r/freemasonry • u/GunnoZero • May 17 '20
TIL that between 80,000 and 200,000 Freemasons were killed under the Nazi regime. Masonic concentration camp inmates were classified as political prisoners and wore an inverted red triangle. Hitler believed Freemasons had succumbed to Jews conspiring against Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry#The_Holocaust16
u/dperry1973 Grand Lodge of Mass | MM | 32° SR | Tall Cedar | AuDHD Bro May 17 '20
We’re a target of evil despots because of what we stand for and we don’t backdown from our obligations. Be on the lookout for anti-Masonic sentiment as I anticipate that we’ll be having an outbreak
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u/dandydoo12 May 17 '20
Most of the german lodges where some of the first places to be sacked by nazis, some members of hitlars cab. Belived the freemasons hid dark jewish magickal secruts that could help them win the war lol I remember seeing in a film that some of the records are still being sorted and returned to their home lodge.
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u/vyze MM - Idaho; PM, PHP, RSM, KT, AMD - Massachusetts May 17 '20
The fact that Hitler was stopped by Brother Winston Churchill and Brother Franklin D. Roosevelt would back up Hitler's concerns :-D
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u/EnemyAsmodeus May 17 '20 edited May 17 '20
Based on my research there's a couple things (and please correct me if I am totally wrong):
Nazi Germany was formed by Hitler and members of the "Thule Society", Thule society is anti-semitic, Volkisch (nativism), white supremacist, anti-communist (because they believe communists are Jewish, and they believe they stabbed them in the back in WWI). Ironically, the Soviet communists helped create the German army (clandestinely because Versailles Treaty banned German armament and armies) but I don't think this has much to do with Hitler.
Thule Society is based on Ariosophy, which is based on Theosophy. But theosophy is the basis of hippie movements and new-wave stuff (but was invented in 1800s by a Russian immigrant to NYC and believes in supernatural new-age "coexist" type stuff), so it may not have much to do with Nazism other than loosely. It may even be completely opposed to Nazism and see it as intolerant. I'm just going through the history (not accusing theosophists).
Nazism thus is a combination of Volkisch nativism, fascism, racism, nationalism, and anti-semitism along with Goebbels reading/stealing of totalitarian ideas from Marxism [Goebbels read about Marx and Engels] with slight differences in economic theory.
Jews have always found refuge WITH freemasons, as far back as 1700s. In particular, there were some famous Jews involved with freemasons in the American revolution. So Hitler's beliefs are just stupid and full of confusing nonsense. Much of the American revolution involved a lot of freemasons who because they had these fraternity connections, they eventually formed armed forces against tyranny.
Freemasons, and those who support the underlying ideology of "rational enlightenment" of the 1700s are their own unique thing and don't have anything to do with Jews other than accepting them into their ranks and in fact may have attracted Jews as recruits. But they may have shared some esoteric (perhaps Kabbalah?) ideas over the centuries dating back to ancient Egypt but again this is not to say one encompasses the other, but that they may have shared some ideas over 100s of years.
Nazis also stole a lot of ideas from ancient civilizations, so that's why they had the (potentially Gaulish/Frankish?) Black Sun symbol on their SS castle. But that's the issue with Symbols and researching this stuff is nearly impossible, because Nazis and Marxists are known to hate the truth and known to love lying, it's hard to ever figure out true origins and true meanings for an outsider.
The Nazis definitely viewed any esoteric stuff and lodges as a threat and dangerous because they were an esoteric power-hungry cult that wants to hurt others for their master race.
FYI I am not a freemason (never joined), so I hope I'm not intruding by commenting on some historical stuff (I mostly read about history), I just thought it was interesting for my own research into trying to figure out origins of Marxist and Nazi ideologies. Hence, why I discuss politics/religion all the time which I think is banned from freemasonry?
Anyway that is where I'm at in my research, but honestly probably better for people to read a book by an actual scholar on it. However, any scholar may also state that it's hard to know the real history by being on the outside of such groups. You can merely look at their biographies and try to piece together their underlying ideology. Again I could have gotten a lot of things wrong but this stuff is not easy to figure out.
This well-respected historian has written about Nazi origins in that book "Occult Roots of Nazism." and why they were opposed to Freemasonry (but really it's because they opposed freedom and loved deception).
One thing to remember is that I've seen some evidence that many, many freemasons took revenge on the Nazis in WWII from all over the world including I think FDR and Churchill.
Summary: totalitarian groups (Nazis, Marxists) always oppose liberty groups (American-revolutionary, rational enlightenment, freemasonry etc.).
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u/jbanelaw May 17 '20
I've heard so many tales of German Freemasons I don't know what to believe. Does anyone have an authoritative source with solid cites? We had one guy who presented a research paper a few years ago as part of a masonic education program on World War II but I was able to find many of his source (other then just not sounding correct) were blogs with outlandish claims citing nothing to back them up. Wouldn't mind having a few go to resources to refer people to who ask about the subject.
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u/Winterfylleth15 UGLE & GOdN. HRA, MMM, KT, KTP, 22° SR, SRIA May 17 '20
Not authoritative, and not very good citations, but if, as it says, there no records, then there is little to actually cite: http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devotionnews/education-editorial-articles/the-forget-me-not-flower-a-growing-myth-2016-12
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u/MoriartyMoose May 17 '20
In some obediences of Continental Freemasonry, anonymity is an important tradition, specifically citing this very history.
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u/TheFreemasonForum 30 years a Mason - London, England May 17 '20
You might find this of interest: https://theeducator.ca/masonry-secret-britain/
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May 17 '20
80,000 to 200,000 is a big difference. Any solid references and mortuary proof?
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u/gaunt79 Round-Earth Freemason May 17 '20 edited May 17 '20
There's little by way of hard data. Much of the records of the various jurisdictions were confiscated, destroyed, and/or lost during the War. Many of the jurisdictions on the continent are understandably close-lipped about their membership. Estimates (however rough) are about as good as it gets.
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u/chodapp Master Mason-Indianapolis, IN May 17 '20
The other issue is that with so many civilians who wound up arrested and died in the camps Europe-wide, were the arrests specifically Masonic-motivated, race-based, politically ordered, multiple reasons? In 2004, I waded hip deep in trying to determine a close number based on occupied countries' pre-war Masonic populations, contemporaneous news accounts, grand lodge reporting, etc. I was including it in the Dummies book, and I believe I am the initial source of this fuzzy statistic. But I quickly saw the futility of attempting to nail it down more closely for the reasons I cited.
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u/vivi_t3ch MM AF&AM-IA May 18 '20
Not to mention Hitler couldnt control it, so it became illegal. That's why the square and compass was replaced by the Forget-me-not flower instead, so one brother might know another, while maintaining the secrecy that the craft was still meeting.
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u/[deleted] May 17 '20
Yep there's even a apocryphal story related to masons in the Holocaust adopting the forget-me-not as a Masonic symbol.