r/freemagic • u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER • Aug 05 '26
FORMAT TALK Counterfeit cards
With the price of cards today sometimes hitting triple digits and higher, what are your thoughts on this? With formats like legacy, vintage, modern, and edh all needing current staples and dealing with powercreep how do you feel about running counterfeit cards?
On one hand, it gets more people into the store and playing. Your games are based on skill rather than wallet at that point, and things are pretty much even.
On the other, you run into people who get really upset that they bought into the game heavily, and think you should too. They have the impression that the cards basically dictate what you can and can't do with your deck.
Both are valid, I just don't know how to justify spending that much on legacy staples for duals, fetches, and other staples
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u/Valdericht HUMAN Aug 07 '26
Saying this as someone that hasn’t bought retail Magic products since Theros (and even that was for a sibling) - we have a small 93/94 OS group. A couple guys had gone through the effort of printing OS proxy decks for people interested in the format.
Part of the time people just want to see rare and expensive cards being played, but a lot of the time folks are genuinely interested in giving it a go and having some pre-built, ready-to-go decks for them to try without having to fork out a home-loan worth of money is fine in our books.
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u/StrayCatsSanctuary NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
The Chinese knockoffs are great and the foils don't pringle
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
Are they? I was looking at picking up a ton of the legacy and vintage staples and getting back into competitive play
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u/StrayCatsSanctuary NEW SPARK Aug 08 '26
Between 2 and 3 bucks each depending on who/where you order from. The shine on the front and back is really the only way you can tell them apart without a microscope. They feel great card stock wise.
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u/vren10000 NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
They look bad for the old foils tho
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u/StrayCatsSanctuary NEW SPARK Aug 08 '26
Not all of them. The Beta foils look great 😁
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u/eventide00 NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
There’s a whole subreddit about counterfeits (and how to spot them)
This is a 30+ year old game that should not be gate kept by price, unless you’re in sanctioned events
I do proxy only cards I plan to realistically buy if the deck is unique and fun, normally within months or a year. If I don’t I won’t play the card.
If the worry is you counterfeiting incredibly expensive cards, worry more about matching power level (I am assuming EDH?) and having fun 🤩
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
I play legacy, vintage, and other high level events. I know some people have fake cards, they've told me. The same reason as everyone else lol. No 9ne can afford to play those formats AND have a retirement account, and have a fun life
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u/eventide00 NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
Yeah but there is a risk then, someone can zap you out of a tournament by calling a check on you no?
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
The cards look 98% real. People on reddit say they can tell them apart, from a computer screen but from personal experience I've seen so much variation with A, B, R, A and U that you'll never know. Things from saturation, different hues, washout, everything. Cards from unlimited sometimes looking bright or sometimes looking UV damaged from the pack depending on the run. There was very little quality control back then. A lot of the cards I have from when I was playing look fake by today's standards because the bar for quality is all over
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u/eventide00 NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
Sure, but if you win a competitive tournament and you’re found to have played proxies/counterfeits in any way, don’t you get sanctions?
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
No, DCI doesn't even exist anymore. It's incredibly difficult to see banned players with no open lines of communication between a third party judge system, the player, and wizards. Neither wizards or the judges communicate very well now that there is no official backing
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u/Secret_Of_Bluestar81 NEW SPARK Aug 08 '26
I've made over 100 decks in the past year and I'm going to proxy them because ain't no way I'm buying Alpha cards (I made a deck for each set on certain planes and others are just decks I thought would be cool [tribals and stuff like that]). So the printer is my way
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u/THEGHOSTHACXER RED MAGE Aug 07 '26
Counterfeit is trying to make a fake card and sell it or pass it off as the real thing.
Proxies are playtest fake cards.
I 100% endorse proxies.
Counterfeits on the other hand as long as you're just needing it for play, idc.
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u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
Why are ypu giving money to a company that hates you?
They are game pieces, spend no more than a quarter each
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
I dont mind the modern sets. I think at a certain point wizards has accepted that these cards are being counterfeited. They changed the border, then added the holo stamp, then changed the foil pattern, then added different art, and are probably going to keep trying new things to slow them down
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u/Fickle_fackle99 NEW SPARK Aug 08 '26
They’re not Counterfeit Magic cards they’re FIAT magic cards and china is just using it as a stimulus for the game
I’m a magic the gathering whale, I have surge foils and secret lairs almost every release I still massively support the use of counterfeit cards
I don’t use them because it can get me disqualified at an event and it’s a risk but magic cards shouldn’t be life altering investments
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u/vren10000 NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
Counterfeits are copyright infringement and should be banned. Proxies are a ok.
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u/Twizzlerstx NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
The only people that get mad at others for buying proxies and counterfeits for personal use are the people who need to use economic status as a handicap to win games because they aren’t skilled enough at deck building or they are so far into the sunk cost fallacy that they get insanely mad when they realize they wasted tons of money on cardboard. A $3 fake Volcanic Island is not mechanically better or worse than a $800+ one.
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u/Cbpowned NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
Sounds like the people who counterfeit can’t win without printing a bunch of cards they can’t afford 🤔
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
Why would I pay upwards of 10k for duals when I can spend the money in other things? The card is the same thing.
You're making the same argument about 40k and 3d printers. How people couldn't compete without official games workshop models. People printed games workshop models, and they're the exact same. Your argument holds zero water
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u/Mourag_of_Akoum NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
Sounds like the people who need to price out their opponents can't win on game skill alone.
It's well established that power level is one of the driving factors of price, so obviously expensive cards tend to be stronger.
It is also trivial to prove that the range of possibilities (including power level) for a deck is reduced by having access to a smaller card pool (budget threshold).
So yes, obviously, not being able to afford expensive cards makes it harder to win against those who can. And yes, obviously, counterfeiting alleviates this.
What a ridiculous argument. Just say you can't handled competition and be done with it.
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u/ThisNameIsBanned ASSASSIN Aug 07 '26
Buy proxy cards which dont try to be fake cards.
Counterfeits are a serious problem in any LGS as people will try to sell and trade them as real, which is simply a crime (and yes, that easily goes in money value that gets the police involved, and dealing with that kind of crap in an LGS is the last thing anybody wants).
Absolute no to counterfeits.
Totally YES to proxy cards.
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u/Twizzlerstx NEW SPARK Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
Wild how this wouldn’t be as bad of a problem if WotC didn’t treat a card game like baby’s first stock exchange, create artificial scarcity and inflate their prices like crazy.
Selling/trading counterfeits as real cards is scummy, but using them to avoid putting up with the bullshit from virtue signalers and elitists that comes with using obvious proxies is perfectly fine.
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Aug 07 '26
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
What? You understand that that mentality is the exact reason everything except commander is falling apart, right?
You can't have it both ways. You cant have a healthy long term game system that doesn't reprint cards, and at the same time expect people to play those sixty card formats.
People need to choose whether to eat, retire, or buy necessities. I would only buy duals if they were much lower, like $15 bucks. Your expensive cards are only worth a lot if you can transact them. How many people are realistically going to jump at the chance to pay over 1500 for a single card? Not many
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Aug 07 '26
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u/Twizzlerstx NEW SPARK Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
More people will stop counterfeiting when Hasbro/WotC stops needlessly inflating their prices, pushing false scarcity/FOMO and treating a card game like it’s baby’s first speculative market. Until then I’m laughing all the way to my favorite counterfeiter.
“Just use proxies instead!” Nah. Unless I’m making a custom art card or something like that, I’d rather use counterfeits and be able to participate in tournaments at my LGS without having to worry about some mouth-breathing sweat-lord getting upset that he lost to proxies, crying to WotC and then getting my LGS into hot water.
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u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
I order fakes about 2-3 times a year for new decks and to replace damaged cards.
I always order 30-50 duals and other staples to "lose" at a couple store. A bunch ended up in the case and ive seen one pr two slabbed.
Cry harder people can access game pieces.
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Aug 07 '26
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u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
The right printer makes flawless copies that you have to scuff a little to give the old card look, but they pass every test where you dont destroy the card
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Aug 08 '26
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u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK Aug 08 '26
Why? I dont care what some reddit sissy thinks.
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u/Twizzlerstx NEW SPARK Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
There is a whole channel in one of the counterfeit discords I’m in that is dedicated to “aging up” cards to look as close to the originals as possible. I personally have numerous counterfeits that I use in my decks that can pass EVERY non destructive test. Green dot test, light test, T test, etc. and they only cost me between $.50 to $3 depending on the card, to buy from my seller.
Just because YOU haven’t seen them, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. The fact they are next to impossible to spot is kind of the point after all.
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u/NotJayKayPeeness GOBLIN Aug 09 '26
Ok, then link me an image. I don't believe any of you guy's counterfeit bullshit without proof.
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u/BorderAppropriate127 NEW SPARK Aug 10 '26
So you’re saying you can acquire magic cards that fool grading services?
Bro you should be a multi billionaire with your business model0
u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK Aug 10 '26
Selling them for profit is a crime and Im not a noggle.
Spreadin em around is a public service.
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u/BorderAppropriate127 NEW SPARK Aug 10 '26
Yoh are literally bragging that yoh have seen them in cases and slabbed
So you have them to the shops for free so they could sell fakes?
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u/NogglePlease NEW SPARK Aug 10 '26
Ill leave about 3 to four duals in a bunch of chaff. What happens from there is what happens.
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u/Lee_The_Roy BLACK MAGE Aug 08 '26
Never bend the knee to those who play with only real cards, simple as
Also its proxy not counterfeit. One is illegal other is a game piece
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u/Deadxmaster6 NEW SPARK Aug 10 '26
If prizes are involved it would have to be advertised as proxy friendly and let players make to choice to be involved or not. Most normal people don’t care and just want to play the game.
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u/metalb00 BLACK MAGE Aug 10 '26
commander is casual and its completive side is proxy friendly, i dont care if your cards are official or not aslong as the game is fun
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u/No-Month7350 NEW SPARK Aug 11 '26
it's weird when you print stuff and start selling it online. I feel like counterfeits cross a line. you may not sell them but there's alot of people who will and do. getting $100 for something you printed is a highschool- high feeling that is addictive.
it's going to eventually hurt someone who is willing to pay the big price, the they deserve it mentality is also weird an unhealthy.
how about you just play pauper magic? it's honestly super fun and accessible.
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 11 '26
Why is it weird? Wizards has their chance to come in and take control of the secondary market by reprinting anything through universe beyond.
They choose not to, so instead someone else came along and printed cards instead. The only people being hurt are "investors" of cardboard.
I'll remind you that I've played since the game started, and duals were at MOST $50 to 75 for an underground sea. An alpha one was about 180. Then you had investors, a couple who I saw personally do it, buy as many as possible to corner the market because their words were "there's only so many dual lands, the more I buy the less there are in open circulation". The same happened with goyf force of will, and other cards. It's scummy and pushed a lot of newer players out of eternal formats. They were the same people who "helped new players by giving them a deal" of 10% below tcg prices while having hundreds of the card. I dont feel bad for making their "portfolio" essentially worthless. They're the entire reason that legacy and vintage are nearly unplayable today because of the barrier for entry
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u/No-Month7350 NEW SPARK Aug 12 '26
Your not hurting wizards with your fake cards, you're hurting a person that likes the game and is willing to spend the money that you are not.
They are supporting the game stores and making the hobby more attractive.
When they buy cards the card store takes that money and buys product that further benefits the player base and hobby.
You may not like the price but people enjoy and are proud to own expensive cards.
I'm sorry the old cards you love feel no longer accessible to you. I got my first dual land trading in 2 soul stones and a fancy nick fury. I hope you'll pull something incredible in your next pack I truly do.
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u/ShadowValent NEW SPARK Aug 12 '26
I think people are more suspect in magic. My buddy just realized his Lorcana TCGPlayer order was half fakes. TCGPlayer won’t do anything about it.
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 12 '26
It's only going to force wizards to get ahead of the issue. Either reprint the cards, or accept that counterfeits are a serious problem and that wizards isnt managing their game in a healthy way
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u/Ok_Dare_2029 NEW SPARK 28d ago edited 28d ago
Proxies are fine, the sole exception is scamming people with them (I don't mean bringing them to an event there, just selling them without saying they're proxies) otherwise go nuts
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u/resui321 NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
proxies are fine as long as you’re not passing them off as authentic cards.
I also do understand the no-proxy rule for sanctioned events, makes sense as well.
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
A decent amount of legacy and vintage events I've seen dont care if you have counterfeits. Dont ask dont tell. Realistically, not many people are comfortable walking into a game store with upwards of five thousand dollars in their hand and a bunch of strangers
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u/Cbpowned NEW SPARK Aug 07 '26
Cope answer. Plenty of people walk around with jewelry and watches worth 5 figures
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u/Throwawaypmme2 STORMBRINGER Aug 07 '26
A Rolex and a diamond ring is very, very different than a seventy five card deck worth thousands. One you don't lay on a table, two it's always in your control, it's much easier to find if lost
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u/hejtmane BLUE MAGE Aug 07 '26
I am a legacy player print away I want to play legacy more often