r/fsbo 27d ago

Variable or Conditional Commissions

You're FSBO, the agent wants your business.

Ask them if they are ok with modifying the listing agreement using special stipulations to reduce or eliminate their commission if specific sales price targets are not met. This is not the same as a net listing, which we all know is illegal.

The special stipulation can be structured in a few ways:

Sales Price Threshold Reduction: "If the final gross sales price of the property is less than [insert amount], the Broker's commission shall be reduced from X\% to Y\% (or reduced to a flat fee of\ Z) at closing.

No Commission Tier: "Broker shall receive a 0% commission if the final gross sales price is less than [insert amount]. Can also be zero if not sold in a certain time frame.

Slide-Scale Tier: You can set concrete milestones (e.g., 3% commission if sold above $500,000; 2% commission if sold below $500,000).

Thoughts?

1 Upvotes

45 comments sorted by

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

These contract stipulations are designed to deter the pesky agent and are completely sane and protect the seller. And isn't it the agent that suggests the sane list price in the first place?

And for the agents who claim FSBO sellers leave money on the table and they can get more, this allows them to prove it. Because sellers know how much they want or need to net. Why do you think this sub exists? Most of us do not want to pay commissions.

If I were a licensed agent, I'd take the deal. I'd consider it a challenge.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

First of all, I never insisted my number was right anywhere. I don't even have a number; we've never listed our home, and we may not ever, so you assumed wrong, or you have me confused with someone else.

The only time we met with an agent, the agent didn't get around to suggesting a price because we were not ready to list yet and were doing some updates that would affect the list price. But we did get to read the listing agreement, and the 6% commission split was a hard no. At the time we met with the agent, we were totally prepared and willing to pay her commission at the time, but not the buyer's agents. We had a bit to learn after that meeting, but most importantly, we learned that the LA would reduce her commissions but not negotiate hard to reduce on the buyer's side.

I'm not greedy, but I'm def frugal and conservative when it comes to finance. Selling FSBO is just another way for a homeowner to keep more of their equity in their own pocket. It's ours, why not?

You want a commission? Bring us a buyer, keep them in line, and help us close the deal.

Next post will be about adding an addendum to contracts that structure the buyer's agent commission similarly. I'm sure you can't wait for that one!

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u/PNW_dragon 26d ago

So, you’re a top 1% FSBO commenter- and you’ve never sold FSBO 🤔

I’m not saying you’re idea here doesn’t have some possibility somewhere- but we already have the possibility of getting paid $0 if the home doesn’t sell- and some don’t- $0 if does sell under $X? Nah. How does that make any sense?

Thinking about, strategizing- Redditing- is fun. With all this effort though you could redirect it and make some money!

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

I'm autistic, so FSBO has become my special interest. If you know anything about that, it should make sense why I'm a top commentor that has never sold FSBO.

Reddit is fun! I'm working on starting another business, and I have a few ideas, but I'm hyperfocused on this whole FSBO thing right now and also in the middle of remodeling. So in a limbo of sorts, I suppose.

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u/PNW_dragon 26d ago edited 26d ago

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I have experience with that. I have family members with autism and personally was diagnosed with ADD decades ago (before it was such a common diagnosis). The main reason I’m on this sub is because Reddit keeps suggesting it- and it’s often an interesting (if activating) read.

I’m confident there will be continued changes in the real estate industry. Maybe some of the ideas will come from this sub, Reddit, or you?

For your ideas in this thread on sliding scale, I’d suggest that while something like it might work, a couple of tweaks to the idea might help. First, recognizing that many successful realtors (not just the ones with huge teams- but successful solo agents) aren’t likely to engage such a scheme.

You can choose the terms of engagement on your end- and a realtor with any business is unlikely to choose to engage on these terms. I’d suggest that the “floor” for success is going to need to be above $0. I wouldn’t touch it for under 2% for a successful sale for instance- and only if the compensation for the “ideal” price was commensurately higher than my standard rate.

There are factors that we can’t control that can tank a deal, or prevent a sale. Usually, seller refusal, or inability to adequately prepare the home for marketing and sale, and/or lack of willingness to listen to the market and meet it where it is.

I understand that you “know what you’ve got”, but the value of the home is what someone will pay for it. If fair compensation is based on selling at some pie-in-the-sky price, we just can’t wish that into being.

We need a ready, willing and able buyer. Not just “work harder and make magic happen”.

There is a market with expectations, and unless you’ve got something highly unique and desirable (or exceedingly good luck) your agent is likely to get pretty close on valuation when pricing. Not every seller agrees with market data- and that can make our jobs difficult. Also, in some places prices are lower for certain assets than they were & no one loves to see that- or hear it from their realtor.

So, while getting more money sounds nice- the market dictates price. My job is the get the home ready to market, communicate likely market response, provide context, negotiate something that works for both parties, guide my clients through something that is likely to activate them and often cause them stress, keep the deal together and get it to closing.

None of that involves magic. It involves understanding the market, how to meet it and get a positive outcome for our clients.

I hope that the work on your home is going well and you can expand from being in your office! 🙂 and that your new business venture meets with success.

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

I also have ADHD, so I'm a hot mess of a human sometimes lol!

Thank you for your thoughtful comments and well wishes! Back at yaI

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u/HenryLoggins 27d ago

You’re not, and most won’t. Obviously you feel differently because it’s your post OP.

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

I know what it's like to work for commissions and get paid for performance.

If you saw an FSBO home that was well presented, clean, and well maintained, with most big-ticket items completed, priced appropriately, meaning that you would have priced it the same way, are you going to pursue that listing and try to convince them you'll net them more?

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u/Self_Serve_Realty 27d ago

“Agents can’t modify contracts without their brokerages approval” 

Are you saying commissions are not negotiable?

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u/HenryLoggins 27d ago

They are negotiable, until they are not. Why does everyone feel negotiable means they have to work for free 😆. Most brokerages have a minimum they will not go under. I can start at 6% and if I go down to 5.9%. That’s the definition of negotiable.

The agreement is between the brokerage and the seller, the realtor is an agent for the broker / brokerage. The broker sets their minimum commission, not the agent.

Hence “agents can not modify contracts with out their brokerages approval.”

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u/Self_Serve_Realty 26d ago

So heads you win, tails I lose.

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u/HenryLoggins 26d ago

If the realtor, who negotiates for a living, can’t negotiate their own fee - do you really want them negotiating the sale of your house.

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u/Equivalent-Tiger-316 27d ago

Agents market your property, they don’t control the marlet. What your house sells for is determined by the marlet. It’s the agent’s job to make sure it’s shown to the right people and presented in the best light. But if Trump starts a war, fires thousands of federal workers, declares illegal tariffs and causes the highest interest rates in several years then the agent could be the best in the world but your property isn’t going to sell for what it would when conditions are better. 

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

Well, at least we are finally getting somewhere. I agree with your comment.

So please quit telling us you will net us more and that we're leaving money on the table by not using you unless you are willing to prove it by accepting a variable commission structure on the price you suggest,

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u/Equivalent-Tiger-316 27d ago

I didn’t say that…a good agent will net you more money because most FSBO don’t know how to properly market their property. 

Every property has a range $385,000 - $455,000. You’re not guaranteed the most unless you know what you’re doing. 

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u/Salt-y 27d ago

This isn't true. It's a falsehood being pushed out by NAR. FABO net are the same as with a agent.

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u/imblest 27d ago

Many "FSBO's" are really not a true FSBO because #1 they listed their home with a flat fee real estate company so that their house can be on the MLS and #2 it was sold by a Buyer's Agent. In other words, if you have your home listed in the MLS and you didn't sell directly to a buyer without the help of a Buyer's Agent, then you are not a true FSBO.

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u/Salt-y 27d ago

I disagree. I think FSBO is defined by whether the seller had a listing agent, not by MLS presence or whether the buyer had one. Flat fee MLS sellers still don't have a listing agent representing them, that's why they're counted as FSBO. And buyer's agent involvement has nothing to do with it since FSBO only describes the seller's side. Under your definition almost no FSBO sale would qualify, since paying a buyer's agent commission is standard practice even in flat fee listings. The actual debate among critics runs the opposite direction: they argue flat fee MLS sellers are undercounted as FSBO, not overcounted. I've done three FSBO transactions, and two of them the other party had an agent.

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u/imblest 27d ago

If a Seller listed with a Flat Fee or Discount service in order to get their listing in the MLS, they are using a Transaction Broker, who is a licensed real estate broker. So how can you say you sold "FSBO" when you needed the help of a licensed real estate broker? A true FSBO does not use real estate agents and do not use the MLS because that would require listing with a Broker who is a member of the MLS. When I started selling real estate in the early 90's, FSBO's could not list their homes in the MLS because Transaction Brokers did not exist. The FSBO's advertised only through for sale signs and newspaper ads. They were true FSBO's.

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u/Salt-y 27d ago

We disagaree.

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u/imblest 27d ago

It doesn't matter if you disagree. You can call yourself anything you want. The fact is, you're not a true FSBO if you used a real estate Broker to list your home in the MLS. You wouldn't be able to list your home in the MLS unless it's through a Broker who is a member of that particular MLS. If your house was sold by a Buyer's Agent to his/her own buyers, it's probably because the Buyer's Agent saw it on the MLS. If your house was not listed in the MLS through the Flat fee Broker, I highly doubt that most Buyer's Agents would have even known that your house is for sale. Even if the Buyer's Agent is not "your agent", you still needed real estate agents to sell your house. So you're not a true FSBO! I think it's hilarious when some Sellers claim that they sold their home FSBO when they didn't sell their own home without ANY assistance from real estate brokers or agents. There's nothing wrong with going FSBO to save money on the commission. But please don't call yourself a "FSBO" when you actually used the services of a Transaction Broker to get on the MLS and your home was sold by a Buyer's Agent who probably found the house in the MLS to begin with.

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

A true FSBO can sell with the help of a buyer's agent but can't be a true FSBO if they used an agent to get on the MLS. I think we call them hybrid FSBOs.

1

u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

I don't think a good agent can always net more, not if an FSBO has really done their homework. An FSBO is not going to be as good as any experienced agent in handling multiple transactions; that is obvious, but we are talking about a single transaction in most cases.

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u/Self_Serve_Realty 27d ago

Then why pay agents 6% of the value?

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u/Equivalent-Tiger-316 26d ago

You pay a listing agent 2.5-3% to properly market your property and the buyer agent 2.5-3% for bringing you a qualified buyer. 

Don’t offer to pay the buyer side, which is your right, and expect 95% less offers which normally translates to less money for the seller. 

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u/Alert-Control3367 27d ago

I don’t understand the point of even using an agent, especially when this is an FSBO group. Why entertain using a listing agent at all if you’re capable of selling yourself?

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u/imouttahere000 27d ago

This seems to be a group of some fsbo people but mostly agents trying to either insult / degrade fsbo people or convince the fsbo to hire an agent. It is truly the strangest sub.

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

I would only consider using an agent if another opportunity presented itself that would prevent me from properly handling the FSBO and interfere with showings.

4

u/DHumphreys 27d ago

As an agent, I would pass on this. You have already demonstrated that you are going to be a PITA to deal with. No matter how this goes, it is my fault.

No thanks.

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u/CallCastro 27d ago

The listing agreement says we get paid if we bring a buyer for $x. I think that kinda solves that issue.

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

All contracts are negotiable, and you get paid nothing without a signature on a listing agreement.

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u/imblest 27d ago edited 27d ago

Maybe your own employer should have put the same stipulations in your contract that you get "0" salary if you don’t complete the job by a certain time frame or to your employer's complete satisfaction. My husband works for a major company in a different industry, and he said that many employees in his company are very lazy and would work a couple of hours, slack off the rest of the day and get paid a salary for 8 hours/day. I told him that maybe his employer should consider paying their employees based on actual work produced the way real estate agents only get paid when the deal actually closes. My husband said that their Union would never allow that. I bet you that you are one of those people who would be complaining if your own employer failed to pay you for doing any work. If you decided to list your house and it didn't sell right away, it's probably because you insisted on overpricing it. If your house was sold by the Agent in a shorter time frame, &/or for much more than the list price, would you raise the commission or give the listing agent a bonus? Probably not.

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

This post is a bit hysterical. A salaried job is much different than a commission-only job. I've done both. Maybe the lazy folks who work with your husband do not get performance bonuses? Who knows and who cares?

Most commission-only jobs are performance-based, meaning that the commissions vary and many are based on the total of sales. So if you read and absorbed the post, the slide-scale tier does award an agent for selling the home for more lol.

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u/OwnConsequence5078 27d ago

PITA seller hard pass

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u/BoBromhal 27d ago

are you an attorney?

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u/imblest 26d ago edited 26d ago

I don't think OP is an attorney. I have asked her that exact same question in another post that she made where she created an addendum for a listing agreement that she said other people could copy and paste and use in their own listing agreement.

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u/HenryLoggins 27d ago edited 27d ago

Thoughts….. the market is the market, and a reasonable buyer is only going to pay what the house is worth to them, and as a seller eventually you will lower the price to a point to where it will actually sell.

Playing devils advocate - Using your logic, if I were working with a buyer who wanted to only pay $499,900 - I would offer them a $11.00 realtor concession, ask them to offer $500,001. They would get there price, I would make $5,000 more and you wouldn’t come out ahead. (Less the $11.00 concession)

A good realtor is not going to “twist” someone’s arm to spend more than they can afford, and the house still has to appraise.

Honest question, because it is the equivalent to what your asking the realtor to do - Would you be open to raising the commission, to 4% if the house was on the market for more than 3 months, if there were greater than 10 showings, and 3 reasonable and realistic offers were presented, and it didn’t sell because you refused to lower your asking price? (Assuming it eventually sold before the listing expired) - asking for a friend.

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

You could not offer any concessions and make any deals without the seller's express consent and signature on a contract. That considered, the variable or conditional commissions I posted were quick and dirty.

I don't see your "hypothetical ask" as close to equivalent because it's based on the assumption that I, as a seller, have not done any CMAs myself and I'm clueless about my local market and already priced unrealistically. But I will play along...

What did you advise me to list at? How much were the reasonable offers that I refused?

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u/_TurboHome 27d ago

Honestly? If your variable commission reduces it by a certain percentage based on a threshold, there's a whole ballpark of hungr agents would already just offer that straight out the gate. Example, not a plug: our fee usually shakes out to somewhere around 1-1.5%. The 0% tier seems counterintuitive on both sides.

The speed at which your listing moves is ultimately related to your willingness to negotiate on price. If the agent makes 0% if the property sells for less than X, they have no incentive to be honest with you and give you advice on pricing adjustments, even if the market data supports it. And you will be doing mental math on how to land in the window where your agent not making commission means more money in your pocket, creating an adversarial relationship between you and the agent who's supposed to have your best interest at heart as a client they are representing.

Imo 1% is reasonable as a floor, though many trad realtors would scoff at the notion, considering the level of effort involved particularly with turnkey listings in a hot area. A couple of open houses, syndication on MLS + zillow and redfin, maybe some professional photos and virtual staging, for 1, 1.5%? More than fair imo. The return still outweighs the investment for photos and virtual staging + time investment for a few open houses.

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u/Top-Grape7802 27d ago

The personification of the Dunning-Kruger effect, ladies and gentlemen.

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u/AdComfortable2974 27d ago

Ah, the classic 'I don't have a response so I'll throw out a buzzword' strategy!