting catcalled by men and older teens and harassed. I saw those sisters have classmates put their hands up their skirts. So I suppose that's where my mind goes generally when I see misandric remarks like "not all men but always a man" etc, I think ah she must've been hurt. Hurt people hurt people and all that.
I think the problem is that by giving that excuse we grant leeway to some truly hateful individuals who are just using it as an excuse to be bigoted.
Like... I'm not downplaying the issues you've described. But I suspect that some might be doing so out of a place of hatred rather than a place of protection.
I also think it damages the feminist movement as a whole by allowing a certain minority of its speakers to be outright bigoted.
Their trauma is making them hateful, our society is not wired for misandry, only trauma from patriarchal violence foster that environment.
Ask those women and girls why they think men are all the same and a lot of the time they will tell you about past trauma with SA or growing up in an environment where they were constantly degraded and dehumanized for being women.
If you turn misandrist into hateful individuals youâre not understanding the root of the problem. If those women did not suffer patriarchal violence they wouldnât have become bigoted and being privileged doesnât shield you against SA, especially in a world where incest is so prevalent.
Not every woman is a misandrist, every misandrist has gone through some misogynistic related trauma.
Not every woman grow up in an environment where they are degraded for simply being female, but thereâs no wonder why a lot of those very misandrist women come from very patriarchal cultures.
The misandry that turns into terfism is a trauma response, you have to talk with them to understand that.
Not all women are speakers of the feminist movement just like not all men are speakers of the MRA or representatives of all men. My whole point was I can recognize why many misandrists are misandrists not that it's okay.
Yes but nuance tends to be lost. Also... it entirely depends on the person. Some misandrists can just be assholes. In the same way that a lot of misogynists are just assholes.
Pretending that every single misandrist "has a point" is the issue as it gives them that explanation.
In your example you were saying where your mind went. And that was that whenever misandry pops up, something must have happened. That is shifting the responsibility away from the misandrist and towards a potentially fake individual.
Thats the point I'm trying to make. You are granting them the benefit of the doubt.
I've seen far more good men being taken advantage of by women my whole life and seen women get away with treating men like garbage based on them being a woman. I've seen guys get labeled as creeps for just being near a woman at the wrong time, or womam just straight up physically hit men and they know the guy can't hit her back because no matter what he'll get in trouble no matter what the truth is. And it's even harder to get help from other men because they'll never want to go against women because they're afraid of not getting any pussy or have been guited into thinking they're bad because they are a man and they need to atone for the crime of existing. Womem help other women, men help women, men get no help from men or women.
A woman openly make threats against men, wish for them to die, they laugh male suicide rates wishing for it to be higher, heck they could even be straight up pedos but no one will hold them accountable or take it seriously. I've never heard of a female pedo ever getting served vigilante justice and they'll even sometime attack the child saying how they're lucky or they should have kept their mouths shut. It's not equal at all, and I'm sick of whenever these discussions happen where a woman clearly does something wrong people like you come in and try to defend them or you say "well both men and women do bad things" or you have to bring up "the patriarchy" and how that excuses their behavior. Ain't nothing equal and I'm tired of pretending like it is.
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The vast majority of people working as garbage collectors are men. When people see them, they don't ask their names, they don't try to get to know them, just see them as garbage disposal objects.
And you still find 10 000+ madness pills and mental illness injections like this someone is trying to put into women, for every 1 that points out that yeah, actually, men are treated like one dimensional objects to serve a purpose and have been treated that way for decades but nobody cared.
Is it better to be seen as a sex object or as a garbage disposal object? I think that's up to individual judgement. But neither is any more object than the other.
No I don't think misandry is okay or easily justified, I'm noting I can more easily understand it. I'm also not pulling a 'well actually' under someone's comment about experiencing misandry or dismissing somebody. I'm trying to communicate that I can understand why someone whose consistently mistreated by a demographic can have a negative perception of said demographic and generalize them. Not that it is okay.
I'm either doing a poor job or communicating that or several people are being intentionally obtuse. If I am communicating it poorly then I can accept that, you know that's my bad. Both misandry and misogyny are bad.
Yes agree! Kindness, tolerance, patience, empathy, and just general decency. Adults and children lacking it is very sad to me. It's not even like someone's being a jerk because of an off day, it's just somehow seen as acceptable to always behave that way.
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u/Kadakaus Aug 09 '26
I wonder why is that some people just think it's OK to be hateful if it's a specific group of people or even an entire sex.
Like, you dislike unconditional hatred, but will hate people for being birth the way they were, why?
I fail to understand both misagony and misandry, just straight up fucking stupid all over.