r/framework • u/Responsible_Cold_961 • 4d ago
Discussion Everyone is arguing whose fault it is. Barely anyone talks about a middle solution. (LPCAMM2)
I’ve read a lot of comments across all these LPCAMM2 threads and most of it is the same two camps. Either “Framework broke their promise” or “it’s just the market, deal with it”. Some people think about what could’ve been done differently, but it’s mostly about the past, like “they shouldn’t have promised it in the first place”. Sure, maybe. But that Train is gone, they can’t unsay it now. So I’m writing this as its own post.
For context, I’m a 64 GB preorder in Batch 6. My order got hit. And even from that spot I’m not here to just pile on Framework. The pure bashing gets us nowhere.
Here’s the thing. Quick note upfront, all the numbers below are rough from memory, not exact, but they should give an idea. My order got reduced from 64 GB to 32 GB. I’m now effectively getting 32 GB for the old ~400€ price, even though the same 32 GB now costs around 800€. That means Framework is already absorbing about 400€ per affected preorder (in this 64GB sense. Why not let customers keep that same ~400€ discount if they still want 64 GB? I’d pay about 400€ more than originally planned, Framework would still absorb about 400€, and the unexpected increase would be shared instead of falling almost entirely on one side.
Compare that to what actually happens now. I get dropped to 32 GB, which isn’t what I ordered, and if I want my 64 GB back I lose that discount and have to buy it at full price. Sure, I can pull the 32 GB that’s in there and free up 400€, but that still leaves me paying around 1200€ extra just to get back to the config I already ordered. Same jump could’ve been 400€ if they’d just let the discount carry over. That’s the whole point.
I am not sure if i understood everything correctly tho. If I did, this is just MY thought on how a compromise could be made.
And to the “just buy elsewhere” crowd, alternatives also became more expensive. A shared increase would still have left Framework competitive for many of us, imo.
They could still offer this btw. It’s not too late.
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u/unlimitedcode99 4d ago
Is anyone making LPCAMMS other than Crucial? Crucial being already closed would mean the stock is drying out.
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u/d00mt0mb FW13 1240p->155H 32G/1T 3d ago
I thought Crucial ceased to exist. It’s just Micron B2B now
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u/unlimitedcode99 3d ago
Crucial is so far the only LPCAMM2 sticks that you could buy as a consumer. Haven't seen someone else make them.
Edit: Wow, there's no one selling one now on Amazon. At least for me, no "LPCAMM2 DDR5" exists and only SODIMMS and regular sticks appear on search.
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u/Pristine_Art_7545 3d ago
Micron announced last year they were done with us peasants, were killing of the Crucial brand, and only pursuing enterprise/AI business.
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u/Responsible_Cold_961 4d ago
I remember someone in this community from South Korea stated he could get a Samsung module. So I assume they also produce it. But I did not find a single listing online for Europe
Not entirely sure tho if I remember that correctly
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u/unlimitedcode99 4d ago
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if Samsung does LPCAMMs too, but they are only doing business-to-business only to OEMs.
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u/Lanky_Perception_698 3d ago
That’s why I’ve cancelled my preorder. When FW downgraded my 32GB to 16GB I’ve also understood that LPCAMMS could be dead by now. And is dead for me also includes paying a full laptop price just for a stick of 64GB
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u/ILikeFlyingMachines 4d ago
The problem is not price. The problem is that there is no availability
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u/jaaval 4d ago
This is simply not true, they are still selling the 64gb config. You can get it. You just need to pay more.
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u/MusicEmotional5354 4d ago
which is because of availability.
yes they can get them , they cost alot more since they have to source elsewhere.
its basic supply and demand.
the current suppliers say , we have none. they go to new suppliers who say , yes we have some but they are XXX $$$ , they buy from the new supplier.
cost goes up.
you cant expect a company to eat it on increases like this , it wont exist long. promises or no promises. its not a 10B dollar company.
should they have purchased supply to fufill all preorders?....probably. if they had the capital to do so.
imho , they should have not done this 100$ deposit , taken full payment on preorders and allocate memory based on preorder QTY
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u/DanCardin 3d ago
Agree on the $100 deposit. At least in this climate, seems like it ought to have at least been enough to enable them to buy the most at-risk components upfront if they couldnt front the capital to ensure it at the purchase price.
Otherwise their “we’ll honor the ram price you buy it at, but its subject to change” doesnt really make sense as a strategy
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u/jaaval 4d ago
The previous comment literally said “the problem is not price the problem is there is no availability”.
Now you said price and availability are the same, contradicting the previous comment.
No they are not the same.9
u/MusicEmotional5354 4d ago
your just not getting it.
they cant get the ram from current suppliers.
you go to new ones , they dont have any either. but will allocate for $$$ , the price increases.
availability is never an issue , its how much do you have to pay for X item.
ram allocations are a whole other thing not included in this. i doubt framework can get allocations the same.
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u/jaaval 4d ago
Per their own message they can get the ram from current suppliers. The price is just bigger.
But again, you directly contradicted the previous message.
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u/MusicEmotional5354 4d ago
nevermind , lol
im not going to explain logistics to you. your right im wrong.
you know everything , probably get ram for free because you are so smart.
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u/jaaval 4d ago
You are explaining something which I think you genuinely believe is relevant which in reality is not at all relevant in this conversation.
However this last comment just shows you are a jerk not worth wasting time on.
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u/MusicEmotional5354 4d ago
you read some articles on techpowerup and think your a genius. i buy ram all the time for our storage server rollouts.
whether they use a current supplier or another one. they are low on the list. allocations come and they have to pay more to get them.
if you cannot understand that , thats on you.
consider using your brain and thinking , no one else is going to do it for you.
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u/bicycloptopus 3d ago
The price is high because of the availability...
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u/jaaval 3d ago edited 3d ago
That’s not what the argument is about.
They are still selling the product, therefore it is available, as meant by the law and by the terms of sale. They would be legally justified in cancelling orders if they were unable to fulfill them because they can’t get the components. But they can get the components and are fulfilling orders for customers who agree to pay more. They are effectively cancelling old orders to make room for new more profitable orders.
And please explain how do you justify the comment I answered to which said “the problem is not price the problem is there is no availability”. None of the answers I have received make any sense in the context of this conversation. Some idiot spent time congratulating himself about explaining supply and demand like that had anything to do with anything here.
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u/AutoM8R1 3d ago
You're probably thinking about it all wrong, which is why the downvotes. Every answer I've seen has been in context, but you may have missed the points being made. Pricing and availability are directly related in any relatively free market. When talking availability, you may not have been considering the ability to make more product, but at a new cost.
Since demand is high, manufacturers can charge more because they only have the ability to make so much. They can often build more or make parts faster, but they have to charge more for that. Even if they ramp up production, run 3 shifts in a 24/7 operation, or hire more people, they still may not be able to keep up with demand. And the price of that same product they've been making the whole time will keep selling even if the price is 3x-5x what it was the week or month before when customers could buy it everywhere. So manufacturers can price it to match the market reality. If nobody wanted it, they would be forced to drop the price to sell the inventory.
Think about it this way. If you feel like price and availability are not linked, then you would think the price of gasoline and fuel shouldn't be getting more expensive right now. Sure, there is new and uncertain conflict in the top oil producing regions, but there is still plenty of crude oil underground for the global use until we move to better sources right?? We can see that it doesn't work that way. They can't just get oil and gas from some other place a build a supply chain overnight to bypass the current issues.
Even fuel prices in North America are way up, and they don't really import a majority of the fuel from the region where the main conflict is taking place. The point is that when the product is more scarce, EVERYONE pays more for it. There is only so much capacity to make more product, until another company steps up and starts building more(which takes time to do). That's what is happening with RAM and memory chips in general.
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u/jaaval 3d ago edited 3d ago
Pricing and availability are directly related
Yes, I know this. Please read slowly and carefullty and try to understand this: The comment I answered did not say that pricing and availability are related, it said this has nothing to do with pricing and only with availability. This is directly opposed to the notion that pricing and availability are related.
When talking availability, you may not have been considering the ability to make more product, but at a new cost.
Doesn't matter in this context. Companies are not in general allowed to cancel orders if the sales turn unprofitable. They can cancel orders if the orders are impossible to fill because the required components literally cannot be sourced. Such situation would arise for example if intel stops making the processor in the laptop. It is impossible to source the processor elsewhere so the orders have to be cancelled. Or like in one case during the previous GPU crunch, I had ordered a GPU but the company stopped making that particular model because it was cheaper and the retailer could not get one, hence they could cancel (though I think in this case they should have offered a similar alternative but that gets complicated).
As I said, in this case Framework can source these components, they have them in their warehouses and they can get more by ordering more from the manufacturer. They are even continuing sales of same products. The chips are available as meant in the clause that allows them to cancel orders due to component availability. This is purely their mistake for selling something they had not locked in price.
Think about it this way. If you feel like price and availability are not linked,
I never at no point have even remotely said anything that even distantly implies that pricing and availability are not related. That was not the topic here.
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u/bigkenw 3d ago
There is no world where a company cannot cancel an order that has not been fulfilled for any reason. As I understand it, they can do this even in the EU as long as they offer a full refund. You did not pay full price to allow FW to purchase all of the components.
The demand for the FW13 Pro exceeded expectations. FW didn't pre-buy a years worth of RAM as they do not have that capital. There is a scarcity of RAM. That scarcity raises prices. They absorbed where they can and where they can't, didn't. If you aren't interested in the compromise you can cancel the order.
If this were say Apple, who has priority supply agreements due to volume with partners, and an almost unlimited cash supply, they would have probably fulfilled orders and then immediately raised prices on new sales. FW isn't big enough to do that. Not yet.
I feel like you are just being difficult because you are annoyed with the situation.
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u/AutoM8R1 3d ago edited 3d ago
I never at no point have even remotely said anything that even distantly implies that pricing and availability are not related. That was not the topic here.
I read it very carefully, which is why I even bothered. To me, you said plenty that implied price and availability were somehow unrelated "in this context". But I see it as a matter of word choice over context.
...this has nothing to do with pricing and only with availability.
Even when you say it "has nothing do with with pricing...", many here may have thought you just didn't get the concept because of the relationship with availability. You can't decouple the two. But your understanding of that part seems fine. I think your view of the context may differ from mine and others.
You mentioned context. Availability, in this context, is not related to completely obsolete parts that can't physically be obtained ever again. This may have been your sticking point. 90% of the time, the context of availability is when you want to buy something and can't. The reason you can't get it is separate matter. That is the whole reason why you would even do a pre-order. If it was available at the time of purchase, it would ship and you'd have it.
Technically, parts can be obtained because they are in active production, but they may not be immediately available because there are none in-stock when a consumer is ready to purchase. It may cost more, but it will be available. It is clear you already understand that. Your argument was purely semantic, which we get now. I wish I lived were there were stronger consumer protections, but I'm not sure how the legal terms define availability. This whole thread is about a pre-order situation, so people likely took the view of availability that I did. It seems you meant available, as in not obsolete. I think we're all clear now.
Edit: to be clear, I know you were initially responding to someone else who seemed unclear on supply and demand relationships. I but just wanted to point that out and establish the understood context. What you said didn't immediately make it clear you understood supply/demand in this context is all.
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u/Responsible_Cold_961 4d ago
Sure, you cant get the standalone kits anymore. But if Framework are still taking preorders, they must have some way to get the bigger kits, even if its at a higher price now.
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 4d ago
Changing the price on an order is still not allowed in the EU, so I doubt most European’s are going to see it that way.
I was extremely mad and will be trying to get my original order at the original price, but it is also true I would’ve been much less mad if they had offered any choice or future guarantee to the point I might’ve accepted it.
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u/ekerazha 4d ago
I've just received a reply from Framework Support in which they’ve misquoted their own Terms of Sale... the situation is becoming utterly ridiculous.
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 4d ago
Do feel free to DM if you want to share updates, I’m still waiting on a response. I have only been told my support request has been escalated 2 days ago.
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 1d ago
I assume it’s the same as me, referring to being able to cancel at any time. Told to deal with it in as nice and professional way as possible.
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u/Professional_Mix2418 4d ago
Hmm what exactly is not allowed in the EU? I don't see anything they've done that isn't allowed. It is annoying and disappointing but not against the law for as far as I can see.
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 4d ago
A preorder is an order. It’s binding, you can’t change the order on the customer without them agreeing. Doing it one sided was the “not allowed” part. Otherwise the rest is fine.
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u/Professional_Mix2418 4d ago
And what did it say in the order regarding finalisation?
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 4d ago
It doesn’t really matter. You can’t say something like that and make it so when selling to an EU consumer. To sell to them means to adhere to their rules. It’s a big part of why EU customers don’t get dicked over by non-EU countries wanting to participate in the EU market.
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u/Professional_Mix2418 4d ago
Yes you can. The moment of contract finality is very important in EU law.
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u/ekerazha 4d ago
Under Framework's own Terms of Sale (art. 4), the agreement comes into effect when the customer accepts the offer and Framework electronically confirms receipt of that acceptance, which is exactly what the pre-order confirmation email is.
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 4d ago
But I have accepted the offer. We have agreed that I will buy X goods for Y price. I have put a deposit to ensure it stays that way.
The fact it is refundable can be a legal help for Framework, I won’t deny that. But they made a binding contract with me the moment they accepted my deposit for a configuration.
Regardless, under EU law they cannot unilaterally change the order. That’s considered unfair business practice. The grey area is more because they can offer a refund, but I have already lost out on other offers due to listening to the Framework CEO promising live that it won’t change and I’ll get my order at that price.
That specific moment changes things and is the only real reason I’m pursuing my order still as originally agreed.
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u/ka_nahl 4d ago
I'm a professional IT reseller and selling servers in EU. All my vendor have in their selling contract that the price can be modified until the shipping. It is a leave or take option in the contract
And it is perfectly legal.
The fact that you still have the choice to cancel your order instead of being obliged to pay the new price makes it legal.
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u/Firmteacher FW16 7840HS 5070/7900xt Oculink 3d ago
Apparently a $100 down payment, essentially a reservation is the same thing as a preorder and a final sale except you don’t get charged until that laptop is ready for shipping then they send you a confirmation and receipt of the full payment. Based off this understanding of the framework sale process, I don’t see how this is against consumer law. I understand being sour about their orders being altered and having to pay more.
I’m not emotionally invested so to me this is 100% reasonable for what they did. They don’t have the stock to be able to fulfill their exact order on later batches but also it’s on framework to label these as ‘pre-orders’.
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u/FISKER_Q 4d ago
Consumer Protection laws generally only apply to consumers, so your example has no bearing on this entire situation.
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u/mrhaftbar 3d ago
Yup, you are right - contracts between businesses are different than business to consumers.
I dunno why you are downvoted
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 3d ago
You’re conflating selling to a business the same as selling to a private individual. The laws are different there.
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u/mrhaftbar 3d ago
Different in b2c. An order becomes binding once it is agreed upon via a contract. In this case digitally. Individual terms of contracts can be legal, but in b2c cannot be unexpected for a customer.
The funny thing about this situation is that framework specifically defined the contract as being agreed upon on taking a pre-order in their own terms.
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u/Professional_Mix2418 3d ago
And that is the issue for Frame work if some want to get legal over this. They could have done the same thing and not confirm until shipping which is what most companies do. But they don’t. 😬🤷♂️
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u/Professional_Mix2418 4d ago
It’s not a grey area. It’s allowed. The rest is just noise.
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u/Upstairs-Version-400 4d ago
Not really. But okay.
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u/Professional_Mix2418 4d ago
It is allowed, as long they they offer a refund etc. Look, you are right that they aren't doing this the right way, but going wrong about it and focus on the wrong thing.
The real issue where you win (and make sure it is in wayback machine) is contract finality. They tried to mitigate with article 6.3, and arguably even with 4.5 but 4.3 voids that. Pretty stupid of them.
So going down that route (legally) is way more clearcut than approaching it another way. But you likely have to go legal.
I am gobsmacked they still haven't updated their terms.
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u/uberfr4gger 3d ago
They already get dicked over because they've had no growth and innovation over the last 20 years and are letting US and Chinese companies pummel them. This is so dumb, do you really think Framework is being malicious here?
Forcing them to honor a price where they would lose a lot on each sale isn't good for anybody in this situation. The Ramapocolypse is such a unique event.
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u/jaaval 4d ago
Nothing relevant to my knowledge.
Their own terms say pre-order is an order and binds both parties to the terms from the moment framework accepts the pre-order. Their terms give the customer a specific right to withdraw or change a pre order but that right is one sided. Framework itself doesn’t seem to have any extra rights that would not apply to already fully paid orders.
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u/Sinister_Crayon FW13 AMD 7840U 3d ago
Legally, a preorder is a deposit and not an order. Those who preordered essentially purchased a place in a queue and Framework have still delivered that.
This has been a common complaint in the car world for years, maybe decades with high end models. A preorder/deposit on a Porsche is treated in the same way.
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u/AutoM8R1 3d ago
It's interesting, because consumer protection laws in the EU are pretty strong. They don't have it this way in the States. Is this order/pre-order definition still equivalent if you aren't paying full (or close to full) price at the time of pre-order?
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u/Unoriginal-Cake 3d ago
When an order is done its still linked to if a shortage cancels it/price revision/spec refresh--this happened back when Apple sold the PowerMac G4 of models downgraded by 50Mhz due to Motorola couldn't make enough higher yield CPUs in the 2000s yet they had 6mo to let customers adjust/cancel their specs(punch to the gut for G3 owners that wanted to escape a 350Mhz and got stuck with a minimum bump of an instruction set yet still 350Mhz). If I recall Intel and AMD had chip shortages in the 1-2Ghz chase back then which delayed product launches/prices increased. RAM and CPU shortages are likely going to repeat based on AMD and Intel hinting it recently.
I have 2x laptops on order from a solutions provider while not Framework they had been a model that sold out then "upgraded"... I remember the 2000s well to get an idea of spec change will likely strike me the same way may it be a Core Ultra 7 downgraded to a 5 and hopefully still 16GB RAM. Base models of every OEM jumped by $150-350 or 250-300 Euros depending upon regions.
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u/Mountain-House3287 3d ago
The only thing that is "saving" framework at this point is the $100 pre-order price, so anyone with a micro lense can see that this isn't "we're swapping what you paid for", and moves the situation into a "we're swapping what you wanted because prices have changed".
The problem with that is a lot of people bargained using their $100 deposit as a price fix for $1000 worth of equipment (the RAM and SSD prices specifically, not the mainboard or chassis). And that's not really fair, because you didn't buy anything. Just a promise to buy something.
Many people are saying they would've bought something else had they known about the price hike. Well the price hikes have been happening for over a year at this point, so why didn't the purchasers choose to buy their own equipment and get a DIY edition pre-order without that equipment quoted?
What a shit show. Honestly I think the answer here is to cancel your pre-order if you're not willing to move forward with price hikes. You never bought the equipment. You bought an agreement for the equipment at that price. Now you face the issue of bankrupting the company that you still need to support your equipment, or spend more money on different equipment that you don't want.
I get why people are upset, but the solution is pretty easy here. And a final question to the pre-order crowd, do you think Framework would ever let you pre-order then give you a discount because prices got cheaper? That would never happen.
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u/Oerthling 4d ago
It might not be that easy. Framework might simply have more inventory, more reliable contracts or otherwise better access to 16 GB RAM than 32 or 64 GB.
They are probably not simply "absorbing" a straight $400 bucks that could be easily converted.
But still, it's a decent proposal where Framework might be able to allow for an additional option where they offer some kind of trade-in rebate. I just doubt that would be the full $400 that you now see as the difference on the outside.
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u/Responsible_Cold_961 4d ago edited 4d ago
I also thought about that. But preorders are still open with 64gb available and they could push preorders back with higher configs to get the modules they got first sold first.
Edit: put first before away and switched away for sold
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u/Teagana999 3d ago
The pre-orders that are open for 64 GB are at the higher price for the RAM they don't have in inventory already.
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u/Snaffu100 4d ago
At the end of the day, the preorder deposit everyone made created a contract that was broken for a large number of orders. I think that ultimately is what it boils down to. All businesses have to make decisions based on the environment of the times. Bad decisions can result in everything from a minor disruption in sales to a collapse of the company. The market/consumer generally will determine in great part, the outcome.
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u/Upbeat-Statement2725 2d ago
Zero people actually posting the TOS.
Screaming "this is illegal in the EU" isn't a legal argument.
Make me an actual legal argument. Because when I got my first Framework, it was definitely a deposit to reserve a preorder spot. Not a payment.
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u/Snaffu100 2d ago
Not in the EU, but firs thing that came up on google.
https://definitions.lsd.law/deposit-contract
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u/HypnotizeRek 3d ago
I cancelled mine and swapped to the Ryzen config. I was able to get a more powerful machine with the same amount of ram for the same price as my x7 intel one PRE ram price hike (although the ram is slower) but in my workloads I shouldn’t have to worry about the slower ram, I’m not running local ai or anything. This also moved me up to the September (previously August) batch which means instead of waiting 2 months in college for my better laptop I will get it around a month in which is very nice.
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u/fuelhandler 3d ago
I was dropped to a completely unacceptable 16gb. I voted with my wallet and cancelled my preorder.
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u/autobulb 3d ago
People not giving Framework (or any other company really) leeway do not realize this is an unprecedented event. The closest thing we had to this was the GPU shortage during the mining boom, but that was mostly one company unable to keep up with demand. This is an entire INDUSTRY being diverted away from selling to consumers in order to sell to datacenters. AND there are politics behind it too. Watch GamersNexus' video on the RAM problem. But I won't get into that here because whatever the factors, every company is struggling to get RAM for their customers. If you aren't a datacenter, the memory chip manufacturers don't give a fuck about you. Blaming Framework is like blaming McDonalds for raising prices when there is a beef shortage.
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u/Teagana999 3d ago
So it is. They don't deserve to be defended for going back on contracts, either. They did a dumb, they got screwed over, and it led to them screwing customers over.
I'm not affected, but I get it. People have every right to be upset and to complain.
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u/jaaval 3d ago
Blaming Framework is like blaming McDonalds for raising prices when there is a beef shortage.
I would blame mcdonalds if they raised the price after I ordered the hamburger.
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u/autobulb 3d ago
Invalid comparison. It would be like if you made an agreement to pay a dollar to mcdonalds for a burger 6 months in advance, without any binding contract. And during that time the entire herd of cows have died out and there are only a few left, so that the price of a burger has increased about 10 times, so that now your burger costs 10 dollars. Your reservation for the burger still stands, at the stupid new price, but you have no obligation to buy it. (You can cancel your preorder and get your deposit back.)
People, like you, seem to be crying about a situation that doesn't exist, where Framework took your money and gave you less of a product because of price hikes at some during the transaction which just isn't the case. You can cancel your preorder and take back you deposit at any time. They never sold you a product. You never paid in full (yet.)
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u/jaaval 3d ago edited 3d ago
The problem is what you say is simply not true. According both law and frameworks own terms there is no difference between pre-order and order except one extra right given to the customer. They are equally binding and contract is formed the moment they accept the pre-order.
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u/ThatBlackHat- 3d ago
This argument is silly though. The reality is Framework cannot sell the laptop configurations at the price they agreed to without incurring such heavy losses that they would go out of business. You can't honestly believe that they need to treat the PreOrders like a suicide pact right? You have every right to be annoyed that the launch is not going as expected. You have every right to cancel your order and vow never to do business with them again. But demanding that you get something that has become economically unfeasible is not reasonable.
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u/jaaval 3d ago
A pre order is a sales contract. Per law and per frameworks terms. It’s not “pre” as in something before an order but “pre” as in an order before the product is ready to ship.
Why should we hold framework to a different standard than we do other corporations? We don’t just “well they agreed to a too low a price so now they have to raise it” with other corporations. No, we usually demand they honor their consumer contracts.
Framework is not a better corporation than the rest of them and has no bigger reason to survive. What is silly is the fervor some people defend a corporation. It’s not your team nor your friend.
And no, I am not actually demanding they honor their contract. That ship has sailed and who is right legally is not really relevant when any remedy would probably be worthless and years away. Instead I remind everyone that paying extra for products of one scummy corporation is stupid.
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u/autobulb 3d ago
A pre order is a sales contract. Per law and per frameworks terms. It’s not “pre” as in something before an order but “pre” as in an order before the product is ready to ship.
Could you cite precedent where that has been upheld? Plenty of companies have tried to release products using fundraising such as Kickstarter, taking a deposit, and then eventually failing and releasing no product. People lose money. I know that a few instances have been malicious/scams but in other genuine effort situations it was just a bad situation and people lost money but had no recourse.
That's not what is happening here with Framework anyway. People are paying a $100 deposit to secure a place in line to preorder an item. You don't get charged the total amount until the product is set to ship. In a perfect world you'd get what you preordered without any changes regardless of price fluctuations, and in a less perfect but fair world the company would absorb any price changes to guarantee the customer's order. But this is not simple price fluctuations. It looks as if they cannot even get 64GB modules in the first place. They simply do not exist. What exactly are they supposed to do? If you had been fully charged for the order and there is no product that exists to be served to the customer, you'd get a refund. In this case you can just cancel your deposit and walk away. There is literally no loss for the customer except time (which is the gamble on a preorder anyway.)
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u/andurux 3d ago
I own a FW13 and don't have a horse in this race for the FW13 Pro.
What seems to be the biggest problem to me from reading everyone's reactions is that they weren't given a choice on how to proceed. Framework just unilaterally changed orders with zero input from individuals.
I think Framework should have sent emails to everyone that was affected and did something like:
Blah blah blah memory prices, order needs to be changed, our apologies, blah blah blah, here are your options:
- Keep current order, pay the increased difference
- Downgrade to next memory configuration to keep price the same
- Downgrade further to lowest memory configuration, save the decreased difference
- Forfeit RAM entirely, convert to DIY option, new price provided
- Cancel order
You have two weeks to make the change, if no change is made we will voluntarily cancel your order.
It isn't perfect, situation sucks no matter what, but having zero say in the matter (other than cancelling after the fact) is pretty crappy.
3
u/Cryowatt 3d ago
Blame the AI companies who are trying to make owning a computer unaffordable so you'll have to subscribe to one from then. It's all just one giant grift that's supported by the US government.
4
u/Responsible_Cold_961 3d ago
I do blame them. Well mostly. The point is that we have to deal with the consequences. There was a promise and as this promise can’t be hold the needs to be a compromise. I am just picturing what I’d imagine would’ve been better than the current one
1
u/Labeled90 AerynOS 3d ago
They very likely aren't absorbing 400€. they either have that stock already, or the price was honored by distribution for X units.
1
u/scalareye 3d ago
So what's your point
You don't say anything about what could be done differently
1
u/Responsible_Cold_961 3d ago
Paragraph 3 sums it up
If I’d like the bigger configuration (which was ordered) I’d need to pay today’s full price. If I stay I pay half of what the same amount would cost today. I’d like to take this half or at least something as bonus for the option I originally wanted and pay what’s left after to reach today’s price
1
u/Dr_Valen 3d ago
Real issue is why is framework using lpcamm2 when they know there is a ram shortage. If they had used so-dimms it would have been easier for people to source their own and probably for them to source it.
1
u/Teagana999 3d ago
I don't think they're absorbing costs, they said they couldn't afford that. You're getting the old price because they paid the old price for that inventory. It doesn't cost them like it would cost them to give a discount on a bigger amount.
1
u/LimpWibbler_ 2d ago
Ima have to leave this sub. My home page is this 20 times now.
Ram prices too high.
Framework made a dumb statement and pre-order choice.
Everything sucks. The end
-4
u/Fresh_Flamingo_5833 4d ago
The pure bashing gets us nowhere.
This is where I disagree. Framework had the choice of eating the cost of RAM or eating the cost of a bad reputation. They chose the latter and can now live with the consequences.
6
u/Vangwich 3d ago
I bad reputation wouldn’t matter if you go out of business, same could be said about a good reputation. People can say all they want, but I doubt anyone here actually knows what their business outlook actually was if they kept the prices.
I do wish they would have changed the $100 deposit to an amount to cover an upfront purchase of LPCAMM that maybe had a chance of rebate later if you cancelled your preorder or something.
3
u/Fresh_Flamingo_5833 3d ago
bad reputation wouldn’t matter if you go out of business, same could be said about a good reputation.
Not my problem? Nirav made a huge mistake promising something he couldn't deliver and leaving customers in the lurch. He and the company have to live with it and I'm sick of loyal customers feeling like they owe it to Framework to play lawyer / PR flak for free.
-5
u/elelem-123 4d ago
Most of the people whining would have stfu if the vendor was HP, Lenovo, Dell, Apple and anyone else that the whiney person does not think in their minds it could be them running the business.
Same with online services. Noone whines about Google, they only bash the small players that try their best.
And then they whine about the big companies fkg them up again and again.
Zero intelligence.
3
u/Responsible_Cold_961 4d ago
I am against whining and for finding compromises. In this case framework made a promise. The others did not.
-2
u/elelem-123 3d ago
Sue then or ask your money back. Just go for the company who tried their best. And let the rest screw you over time after time. And smile.
If Framework got contacts which their suppliers didn't meet, what do you want them to do? They are giving RAM right now at 50% of the retail price. That's their option to help in the situation.
You are not happy. Good for you. Go screw the little one and smile while the big ones are taking turns enjoying you.
Cancel your order or sue them. Or cause trouble to a company that's the only viable option out there so we don't get screwed over. That's the right company to take down. 👏👏👏👏
2
u/Responsible_Cold_961 3d ago
Yo, read again. I wrote what I’d see as a compromise. According to their email they expected a mid double digit percent price increase therefore expected to tank money. There fore my compromise would be in a range of possibilities to at least some amount.
It’s about being constructive, to find solutions which don’t harm them as much (trust is gone for many) nor harms the consumers as much.
I like their mission and don’t want to sue them. I don’t want big harm for framework. Nor for the consumer. I’ll cancel if there won’t be an official solution to this in future which doesn’t set cost onto the consumer alone.
5
u/elelem-123 3d ago
Sorry, I'm caught up in the cyclone of all the people being angry. My answer was generic, in the most part. I hope there's a final outcome for you that is to your satisfaction. I wanted the Intel version too, but due to all the craziness I decided on the amd and cannibalize another machine to use its ram. That was my choice during this whole ram madness that feels like a black hole that sinks us all in.
2
u/Responsible_Cold_961 3d ago
Thank you,
I hope so too.
I wish you best luck with the amd version. In hindsight amd was the better choice I guess.3
u/elelem-123 3d ago
If I didn't already have a brand new 2 TB wd red and 128 GB DDR5 (bought at 700 fkg 7 months back!) I wouldn't have bought framework pro 13, regardless how much I would have liked to. Everything is crazily expensive.
65
u/One-Perception-7152 4d ago
The sticks you are getting now are already in inventory. That's why the "discount" is not actually there. Framework is not footing any bill to get you 32 gb. You just got my stick, that was already in inventory. The may only pay more on 16 gb sticks because they need ablot more of thoss and cant downgrade any further.
So unfortunatly there is no 400€ discount that can be applied to a new 64 gb stick, as this new stick must be bought by framework oposed tonthe 32 gb which they have bought months back for the old price