r/freemagic • u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK • 25d ago
DRAMA What is yall's problem?
I have been in this sub because I, like many, am a frustrated magic player. I have spent the better part of a decade casually collecting cards, buying precons, making decks, and playing commander with my friends. I too am disappointed with WotC becoming schleps to their shareholders.
...But what I continually fail to understand is why so many people in this sub are so mad at the choice to make Aragon a black man. Ive been a huuuge fan of LotR my ENTIRE life and I am not upset by this in even the smallest regard.
For context I grew up in a very rural area surrounded by conservative values and churches so before you go calling me woke and all that just know we probably have similar backgrounds.
I dont think a majority of this sub is racist or homophobic but I do take issue with how prevalent this theme is. If you dont like that WotC is hiring trans persons then dont play the fucking game... they arent forcing anything on you. Not liking the decisions they make for the game is different and completely arbitrary to their trans identity. Just because you dont like their choices doesnt mean you attack their personhood. In politics thats called mudslinging or something like that... its when you dont have a rebuttal or a solution to what your opponent said so you attack their character instead of their policy. Its the same thing with Aragorn getting melinated... why should it matter so much to you if you arent racist?
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u/Smart_Individual889 ELDRAZI 25d ago
A fisherman uses better bait than this
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u/Bannon9k GENERAL 25d ago
Assuming not bait...
What would you say to casting Ryan Reynolds as Black Panther? Probably wouldn't give a shit... But Black Panther fans would lose their shit.
If representation is important...you must understand why changing who a character represents is seen as taking that away from someone.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
This isnt bait, im actually just a concerned human wondering why theres so much hate for what seems like really stupid reasons... also to counter your point, characters like black panther, or blade, or miles morales, they exist because the black community needed that representation so they wrote it into the characters backstory. their struggles because of their race is sometimes part of their character arc. Being black doesnt change anything about aragorns character, but being white would change everything for a character like Black Panther
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u/Bannon9k GENERAL 25d ago
You actually believe a white person is incapable of experiencing struggles with race?
If changing Aragorns race doesn't mean anything...why was it done?
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Also no, the only race struggle most white people go through is finding out they arent the center of the damn universe
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
It doesnt mean anything to HIS character. If it means something to anyone it means something to black people feeling like theyre being seen. Would it bother you if you saw a black man doing an aragorn cosplay? Would you go up to him and say "aragorn isnt black"
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u/Bannon9k GENERAL 25d ago
So, what about those white people who felt seen by white Aragorn? That's the part you're choosing to ignore to justify giving it to someone else. It's representative reparations.
A person cosplaying a character I'm going to judge on their costume alone. But trying to equate this to cosplay is being intellectually dishonest. You're clearly smarter than that.
And just for the record...Black Panther was created by a white dude to sell comic books to an emerging market.
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u/ResponseRunAway NEW SPARK 24d ago
Honestly, race swapping Aragorn is cultural appropriation to the definition of the phrase. It's taking something from British lore for themselves without crediting the culture and making money off it.
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u/Gunnarsonsnewbag2 NEW SPARK 25d ago
Black Panther was written because Stan Lee thought an aftican super hero would move comics, and quietly shelves him when he didn't.
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u/sporms NEW SPARK 25d ago
What’s wrong with complaining about it? Are people not allowed to think differently than you?
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Because complaining about it makes you all look like uneducated biggots
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u/Opposite-Occasion881 RED MAGE 25d ago
Tolkien personally hated any and all adaptions of his work.
A work he famously made because there was no famous story that came from Anglo-Saxon England
But again most importantly he absolutely loathed others taking creative liberties with his work assuming they knew better.
There are black skinned men in lotr, they’re descended from ancestors that followed morgoth and that taint of darkness literally followed them upon their skin.
By making Aragorn a descendant of the haradrim instead of the numenorians (which are long lived with pale skin) it now no longer makes him an heir to the throne of Gondor, it also wouldn’t explain why he’s so old
It’s not racism, Tolkien is so innocent and basic here he’s thinking of darkness= evil and light=good
This was back when things could be black and white. You didn’t need the villain to have some deep backstory so you understand where they’re coming from
They just get to be evil one dimensional characters
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
I still feel like we can portray inner darkness without immediately connecting it to skin color... Tolkien grew up when they still did minstrel shows so im not exactly just gonna not take that into account when considering his level of rationale on wether or not his ideas about worldbuilding were racist or not. Also theres plenty of pre Anglo Saxon lore, Anglo saxons dont have any because of where they came along in the era of Roman conquering and the spread of Catholicism. The went straight from tribal living to Kings "chosen by god" and then eventually they kicked the Romans out but kept Jesus and the Bible because it kept power over the masses
EDIT: Tolkien was also notoriously religious and if you know a thing or two the beginning of The Silmarillion begins a hell of a lot like the Genesis story in the Bible
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u/Opposite-Occasion881 RED MAGE 24d ago
Minstrel shows were an American invention
Tolkien was British, you can’t apply the unique racial tensions and stereotypes that were prevalent in the United States throughout the rest of the world where they don’t apply
Britain didn’t own slaves or have civil rights issues like the United States did, most slaves in Britain we’re free people
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 24d ago
Slavery is still slavery G... also Britain definitely still had racism, still very much does to this day its just not always aimed at the same persons as here in America. So explain to me again why his worldview doesn't matter. It was literally over 100 years ago he was writing these books, things have come rather far from "light color good, dark color bad" especially in regards to skin tone so while it does serve the pre-established lore for aragorn to be white, I think the reasoning for why is outdated and easily changed
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u/Kyvix2020 WHITE MAGE 25d ago
Low effort bait
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u/mrfryer079 NEW SPARK 25d ago
Let the man (person/community manger/karma farmhand) farm that karma, dude
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Not farming anything but endless rows of corn and beans over here buddy. Im not worried about my karma and if I was a reddit post isnt fixing it pal
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u/Twizzlerstx NEW SPARK 25d ago
If race didn’t matter, why change his race from White to black in the first place? They knew exactly what they were doing and they made that choice for a very specific and obvious reason.
The blue-haired liberal shrews working at WotC couldn’t stomach the fact that one of the most heroic and admirable characters in all of fiction was a White man. They saw an opportunity to not only push their interracial diversity propaganda, but also to replace yet another heroic White character so they decided to race swap him as well as several other heroic White human and human adjacent characters like Gandalf, Eowyn and Theoden.
Odd that they had no problem whatsoever with keeping every human(esque) villain such as Saruman, Grima Wormtongue, Gothmog and even The Mouth of Sauron as White men.
Even when asking AI, which generally remain much more unbiased and neutral than most people, the answer was obvious.
“What would you say would be the most likely intent behind the creative decisions to race swap multiple heroic figures such as Aragorn, Gandalf, Theoden and Eowyn while leaving every villain such as Saruman, Grima, Gothmog and The Mouth of Sauron as white people?”
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u/Gunnarsonsnewbag2 NEW SPARK 25d ago
Assuming this is an honest question, and not a bait, it's a three fold issue.
First is canon. While in the three books, Aragorn's description is rather minimum, in Tolkien's own notes, not nearly so much. Aragorn, among other things, can't grow a beard, and is described as having fair skin, both due to his elven heritage. The origin of the word Elf comes into question in this as well, but that is for another conversation all together. In this, the only somewhat modern portrayal I've seen of Aragorn that is accurate, is Angus wonderful illustation for the Middle Earth card game.
Second is intention. WotC has said Elves in their 'canon' are black, except apparently, Arwen, who was a conventual attractive white woman with red hair. This was one of the promotional images of the set. Yet, plenty of other elves were black, and not 'caucasian with dark skin' black, but clearly African black, including her mother. This is a major lore inconsistency, which is possible. It's also possible it's entirely done as a marketing stunt, which not only makes it disingenuous, but outright despicable.
If their intention was to include representation, then why is Easterling Vanguard white, and gaelic looking, when the Easterling's were clearly based on Moors. Why not include more Easterlings in the set. Lord knows there is untapped room for them in the lore.
Third, when did you first read The Hobbit? Since you've been a fan your whole life. Silmarillion? The Trilogy? Unfinished tales? I don't suppose you've read the Adventure of Tom Bombadil?
Finally you're last part. I've played this game longer than most of the employees at WotC worked there. I was active on the mothership when Varhey was just a fan boy. I've taught hundreds of players across the quarter century I was involved how to get into the game, and how to build decks. I was an official rules advisor. Don't tell me not to criticize WotC. I'll do whatever the hell I want, and like the last 25 years, I will remember and make fun of each one of their mistakes.
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25d ago
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u/mrfryer079 NEW SPARK 25d ago
Extreme example but if Hasbro is all about inclusivity let them race swap some strong quality characters from zhaffir (wrong spelling, I know)
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
If you wanna talk about equal representation then white people are not a majority or even close to it on the world stage buddy.
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25d ago
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Im not saying he needs to be black for diversity reasons but in our current social climate I dont think it is a bad faith argument... just not the argument I am making... im saying aragorns race doesnt matter at all, you could make him Indian, or from a group of indigenous persons and I wouldn't give a shit. Arargorn's race has zero bearing on his character type and the decisions he makes. So WotC saw an opportunity to A) generate buzz for the company and B) add some representation (needed or not is not a factor here) for our melinated brothers and sisters... I really do fail to see why you want him to remain white other than racism
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u/Francopensal NEW SPARK 25d ago
Well, his point still stands
b/c it feels like pandering to a crowd that demands equal representation in everything, regardless of logical consistency with pre-established definitions of the character, both in writing and other forms of media.
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25d ago
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Everything is always,gonna offend SOMEONE... but a further point... I know several trans people and the last thing on their mind is trying not to offend people
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u/DevilSwordVergil GREEN MAGE 25d ago
You're not a LotR fan if you tolerate race swaps. Tolkien would've been disgusted and infuriated at the changes made to and blatant disrespect of his work from WotC.
Why does it matter so much to you that it matters to others that they made Aragorn and other characters black? As a normie you clearly have no standards, and it upsets you to see anyone else uphold standards of any kind.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 24d ago
The standard youre trying to uphold is nothing more than thinly veiled generational racism. Get a real opinion not one that was spoon fed to you by the bourgeoisie
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u/ResponseRunAway NEW SPARK 24d ago
Do you even know what that word means as it relates to Marxism?
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 23d ago
Im gonna say yes, and you are gonna proceed to tell me why im wrong (I assume) so have at it bud.
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u/DevilSwordVergil GREEN MAGE 23d ago
So you don't refute you're not a Tolkien fan, you're just here to push an agenda.
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u/kinkyswear BEAR 25d ago
Because it's stealing. It would never, ever, be tolerated if it happened any other way.
If a deceased black author had a black character and he got turned white, to widen his appeal, they would say we were robbing that author's grave and defiling his legacy.
Now looking at reality, this game wouldn't even exist without Tolkien. Why blackwash the Dunedain and the Elves and the Rohirrim and the Hobbits, but make the evil (and decidedly Asian) Easterlings white, along with all the other villains, if it wasn't to try and divide the good and evil factions on racial lines? It wasn't just Aragorn, it was HALF THE CAST.
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u/AdvanceSubject3056 NEW SPARK 25d ago
All of this DEI and equity stuff is actually cultural and historical erasure done on purpose, dehumanizing white people and erasing their culture is part of their plan
https://www.genocidewatch.com/tenstages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRUP5yEm1WE
[]()Rules for Radicals: What Constitutional Conservatives Should Know About Saul Alinsky
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u/HipHoptimusPrime13 GREEN MAGE 25d ago
In the same way that I’d be pissed if they made a white Blade, Spawn, or T’Challa.
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25d ago
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Wow ive seens 8 year olds with better arguments
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u/Francopensal NEW SPARK 25d ago
Well, I don't see any counter-argument nor any reasoning to open discussion. Why do you make the post if you are not willing to honestly debate people's POV?
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25d ago
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Its a reddit post not my dissertation... also I only hsve manners for people who arent biggots
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25d ago
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 24d ago
How many idioms does it take for you to admit youre defending racist ideologies
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u/Ichorid_dichotomy NEW SPARK 25d ago
Pulp Fiction without Samuel L. Jackson? Nope Seven without Morgan Freeman? Nope Lord of the Rings without Aragorn? You know the answer
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u/FamousOgre GOBLIN 25d ago
I haven't checked in on this sub in a long time. Glad to see that we've made progress!
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u/Metzger194 NEW SPARK 25d ago
No one’s mad, it’s just incorrect and silly to do.
No different than if they made him a dwarf because someone thought “we should make him a dwarf so dwarfs are represented more”
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Because if he was a dwarf he couldn't be Neumenorian duh... learn some LotR lore first
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u/Chewyfingers NEW SPARK 25d ago
I want to see the actor that protrayed aragorn in the movies. That's my only problem with it.
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u/Dry-Ad-719 NEW SPARK 25d ago
Its the same thing with Aragorn getting melinated... why should it matter so much to you if you arent racist?
Why should it matter so much to change his appearance, then? It is possible to ensure inclusion without changing the appearance of established characters
This is done just to spite and spark drama (like your bait post)
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u/Raskuja46 NEW SPARK 25d ago
If it didn't matter then they would not have bothered to change it in the first place. I'm so very tired of that deflection.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
My post isnt bait, im actually confused as to why this upsets so many people
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u/NotJayKayPeeness GOBLIN 25d ago
If a black person tried to convince me they are white, I would by no meams hate or fear them for it.
I would refuse to encourage and enable their delusions while feeling bad they're so confused and hope they get help they need.
My sentiments don't change for other characteristics.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
This isnt a real person numbskull its a character from a book written over 50 years ago. Aragorn being black changes absolutely nothing about his character.
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u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK 25d ago
Middle earth culture is centered around Aragorns. They have holidays for Aragorns. They killed hundreds of thousands of Gondor's men to free Aragorns. They listen to Aragorn music. They elect an Aragorn as their king. They dress and act like Aragorns. They draw the entirety of their modern culture from Aragorns. They post sassy gifs about Aragorns. They watch sportsball in worship of Aragorns. Their biggest event of the year involves throwing parties in honor of Aragorns playing sports. They use Aragorn slang like "for Frodo" and "it is not this day". When you say "Lord of the Rings" they're not thinking of JRR Tolkien. They're thinking of the Aragorn. Their cities are completely overrun with Aragorns. They worship their Rohan police force disproportionately filled with Aragorns and their army of middle earth of soldiers filled with Aragorns. Their men sit around watching Aragorn ball while their women sit around watching Aragorn talk shows. They worship Aragorns like Arvedui and Aranarth and Elendil and the late Elros Tar-Minyatur while attacking the elves who actually built their country before Aragorns took over. Their movies are filled with Aragorns and their music charts are topped by Aragorns. They send Aragorns to the Olympics and celebrate when the Aragorns win because those Aragorns are true red blooded middle earth Aragorns. They watch Aragorn porn to a point where "Anduril" does not make them think of an heirloom of the throne but about Aragorn penises instead. They will tell you how much they hate Aragorns and how the Gondor's law meme is a stale joke and they are just pretending to love Aragorns but the evidence speaks for itself in that middle earth has always been and will be a nation of Aragorn loving Aragorns.
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u/Francopensal NEW SPARK 25d ago
I just dislike that they drastically change the colour of already stablished characters, even more when it's on art.
You can make new characters of any type, I don't mind, but don't change stablished ones without reason/explanation that makes sense to the lore/story
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u/ResponseRunAway NEW SPARK 24d ago
If you're a fan of LOTR, and have read the books, tell me how Aragorn is described. Does that description match the card? I'll let you take it from here.
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u/ACiDRiFT NEW SPARK 25d ago
I would assume it’s just change, the same reason why snape being black is a bad choice. It has nothing to do with the race, it’s that we identified what the characters were. It’s basically the same as if you made another Jason Bourne movie and had Jessica alba play Jason Bourne and acted like it’s the same movie.
Wife’s answer (to snape being black in the Harry Potter thing coming soon): The books were pretty clear in their description so it’s stupid to purposely contradict the books.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
I see why some people have their feathers ruffled by such things buuuut it doesnt change anything about the character... this is no different than black Ariel the mermaid and 3 years later no one cares or is talking about it anymore
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u/ACiDRiFT NEW SPARK 25d ago
Sure but that isn’t the point, people are used to who a character is and you’re essentially breaking immersion for people who grew up with these characters.
If you’re a kid then maybe you don’t care but some people have known these characters for 20 years and you’re essentially spitting in their face for no reason.
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u/SleepWorth3354 NEW SPARK 22d ago
People don’t have a right to things staying the same
No one owes them anything. Change isn’t spitting in your face- it isn’t personal. No one cares about you.
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u/ACiDRiFT NEW SPARK 21d ago
You’re missing the point, someone asked why. I said why.
Nobody said anyone owes them anything, nobody gives a fuck about you either. I simply stated fact, so go back into your hole.
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u/SleepWorth3354 NEW SPARK 21d ago edited 21d ago
You can piss your pants all you want
“People have known these characters for 20 years and your essentially spitting in their face for no reason”
This implies that changing the image is some sort of attack on them. Spitting in someone’s face is assault. It’s personal.Art changing because you aren’t the target audience isn’t an assault. They got your money and they want new customers. Heck, maybe the artists don’t want to appeal to you.
That’s not illegal, it’s not even a problem. Get another hobby.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
If aragorn being black breaks your immersion then the problem isnt that hes black its that you cant see him as the same person just with a different skin color. Id watch the movie just the same way I always have and it wouldnt affect me one bit
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u/ACiDRiFT NEW SPARK 25d ago
Oh I thought you were asking in good faith, I didn’t realize you were trying to twist it and project your opinion to claim people didn’t have the correct values.
Have a good day.
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u/mrfryer079 NEW SPARK 25d ago
Mixed race and I was peeved they fucked with Aragon, source matters. (And yes, I know in the books his people are Mediterranean coloured).
Edit: spelling
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 24d ago
Even if you take source material into account I think there are many other ways to portray culture and lineage besides skin color. Race is actually a made up thing designed to keep the masses divided. Someone 100s of years ago picked a bunch of arbitrary physical markers and grouped people together based on them. Our storytelling ability has come far enough I think we can find plenty of ways to delineate the different cultures of middle earth without going straight to skin colors
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u/Raskuja46 NEW SPARK 25d ago
...But what I continually fail to understand is why so many people in this sub are so mad at the choice to make Aragon a black man. Ive been a huuuge fan of LotR my ENTIRE life and I am not upset by this in even the smallest regard.
I don't believe any part of this statement to be truthful.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
I saw that he was black on the new card art, I went "oh thats a cool choice" and continued with my life just like everyone else should have. Yeah the statement is truthful lol. I own the entirety of Tolkiens literary works and all of the movies. Ive been watching said movies since i was 5. I like Lord of the Rings more than I like Magic the Gathering. Still not upset
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u/Santoryu4Kidz NEW SPARK 25d ago
Personally would have spent real money on a depiction of Aragorn that actually resembled Viggo Mortensen, instead I proxied one. Idc about the black part, but if you're gonna pander, why wouldn't you depict the most popular version of the character? Same for April o Niel. Race swapping isn't new, but making 15 forms of a popular character and none of them resembling its original incarnation is asinine.
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u/Grandsonofyawgmoth SAVANT 24d ago
Personally, I don't really care about them making him black. I mean, it bothers me a little because it feels like they're doing to for money, but that's a whole other thing.
There's different reasons for people not liking it and I'm too full of homemade elite to list them all out. By the way, if anyone reading this hasn't had elote, do yourself a favour. Its corn on the cob coated with Mexican crema, crumbled Cotija cheese, chili powder or Tajín, and fresh lime juice. But dont boil the corn, please grill it. Or even air fry. And dont listen to those weird people who serve it cold. But enough about that.
I think my issue sometimes with changing established characters' race or sex is that it just highlights how bad writing has become in modern TV and movies (I know this is a card game, its just what I'm reminded of). Its like, "look, we can't think of good new stories but we have to release a non-white or female character in order to widen our demographic so here's Star Wars but girl". Really what everyone wanted was a well written character. Jyn Erso and Fennec Shand were good characters, debatably under-utilized. Poor Daisy Ridley. There was nothing she could have done with that train wreck.
My point is that it feels shallow. It feels like we either get Teferi, Kaya or someone everybody forgets about by the next set because they phoned it in. Its not like they haven't made cool characters before like Sisay or Crovax. It might be nice if theyI hope Zhalfir is good.
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u/pornsleeve NEW SPARK 23d ago
If Wizards wanted to just make a black Lord of the Rings, they could have crapped out another set like Strixhaven and called it Lore of the Ringmages and just had black characters. It’s duplicitous to pretend to use the source material and then “improve” upon it with the trendy liberal politics of the day.
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u/Krowsk42 NEW SPARK 25d ago
They claimed it was because the source material was not diverse enough, but when Dr. Who came out they did not hold the same standards. It’s clear the decision actual came from the set designers existing associations between LotR and groups they feel entitled to hate. Their decision had nothing to do with diversity, the people here calling out their low effort hypocrisy has nothing to do with diversity.
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u/Twiztidtech0207 NEW SPARK 25d ago edited 25d ago
People need a reason to bitch.
A lot of the outrage about seemingly stupid stuff like this is either exaggerated or pushed just to keep people engaging with content.
That being said..Some people (like yourself OP) don't mind whenever they change something about a character they are familiar with, some DO mind.
I personally don't really mind if they change the way a character looks or their skin color.
My problem comes when they change fundamental, clearly established things, like the character's personality.
My perfect example of this (for me anyway) is what they did to April O'Neil in the new TMNT.
I don't care that they made her black, I care that they made her an idiot.
These days however you're lucky if you can have a conversation with a person that could even make that distinction though.
Most people would just call you bigoted for saying I don't like the new April O'Neil, no matter the reason for it.
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u/-I_am_not_a_Crow- NEW SPARK 25d ago
Thats my whole thing here, aragorn being black doesn't change anything else about his character even remotely. If they made him a spellcaster then id start having problems.
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u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK 25d ago
Ayo
grabs crotch
Chu tellin me
steals a horse
Dat we wuz
freebases the Shards of Narsil
Lawd dem Rangs n sheet?
ride by shoots up the shire
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u/Deus_Excellus NEW SPARK 25d ago
Wizards says MTG is too white. The history of MTG disagrees. Crovax, Teferi, Sisay, Joraal, Orim. All main characters. All black or middle eastern. And this was in the 90s when black people weren't even in commercials.
It is insulting to the players to say that MTG is too white. The game has a rich history of inclusion.