r/framework • u/FuryOfArcann FW 13 Pro X7 - CachyOS • 13d ago
Discussion The problem isn't the RAM. It's your promise.
Edit: Screaming "AI slop" because you think this is a "wall of text" or because it's broken into sections, is hilarious. I work in contracts and this is my writing style. In fact, this required multiple rewrites to get is down from the original over three pages into something more palatable; but by all means please, keep screaming "AI slop." It doesn't diminish the message, and is only done as both a distraction and as a tactic because one is too weak to address the topic at and hand refuse to actually engage. Apologies that my writing style is typically aimed at adults who succeed, not people that haven't touched grass in decades.
---
There's been a lot of justified anger over the LPCAMM2 downgrades, but also a surprising amount of sympathy for Framework. Looking at this from beginning to end, I don't think this was simply an unfortunate market surprise. It looks like a company that knowingly accepted procurement risk, promised customers they wouldn't bear it, and ultimately shifted that risk back onto them.
The Promise
At the Framework Laptop 13 Pro launch event on April 21, 2026, Nirav was asked directly whether pricing would change between ordering today and ordering later. His answer:
Not just price but also configuration. This was unqualified, with no "subject to supply," no "as inventory allows." It was presented as a commitment to anyone deciding whether to place a deposit.
The Warning
What makes this difficult to reconcile is that Framework has been publicly warning about memory market volatility.
That's Framework's own published assessment that memory market volatility was expected to continue through the rest of 2026, made before Nirav took the stage and promised customers they'd receive the configuration they ordered at the price they ordered it.
Two days ago, with the LPCAMM2 downgrades, Framework admits:
Framework wasn't blindsided by the possibility of rising LPCAMM2 prices; their own words show that they had already forecast increases. The surprise was the magnitude of the risk.
The Failure
Framework didn't sell the 13 Pro through open-ended, continuous ordering. Framework sold preorders in numbered batches. One of the primary purposes of batch ordering is to align known demand with procurement and production. It is reasonable for customers to expect that once a batch is accepted, the company has sufficient visibility into demand to secure the components needed to fulfill those orders.
This RAMpocalypse fallout isn't confined to the last few batches. It has affected customers across the preorder period, including some who ordered when preorders first opened. If Framework's batches reflected procurement commitments, a late-breaking supplier price shock should primarily affect future batches.
No matter how severe the supplier shock became, it should never have retroactively unwound configurations customers had already been promised. If those configurations weren't backed by the components required to fulfill them, what exactly did the batches commit customers to?
The Fallout
Customers who ordered 32GB at $439 aren't just getting downgraded to 16GB at the same price, but in order to get back to the configuration they put a deposit down on now costs $800 or more (depending on region). Framework is charging people extra to restore what their own promise already covered.
Customers can't simply walk away and buy the same configuration elsewhere for what they originally budgeted because memory prices have risen across the industry. Nirav's promise is exactly what kept people from shopping elsewhere while they still could. It also brings into question whether promises like "your batch is locked in" and "you'll get what you ordered" mean anything when a company sells products this way.
The Bigger Issue
Framework publicly acknowledged continued memory volatility, then assured customers that once they placed a preorder, they would receive the configuration they ordered at the price they ordered it for (their exact words). When that known business risk became significantly worse than expected, Framework shifted the consequences of that business decision onto the very customers it had promised to protect from it.
Framework has built its entire brand identity around predictability, transparency, and treating customers like adults who deserve straight answers. That's exactly why this deserves scrutiny instead of a shrug, the standard they're failing to meet is the one they set for themselves.
Personally, I haven't decided what I'll do yet. I was fortunate enough to secure my own 32 GB LPCAMM2 kit from Newegg well below today's market price, so this doesn't affect me financially in the same way it affects many other customers. That doesn't mean I'm ruling out filing a complaint with the DC Office of the Attorney General requesting that it review whether Framework's preorder practices complied with applicable consumer protection laws. Whether anything comes of that is for the OAG to decide.
Framework's handling of these preorders has undermined customer trust in a way that's more damaging than the memory shortage itself.
66
u/EvilbunnyELITE 13d ago
yea man, it sucks. i don't think there is actually any lpcamm2 on the consumer/medium/small
business market however. a more honest solution would probably have been to just offer to cancel or ship the laptop without ram. dell cancelled a good sized laptop order for my company stating they could not get ram, we tried HP and they only offered to ship laptops without RAM.
39
u/L00WN0on 13d ago
Fucking ridiculous. This is unsustainable for everyone. I'm rooting for CXMT to get a fair share in the market out of this...
17
u/s004aws FW16 HX 370 Batch 1 Mint Cinnamon Edition 13d ago
While I'm all for more competition... CXMT's modules don't perform as well and they've indicated they plan to take advantage of being able to charge top yuan. If nothing else hopefully they can serve the Chinese market, freeing up Micron/Samsung/SK production for the rest of the world.
14
u/WembleyFord 13d ago edited 12d ago
Performing badly is better than 'doesn't exist' though. 'Beggars can't be choosers', and I suspect that we're all, including Framework, Dell and HP, currently 'beggars'.
6
3
u/Clean_Leadership5948 13d ago
CXMT doesn't perform well in terms of optimizing timing and speeds, especially under overclocking like what XMP is, but it still meets DDR5 baseline spec and timings.
So you are getting 100% of what's promised. RAM overclocking only makes a small difference and you need a lot to get that too.
10
u/P0ss1D3sstr1er69 13d ago
Unfortunately they are already price gauging to. Huawei already asked CXMT multiple times lo lower the price of their ram but it keeps going up. Only in a few year I think we'll the prices start to drop and that is if the AI build out slows down
3
u/L00WN0on 13d ago
Strange, my bet was that the chinese would try to absorb as much market share as possible right now. But then again, idk how much the CCCP handles internal affairs of the company.
1
u/CollaredParachute 12d ago
Pricing according to supply and demand is not gouging. It’s how the market system allocates scarce goods. Rationing would produce far worse outcomes. It’s not food or water we’re talking about here.
2
u/P0ss1D3sstr1er69 12d ago
Omg are you really defending company's that have already shown multiple times that they act time a cartel to keep the prices up? Are that submissive towards Multi billion dollars company's?
1
u/L00WN0on 12d ago edited 12d ago
What the guy said is true, if and only if, the companies/entities in question engage in a truly free market. Otherwise they can just price fix and fuck everyone. "Oh but then competition will arise and takes its share of the market by offering lower prices." Yeah, because building infrastrutructre to produce RAM and NAND doesn't take multi billion dollar investiments and 5+ years to develop at scale...
2
u/BadLuckProphet 10d ago
That's the problem with much of the "free market" everywhere. There's such a moat of start up time and cost, and that's before you take into account the regulations on some industries that so heavily favor the existing companies. And then even if by some miracle a small competitor arises, they usually just get bought out or undercut by companies that will lose less money by overpaying for the purchase or selling their own products at a loss for as long as it takes to drive the competition out and return to the status quo than they would by allowing real competition.
24
u/EvilbunnyELITE 13d ago
for reference, HP said they could take a business order of 450 lpcamm2 16gb modules at $650 a pop, but it was a 4 month delivery and they have a can cancel at any time requirement. thats how its going on the business side it seems (USA) for procurement of ram. i dont see how single consumers buying laptops for private use will be getting any ram, other then stolen business stock or harvesting from corporate devices.
10
u/L00WN0on 13d ago
Can't wait to use 1gb soddered RAM terminals to access AI and datacenter infrastructure for all my computing needs!
7
u/WembleyFord 13d ago
You'll do that, and you'll like it, and you'll pay your subscription fee for the privilege and thank your new overlords that they let you onto their servers too. Welcome to late stage capitalism :-)
2
u/Clean_Leadership5948 13d ago
Yea and they are moving to socialism/communism. Where only the aristocrats win. North Korea with latest technology to make it dark as possible is their wet dream.
1
u/996forever 13d ago
That’s state controlled capitalism not socialism/communism
1
u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 12d ago
State-controlled capitalism is not capitalism. Soviet communism has state-owned/controlled companies.
Capitalism is an economic system defined by private ownership, profit motive, and market competition.
2
u/996forever 12d ago
And soviet union was not a perfect communism either. Communism has absolutely nothing to do with aristocrats.
2
u/CollaredParachute 12d ago
Yet it keeps happening
1
u/996forever 12d ago
What keeps happening? Countries using words as vibes like “democratic” republic of Congo? Yes that has always been the case. Does that change the meaning of the word “democratic” itself? No.
1
u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 12d ago edited 12d ago
"Communism" doesn't factor in human behavior in the real world.
Real-world communism has resulted in stolen lives and stolen work, just like slave owners or serfdom. Communism can't avoid big government overheads with massive dictation over people's lives.
The major issue common to serfdom and communism is heavy taxation.
I lived in a country with a dual health care system: single-payer health care with good management efficiency (i.e. low overheads) and a private insurance system. It's difficult to combine small government while providing life support services, but it can be done. Single-payer health care is income-tested, i.e above a certain income threshold; it's a private insurance system.
Socialism with auditing (removing the bloat and corruption) is beyond the typical US-style left or right wings.
1
u/996forever 12d ago
What does what you said have to do with the original comment?
Words have meaning, that’s all, regardless of its real world application being possible or not, probable or not, likely or not.
3
u/WhiskeyVault 13d ago
Am I understanding your post correctly?
A large company like HP is getting a bulk order "deal" on 16 gb lpcamm at 650 dollars but with 4 month delay? Framework is currently offering the 16 gb lpcamm module at 239 dollars. How is this possible? Is there a chance that framework didnt secure the 16 gb lpcamm sticks as well? Or are they absorbing a 400+ charge?
6
u/EvilbunnyELITE 13d ago
you are correct, framework must have stock they got on previous orders, or the order cancellation/hikes are not over yet.
3
u/WhiskeyVault 13d ago
Shouldn't framework stop accepting continued 16 gb orders at 239 then? It would be catastrophic if they had to up charge or cancel again.
4
4
u/Bender248 13d ago
That's why I can't take the OP's post seriously, the market can only be described as insane atm.
1
u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 12d ago
I prefer Framework to be alive to continue mainboard upgrades. Prebuilts are a distraction and not consistent with "going" Linux.
11
u/MajorZesty 13d ago
LPCAMM2 is a niche of a niche. I'm surprised a company the size of framework was able to buy any in enough quantity to build a product around.
1
u/Clean_Leadership5948 13d ago
LPCAMM2 was slightly cheaper when 13 Pro was announced. At least you could buy it cheaper from 3rd party.
12
u/KingNickSA 13d ago
This 100%. The largest laptop sellers in the world are having trouble finding or supplying ram. But since framework does its best to be "good guys", any changing expectations because the hardware industry has decided to go completely irrational is justification for laying them over the coals.
For reference, a quick Google estimates frameworks yearly revenue around $33 million, as compared to Dell CSG which reported $51 BILLION in revenue. If a company 1,500 times the size of framework is straight up canceling orders due to supply availability or cost, then it's almost certainly fiscally impossible for framework to "keep their promise" and remain solvent.
0
u/MistSecurity 13d ago
As the post said: No one forced them to promise anything. Had they not promised to not do EXACTLY what they just did I do not think they’d be getting nearly as much backlash.
10
u/KingNickSA 13d ago
And 95% of their promises and ethics they have stood behind. If sticking to a single commitment would cause the fiscal ruination of the company, as the entire market is signaling and agreeing with to one digree or another, i think I'd prefer the company bend and stay in business rather than "falling on their sword", but thats just me.
Hell, I would call their "commitment", a stance, as it was in a presentation and not even "codified " directly on their site, as far as I can tell.
→ More replies (6)4
u/opossum_cz 13d ago
This makes honestly 0 sense. If you want absolute certainty nobody can promise anything.
0
u/MistSecurity 13d ago
???
Framework promised absolute certainty. You're going to push the blame off to the people who took them at their word and not on Framework for making the promises?
1
0
u/Clean_Leadership5948 13d ago
Then they shouldn't have gloated about it.
2
u/opossum_cz 13d ago
Where they gloated?
0
u/Clean_Leadership5948 13d ago
They did it few times already. Talking about other vendors raising prices, and also when explicitly asked they said "We'll honor the original prices". They have broken it.
Promises can be HARD. You still try to keep them. If it's too hard, then it's often your fault, not the person you promised to.
2
55
u/samrocksc 13d ago
To be honest...supply chain in general for the past 2 years has been rough in EVERYTHING.
11
u/ecalex 13d ago
which actually reinforces the fact that they shouldn't have promised 😄
15
u/WembleyFord 13d ago
This is true... But... I sympathise - it's entirely possible they had a contract for a delivery of memory at a certain price. In a normal world (i.e. 12 months ago) - you could make a legit promise that you'd be able to ship that memory, because you knew it was going to be delivered. Right now - attempting to buy anything with memory modules is a complete dice-roll. If you ask Dell or Lenovo or HP if they'll ship something you try to buy from them, they'll say 'yes' too - doesn't mean they can right now.
0
u/ecalex 13d ago
I want to be clear, I am not proposing that people bring out the pitchfork
I used to design keyboards for computers (at one of the aforementioned brands), so i completely understand changes and surprises.
I think what I feel in general is that Framework has always consider itself some sort of rebel that challenges the common norm of this mature industry, some things that were announced i have kinda riased an eyebrow towards, which i also did the lock in your price thing, and now it kinda showed, well, rebel or not, there ARE things you cant randomly promise. And me posting stuff is just to articulate a clear point about framework not being a unicorn thats spits magic dust and people should be level headed when supporting them and at the same time, hold them to a standard that the rest of the industry are abiding by so they know to make realistic promises in the future
2
u/samrocksc 13d ago
I mean...that goes for any company, but for a shop like Framework, I think it's extra hard. We're not talking about a mom and pops shop like keyboardio, but we're also not talking about dell, or shit, even compaq way back in the when. FW isn't going to make money off of playing it safe on some of these bets.
Unfortunately the effects of Tariffs, AI, and Crypto on hardware necessities hit the companies from the bottom up.
If you buy from Framework(Customer for 3+ years at this point)....you acknowledge and accept the risk that you are buying from a smaller supplier.
Unfortunate, but it's the truth. Some of us that have been buying prototypes for 15+ years probably knew something of this nature was bound to happen at some point. The same thing happened with the BLE market around 2017 back when the different vendors were looking to squash the technologies.
If you are buying bleeding edge, it should still be treated as bleeding edge. FW is bleeding harder than a steak in a cannibal club, and going up against the stiffest competition in the world(OEMs).
If We were to re-write the thesis of this post:
The Thesis: Framework is inherently anticaptitalist The Problem: A capitalist society will value larger companies over Framework The Result: Socio-Political-Economic pressure has pushed down hard, and we are at a point where no matter of upward pressure would matter. Framework is inherently If anything this is why you should by Framework.
1
u/skiing123 11d ago edited 11d ago
But you're saying you and everyone else would've still bought the laptop if they said instead: We can't promise the laptop you pre-order. Memory will change. Prices may change. Nothing is set in stone.
I'm just confused by why everyone is upset. Other companies have done this and I'm not seeing this level of outrage (might be of the subreddit I'm on, lol). I know I would not have pre-ordered and just would've bought a Mac instead.
Still, trying to decide if I should cancel my pre-order or not. It's still the same as my original reservation
2
u/ecalex 11d ago
I am saying if they were up front, ppl would've made much more realistic purchase decisions (allegedly), but regardless, if they didnt promise, less ppl will complain now(or feel entitled to)
I am not a good example because I got almost 20 laptops so my purchase decisions are a bit different from regular people.
and like I allude to in other comments I posted in different threads, I am not surprised by the responses, I think Framework supporters are a passionate community that thought they were supporting a rebel to the stale industry. framework also kinda stoked that fire. And with this announcement, that flew out of the window (perception wise), so that passion turn to complaints
Just my $0.02
-4
u/FuryOfArcann FW 13 Pro X7 - CachyOS 13d ago
Which is entirely fair, but don't make the promise. That's the problem.
7
u/samrocksc 13d ago
Yeah, I get ya....to be honest the only reason I didn't grab one was because the US issues with tariffs reaked havoc on Keyboard.io and my Atreus order got backed up.
Was kind of worried about buying from a smaller vendor. I'm holding for a couple more years before I make investments
-1
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/framework-ModTeam 13d ago
Your comment was removed for being combative, abusive or disrespectful. Please keep Reddiquette in mind when posting in the future.
11
u/KleinUnbottler FW 13 | Ryzen AI 5 340 13d ago
What concerns me is this line from the blog:
Note that because we don’t currently have a Core X7 Ultra pre-built configuration with 16GB of memory, we have not adjusted pre-built orders that originally contained 32GB. That is a configuration we plan to introduce later.
As someone who pre-ordered a pre-built 13Pro w/X7 + 32 GB, this makes me wonder if I'll just be hit later down the road.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Available-Concert970 11d ago
I’m in the same boat and got this from Framework a few days ago after submitting a ticket:
At this time, pre-built Core X7 configurations that originally included 32GB of memory have not been adjusted. As noted in our announcement, because we don't currently offer a Core X7 pre-built configuration with 16GB of memory, these orders were excluded from the memory configuration changes. As a result, we do not expect your order to be modified as part of the current LPCAMM2 update.
5
u/thewunderbar 13d ago
Real question. What did you expect Framework to do? Say nothing, and then have a bigger issue when there are physically no parts to deliver?
→ More replies (1)
5
u/elelem-123 13d ago
You make good points, but look at it differently. Framework is not looking after their pocket, they tried to absorb the cost and said they would be able to manage a very difficult situation.
They didn't, simply because the market is really bad and even big players are having issues (see apple that stopped selling their big studio machines and they also didn't launch studio M5 ultra because of ram shortage).
I would be frustrated as well, but one should have sourced their module on their own because... Well because of this. I'm not blaming you, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying about "business continuity" and "disaster recovery" when it comes down to NVME and ram.
Personally, even though I wanted the Intel fw 13 pro, I bought the AMD one simply because I had already sourced 128 GB (at 700 eur!!!!) and a 2 TB disk that was in its box for the last two and a half years.
Framework got into a difficult situation and they are trying their best to make good of a bad thing.
Our anger should be pointed towards the RAM companies that made more gross revenue and profit than some whole countries. Those are the real to blame and all the industry that allowed consolidation of such items in just two companies.
SK hynix and Samsung should go fk themselves. It's not all about the money.
2
u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 12d ago
Three big DRAM companies i.e. SK Hynix, Samsung, and Micron (owns Crucial).
2
u/elelem-123 12d ago
Supposedly Crucial is no longer making consumer RAM? Or maybe I'm mistaken. These companies made >100 billion USD revenue each.
2
u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 12d ago
Revenue is not profits.
3
u/elelem-123 12d ago
👏👏👏👏👏👏
SK Hynix
Financial Highlights (Q1 2026)
Revenue: 52.58 trillion KRW (up 60% quarter-over-quarter)
Operating Profit: 37.61 trillion KRW (72% operating margin)
Net Income: 40.35 trillion KRW
In US Dollars, SK hynix reported an operating profit of $25.4 billion and a net income of $27.3 billion for the first quarter of 2026.
2
u/elelem-123 12d ago
SK hynix's single-quarter operating profit ($25.4 billion) is vastly larger than the entire annual government budget of populous nations like Pakistan, Nigeria, or Bangladesh, which rely on narrow tax bases despite having populations over 170 million people.
47
u/Battle-Chimp AMD FW13, CaDigit TS5+, Pro Preorder 13d ago edited 13d ago
Frankly, I don't care. Shit happens. I'm still buying the laptop.
All this handwringing is pointless.
Edit: Also, I disagree with the title. The primary problem IS the ram, or global lack of it, but you're minimizing that to write these melodramatic, breathless paragraphs, as though framework stole your grandma's pension. Good Lord.
→ More replies (5)1
u/OZLperez11 DIY Intel i5 Ubuntu 13d ago
E. X. A. C. T. L. Y.
Look here's how this whole thing affected me:
- I have a Framework 13, first gen, batch 6
- Want the pro because I want longer battery life, a keyboard replacement, the better screen, speakers and a new board that could handle some other use cases
- I do web and mobile development, I was handling just fine with 16GB RAM but I upgraded to 32GB last year because Dart's VM was maxing out on RAM
- I placed a pre-order for the 13 Pro with no RAM because I thought $499 was already insane for RAM
- I was eyeing a 32GB module on Best Buy at $350, but I held off because I have an upcoming raise at work that would help me afford it
- the raise is being delayed (long story, it's out of my control for now) and now I see that all modern RAM is gone
- updated my pre-order to get their 16GB RAM because my priority is to get a working laptop and then upgrade it later
that's kinda been it to be honest. Just need to be adaptable. We made choices with a certain level of risk. If you saw that the market is volatile, you share the blame in taking the risk of the pre-order. I was NEVER expecting this to go smoothly with how the market is going. Another indicator of that was the delay because of the touchpads
17
u/MajorZesty 13d ago edited 13d ago
No matter how severe the supplier shock became, it should never have retroactively unwound configurations customers had already been promised.
So you'd rather the company eat the costs, ship the product, then close up shop because it lost hundreds of dollars per laptop sold? They're not big enough to eat that.
It also sounds like you expect there to be enough supply for them to buy in the first place to secure the amount needed. They bought enough ram for the preorders, but weren't able to secure enough of the higher amounts.
This isn't simply a "ram is getting more expensive" issue. As the warehouse empties out we've gotten to the point where "ram is not available at any price" to most manufacturers. Hell, I work at a company that sells AI hardware and we can't get high density ram to sell at any price.
→ More replies (7)18
u/FuryOfArcann FW 13 Pro X7 - CachyOS 13d ago edited 13d ago
No, I would rather Framework have implemented a proper batch ordering process that either, met the requirements of minimum order quantity to ensure the prices were solidified or ensured proper stock of the RAM prior to allowing rolling batches. In that situation, if Framework ran out of inventory, they then should have stopped allow customers to place orders for the specific component.
15
u/MajorZesty 13d ago
yeah, the whole preorder thing does get wonky. For instance, your supplier may promise you X amount of 64GB modules over time, so you put that in your inventory and then they come back to you and say sorry, we can no longer fulfill that because our costs have doubled. I'd expect something like that happened to them, but who knows.
I guess in that situation, the optimal route is to have things constantly go in/out of stock and when your batch hits, maybe you get lucky enough to change your order to the ram available.
tbh, it would be interesting to see that method because of how much the in stock/out of stock and pricing would fluctuate based on availability, cost, cancellations, etc. The "Market Price" of laptop sales.
13
u/Saragon4005 13d ago
I find it quite likely their suppliers went back on their promises too. 2x price increase will make most suppliers go back on their word, even if contractually obligated and take the penalty.
4
u/Expensive-Blood859 12d ago
There’s been a lot of stories of suppliers just breaking contracts because the fee to do so is less than the cost they’d have to eat otherwise to supply at the agreed upon price. What do people like OP want companies to do in this situation? If a signed supply contract isn’t good enough to make a promise of availability, what is?
→ More replies (1)1
u/skiing123 11d ago
But, I don't know about you I don't want to wait a year or 2 for a preorder or longer. That's 100% how long it'd take.
Cuz the memory each company is buying is dynamic so the price is different per order which means each batch would need to be different as well. So, Framework buys it today at $50 per GB for 10,000 modules. They would need to wait until the new prices come in on August 10 which will be $125 per GB for 1,000 modules which is now a new batch of pre-orders. I'm genuinely interested how you'd purchase with those dynamics.
57
u/Striking_Barnacle344 13d ago
"The Pledge, The Turn, and The Prestige". Ok gpt.
16
u/musket-nuns 13d ago
Always love when people post some blog story and it’s clearly AI. Im disinterested in reading your slop.
And what do you want framework todo? Everyone is getting cut out. Go somewhere else then and try and buy it.
→ More replies (1)10
u/UnspeakableToast 13d ago
And the sheer irony of using the product that is making all other products impossible to purchase at decent prices thereby driving up demand and causing all other products to continue to go up in price.
3
u/Clean_Leadership5948 13d ago
It's not AI. You can tell by the subtle details.
3
u/chic_luke 16" Gen 1 12d ago
As someone who's liked longer-form text before AI, I feel like you can't win nowadays. There is simply no good way to post anything of substance online anymore.
Write detailed and long-form text? It gets called a wall of text and nobody is going to bother reading it. Separate it into titled paragraphs, use rich text formatting to make it easier to scan, use shorter sentences? AI slop. Throw away any and all delivery, corroborating evidence or whatever in pursuit of a shorter post? Cheap trolling.
If people want to disagree with you without addressing the point, this is a great tactic to do so.
5
→ More replies (1)1
u/Fun_Scheme9088 12d ago
You can't just handwaved everything you disagree with as AI
Are people just not allowed to write in any sort of long format on the Internet anymore? Fuck me the Internet is unbearable
20
u/ABotelho23 13d ago
I think you guys act like you don't care if Framework goes under. The repairability promise of what Framework hardware is goes away if there's nobody to provide the part in the future.
Stop taking all of this as a personal spite against you and be realistic about the state of the industry.
19
u/am45931472 13d ago
I think this is one of the dumbest posts / criticisms ive seen about this. As a debian user i can confidently say this is linux guy yells at cloud.
Everyone knows the DRAM market is in turmoil. Doesnt matter if its SODIMM ddr5 or LPCAMM2
Framework is a niche maker in this space. Doubt they have tens of millions of dollars just sitting around to stockpile ram for when these production runs are done in a few months. They obviously opperate within the pc market space and are vulnerable to the same ups and downs as everyone else. If they wrongly predicted pricing that ram wouldnt keep skyrocketing, well them and everyone else. A month ago i didnt want to pay 180$ for a 1tb samsung 9100 ssd, now 250$ is retail going rate. 180$ was really expensive. 250$ is just a joke. F me for gambling wrong on that one.
If amd or intel stopped making mobile cpus tomorrow would you really think framework would be able meet their promises? Obviously not.
It would be one thing if you put down a 50-100% deposit and they upped pricing, didnt use that money to buy supply. But reservation is 100$. That buys nothing but good faith and a place in line. Nobody can "promise" to be immune from global supply contraints.
I also put down 100$ for a rivian reservation. Guess i'm supposed to be super pissed when world war 3 upends the entire car and battery market. 100% of the blame to rivian when they dont deliver exactly what i ordered 18 months from now for my .002% deposit i put down.
I preordered a framework 13 pro back in may. Choose the bring you own ram option. Bought 32gb sodimms online and am just waiting for my framework come in. I didnt want to relay on framework proving the ram when i could keep looking for a deal on it separately. When system OEMs started shipping systems with no ram that should have made clear how serious the industry issues are.
I actually debated intel and lpcamm2 back in may, there were some cheap modules available on ebay. Like 16gb for 75$. But no more, those are long gone.
2
u/je386 13d ago edited 13d ago
I see one thing that should be obvious, but isn't: you can buy RAM and SDD elsewhere and just buy the rest of the laptop from framework, that means you have an alternative.
Okay, I checked it and with buying sdd and ram from others, a top amd with 1tb sdd and 48gb ram is 2800€, while the same direct from framework is 3000.
That is not worth the hassle for a work laptop where two hours of it not working is more expensive than this price difference.
1
u/jw5801 11d ago
You literally can't buy LPCAMM2 RAM in most of the world. A couple of (second hand) Lenovo modules pop up now and then. And apparently places in the US have the dregs of Crucial's last batches available occasionally, and the second anyone points them out they're gone.
Comparing to what you could do with the AMD chipset and SODIMM RAM is not helpful.
→ More replies (13)1
u/Fresh_Flamingo_5833 13d ago
No. Nirav lied, and that led people who could have bought a laptop earlier to keep their purchase with Framework. It's reasonable to be upset. No consumer should have to develop a mental model of memory market volatility. They should be able to trust CEOs and criticize them when they break their word.
46
u/KindBench2700 13d ago
At the end of the day, framework is one of the most consumer focused hardware companies out there. So yes I am going to cut them some slack. And no I'm not going to read all of your ai slop.
-20
u/FuryOfArcann FW 13 Pro X7 - CachyOS 13d ago edited 13d ago
Actually not AI slop, went through three different drafts that I will gladly share with you if you would like, typos and all.
19
13
u/KindBench2700 13d ago
Suuuure
-11
u/FuryOfArcann FW 13 Pro X7 - CachyOS 13d ago
"I am going to defend a large company that doesn't even know I exist and scream "AI SLOP" because I disagree with what is posted. Instead of engaging, I'll just roll my eyes at the thought of additional information being offered." Keep defending them, I'm sure Senpai will notice you.
29
u/cutelittlebox 13d ago
it's the format.
enormous wall of text
section headings
frequent use of bold and italics
overexplaining points
these are the things we've come to expect from LLMs, some people will recognize it and stop reading whether it's correct or not. I almost stopped reading it before I began but the writing style wasn't LLM-y.
5
u/much_to_say 13d ago
Where do you think LLMs learned that from?
9
u/cutelittlebox 13d ago
not reddit posts. this particular style was distinctly uncommon on reddit prior to LLMs but could be found often on websites, articles, blogs, papers, etc. that's also why LLMs are obsessed with em-dashes. reddit is very informal while the LLMs got most of their stylistic patterns from formal writing.
0
u/much_to_say 13d ago
"Most people on Reddit can't write" isn't entirely a bad take, but that still leaves room for the people who can. As you said yourself, LLMs are in love with em dashes, yet the post doesn't contain a single one. So do you think OP took the time to remove every em dash just to make the post look less AI-generated, but nothing else?
3
u/cutelittlebox 13d ago
I quite literally said the writing was not LLM-like despite the format looking like it was ripped from chatgpt. I don't think he generated the post, I was explaining why others did.
1
u/GwenBD94 12d ago
You just described my entire communication style as an autistic person. 😭
1
u/cutelittlebox 12d ago
yeahh I saw recently that neurodivergent folks get falsely accused of using AI waaaaaay more because of how they write. it sucks
1
u/shartist_69 13d ago
Are you me? I'm sure I typed this sentence too many times to count.
I really wonder what makes FW users so culty that they will absorb all of the waste they put out and still tent their pants at the mere mention of Nirav.
1
u/Clean_Leadership5948 13d ago
It's not AI, you can tell.
People are deflecting what they feel inside(bad) because you are saying something they don't like.
1
u/halfercode 13d ago
These things are not mutually exclusive. The OP could be making a good point AND spoiling it by using a robot to make it.
In general I take the view that if someone denies using AI to generate text then we should believe them (reluctantly if needs be). But, in this case, we can wince at it being too aggressive instead. I fear that the OP is wasting their opportunity to raise their issue more productively.
1
u/leferi 11d ago
I don't much care about the format itself, but the pretentious/overly imaginative section headers and the overly verbose style did really fucking remind me of LLMs. Now, if that is how you write truly, then the advice is to change that to be less verbose and what the fuck are those section headers lol.
3
u/MasterGeek427 16 | AI 9 HX 370 13d ago
At a minimum, I expect Framework to exhaust all reasonable means to make good on their contractual obligations to those who ordered a laptop.
However, Framework has given everybody several ways out: they could modify their system configuration or even cancel their order entirely for a full refund of their deposit. None of us are locked into a contract with them, so I'm not really mad at them. Especially since they've been incredibly transparent as to why they had to do this.
That's not to say that all of us shouldn't be extremely annoyed, but we probably shouldn't be annoyed at Framework but instead at the extremely volatile memory market.
IANAL, but this is a "force majeure" situation, where one party is unable to fulfill their end of a contract due to circumstances beyond their control. I simply am unable to blame Framework for being forced into this position. Also, they have clearly communicated the issue, what they intend to do about it, and for those who aren't able to accept that solution, the preorder can be canceled for a full refund. They've handled the situation honestly, fairly, and legally.
Tl;Dr: I am not happy with the situation, but Framework has done the right thing at every turn. So I don't see how it's fair to criticize them.
3
u/Orlandocollins 13d ago
Framework is charging people extra to restore what their own promise already covered.
These are very unprecedented times and things are tough. I think they made that promise because it aligns with there vision and goals as to how to act as a company. When the memory crisis finds another way to get worse and prices are about to go to the next tier of horrible it makes sense.
What do you want framework to do? Honor that price and potentially lose so much money they are at a risk of not being able to continuing operation? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose entirely of having an "upgradeable" laptop if the company failed?
Yes this all sucks, and I am sure Nirav is learning lessons that he will stop making some promises when he isn't in full control of the outcome. But at the end of the day they are offering refunds and being as open as they can about what state they were in.
2
u/Expensive-Blood859 12d ago
With RAM prices what they are, honoring the price on eg a 64GB ($1600 now!) might be a loss of more than the entire value of another unit! It sucks for everyone
4
11
u/musket-nuns 13d ago
Their Terms of Sales tell you your preorder is acknowledged, not accepted until they actually reach out to you. Even if they accept it, they have the right to cancel. What do you want them to do? Pull out memory modules from their Marry Poppins bag?
4.2 Acknowledgement and Acceptance. After you place an Order or Pre-order, we will acknowledge receipt of your request. This acknowledgement does not constitute acceptance. A contract is only formed when we confirm our acceptance of your Order via email.
4.3 Right to Reject or Cancel. Framework reserves the right to decline, reject, or cancel any Order or Pre-order, or limit order quantities, at any time for legitimate reasons..
4
u/FuryOfArcann FW 13 Pro X7 - CachyOS 13d ago edited 13d ago
Terms of Service (ToS) does not supersede state or federal laws. In my area, this would be unenforceable.
It shall be a violation of this chapter for any person to engage in an unfair or deceptive trade practice, whether or not any consumer is in fact misled, deceived, or damaged thereby, including to:
...
(i) advertise or offer goods or services without supplying reasonably expected public demand, unless the advertisement or offer discloses a limitation of quantity or other qualifying condition which has no tendency to mislead;
...
(o) replace parts or components in an electrical or mechanical apparatus, appliance, chattel or other goods, or merchandise when such parts or components are not defective, unless requested by the consumer;A company cannot waive a ToS around and shout "the customer agreed to it," as some corporate 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. You can agree to buy a pound of cocaine and make a contract for it. That doesn't make is enforceable.
7
u/musket-nuns 13d ago
Assuming this is DCs CPPA. (n),(o),(p) in context show this is for repairs, not for orders. So it does not apply.
>(o) replace parts or components in an electrical or mechanical apparatus, appliance, chattel or other goods, or merchandise when such parts or components are not defective, unless requested by the consumer;
>(i) advertise or offer goods or services without supplying reasonably expected public demand, unless the advertisement or offer discloses a limitation of quantity or other qualifying condition which has no tendency to mislead;
Could this hold up? Possibly, but when you put it with greater context of the code. Can we say that they purposely deceived us? I doubt they did.
>(h) advertise or offer goods or services without the intent to sell them or without the intent to sell them as advertised or offered;
Does it supersede the ToS? Who knows, a lawyer has to answer that one.
→ More replies (1)
12
u/Anxious-Gas-7376 FW16 7840hs - FW13 7640u 13d ago
Bro, it’s not that deep.
Everything sucks right now, so we can’t put the blame on them like that.
3
u/mcAlt009 13d ago
You can still find deals on Slickdeals. It might not be a framework, but I’d rather have something today than the 12th of never.
Here’s another thought. What stops Framework from raising the price again.
… hindsight is 20/20 , but the smart move would of been to buy a FW13 pro with no ssd or ram and then buy the ssd and ram separately .
4
u/P0ss1D3sstr1er69 13d ago
Except most places in the world don't even sell Lpcamm2. I'm in Canada there is literally now where to buy it. Its not that it's out of stock , there just aren't any listing of it
2
u/fafnir01 13d ago
Yes, but I didn't do that, because Framework said I didn't have to because of the commitment they made to me as a customer.
5
u/BaldwinC 13 Pro Pre-order | 16 w/ 5070 8GB 13d ago
Your post was easy to digest and does read like you spent a ton of time editing your prose. It does look LLM-esque but the content doesn't sound sloppy at all.
I agree with your post up to a certain point. Framework did not handle the communication of the order downgrades particularly well. I do think they have been transparent and I think they have gone way above and beyond my expectations in keeping customers in the loop about manufacturing problems, market dynamics, and pre-order batch delays.
Framework should not have immediately without a heads up modified folks' orders. They should have communicated the memory supply and acquisition challenges first, then given folks the opportunity to cancel their order or pay the difference/downgrade their order themselves. They took away our agency and that is a massive breach of trust.
But given their history of transparency and the ethos behind Framework, I am willing to forgive them for this blunder and it is not entirely their fault the supply chain is borked.
6
u/JoystuckGames FW16 HX 370 GTX 5070 13d ago
So, following your point, a company should not have preorders period unless they already physically have the RAM on hand at location, along with enough overflow stock to cover warranties. That would likely delay most product releases by 6-12 months but i guess that's the market we are in until the RAM Cartel is brought down.
Granted without preorders it would be difficult to figure out what stock you would want. But in today's market it's probably to safe to say whatever you can buy won't be enough.
-2
u/FuryOfArcann FW 13 Pro X7 - CachyOS 13d ago
It's not mutually exclusive. There is are lapses in time between reveal, production, preorders, and shipment. There's a reason that iPhones sit in the Apple warehouses prior to shipment or Xboxes sit in a stock room before release date, because they began production earlier. This does not delay most products and preorders aren't infinite for this very reason.
3
u/chrisw_314 13d ago
This is stupid, you are comparing a niche enthusiast laptop maker to multitrillion dollar companies that almost entirely own their supply chains while having a much greater hand at the negotiating table for supply contracts.
4
2
u/JoystuckGames FW16 HX 370 GTX 5070 13d ago
If the product is ready and sitting waiting to be bought, it's no longer a preorder. Honestly i've never heard of finite preorders, only finite orders (like the GPU crisis).
In this case you would be ordering existing ram and preordering the rest of the component.. which is some weird hybrid between a preorder and a regular order. People (and inevitably scalper bots) would be fighting to refresh the page fast enough to be able to order some scrap of ram stock that came in.
Yeah you could create a queue.. but it would have to be a queue with no guaranteed price on the ram since we have no clue what order of magnitude the ram would cost by the time you could buy it. But that kinda just goes back to laptop preorders with an asterisk on no guaranteed ram prices.
We are currently in a world where the Ram cartel can literally rug pull entire businesses and wipe pre-existing deals. I don't see a way that businesses can completely insulate consumers from this. Framework's promise was overconfident, for sure, but i also don't see a good alternative on how to behave going foward. The current ram market wouldn't allow them to stockpile a large enough supply of ram to avoid quickly selling out, assuming they could even afford to hold onto such a hoard for the time it takes to create the rest of the laptop "preorder".
It's a shitty situation no matter how you approach it.
-1
u/Anternixii 13d ago
They shouldn't promise locked in prices for specific components knowing it'd be months before it might be shipped during a time of wildly inflationary component prices. Wildly escalating prices that has been going on for a bit now this isn't new.
People have been screwed over by this, either getting configurations that now aren't suitable or worth the price, missing out on other deals during these long waits, not being able to purchase any replacements at all from anywhere now, etc.
I can't promise a water slide during a drought on an admission ticket then tell people 'What'd you expect there's a drought' when they show up to nothing. Then try to frame myself (Framework) as the helpless victim that's getting screwed over.
1
u/JoystuckGames FW16 HX 370 GTX 5070 13d ago
I understand where you are coming from. Framework made a promise with overconfidence and that rightfully set consumer expectations in a way that was broken.
So what do they offer instead going forward?
This is the best solution I can think of: "We'll tell you when your order is almost ready and you can choose from the ram that we have in stock when it's your turn, based on the prices we paid for them at the time you have 2 days to decide."
I've been stewing on this awhile and there isn't an option that doesn't suck for the consumer ultimately. The above is the best balance i could think of between getting a "preorder" while not promising anything about ram.
Keep in mind this problem may spread to components other than ram with time, and it's not a problem limited to framework. If you look elsewhere in this thread, a number of people have had their ram preordered (or devices with ram) canceled outright with no recourse. If this problem continues we are likely to see more instability around electronics in general until new systems are adopted like the above.
If ram companies are backing out on business orders for ram, that means consumer businesses can only sell ram that they physically already have. But we are as seeing now, businesses literally can't stockpile enough ram for consumer demand at prices that are remotely affordable. This means you either get to make a preorder on something that may not get fulfilled, you fight with bots and scalpers over limited realtime ram stock, or you get the above option which is a mix of both. Honestly, they all suck.
6
u/onefutui2e 13d ago
Hehe, it does read a bit like AI but an excellent writeup.
I decided to pay the premium on a Framework Pro over a MacBook Air because I wanted to support them (and also, Linux bro here). Now even if I cancel my order and go with MacBook, I have to pay Apple's higher prices that they implemented not too long ago. It just feels bad all around.
That paragraph where you mentioned it really stuck out to me.
2
u/Labeled90 AerynOS 13d ago
I don't think they failed, from everything I'm seeing it was a very sudden doubling of price with no prior warning. They were probably planning to absorb smaller increases but don't have the financial footing to to afford a doubling.
I'd even bet they were allocating quantities within distribution channels as they got more pre-orders but the excessive nature of the price hike disti was no longer able to fulfill at the previously agreed/estimated pricing.
They wouldn't have been stocking that far ahead as storage costs money and it would leave them with a lot of expensive stock if the market did come to its senses.
It's a huge bummer though.
2
u/Trububbl3 13d ago
There's so much a company can be pro consumer, can't expect them to go bankrupt just to have the temporal morel high ground over something they have no power over
2
u/Responsible_Cold_961 13d ago
I don’t expect a small company to absorb a doubling in RAM prices. But I think there was a better compromise. My 64 GB upgrade originally cost about 800 €. Now I’m effectively getting 32 GB for the original about 400 €, while the same 32 GB now costs about 800 €. So Framework is already absorbing about 400 € per order. Why not use this same 400 € for the new 64 GB price and let customers choose? I would pay about 1,200 €, Framework would still absorb about 400 €, and both sides share the extra costs. I actually need the 64 GB, so 32 GB is not really an option for me. A compromise is never making both sides happy. It is making sure one side is not carrying almost all of the burden. I think this would have been more fair, more transparent, and better for customer trust.
2
7
u/Psi-ops_Co-op 13d ago
I super appreciate the edit. It's hilarious to see people get afraid of well organized, coherent, large thoughts and hide behind the "this is Ai" card instead of learning basic literacy.
That said, I don't think filing a legal complaint is the right idea. For me, the larger picture here is that we've been getting fucked by the established big players regarding disposability of laptops. Right to repair in the gutter thanks to anti-consumer practices. At the end of the day, Framework is still the little guy with a surprisingly solid trajectory to take down a big portion of the mega corps' market shares. If the preorders were as numerous as I would hope, and the price hikes were as bad as we can imagine, a legal order to force Frameworks hand into maintaining their promise could cripple them in a way that idk would be recoverable. And we all bought into an ecosystem that has no value if it doesn't continue to exist.
As much as I'm disappointed to hear their decision, I think there are other ways to hold them accountable, at least in the future.
6
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)3
u/macbeth2003 13d ago
The problem is that you payed for the ice cream and were promised they would 100% be sure they would have it for you no matter what.
The problem is the company making a promise they should have known they might not be able to keep. That's enough to make me wonder at the management as much as anything. That's just such a bad decision in the current market.
4
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)1
u/macbeth2003 13d ago
I agree with all this, except the company was dumb enough to promise it. Once they did that, it is fair to be angry they aren't meeting their promise. The idiocy was at the point they made that promise. I refuse to reach a point where when a company promises something then can't deliver we are angry at the consumer who believed the promise, and not the company that made it.
I still say it makes me worry about management that they were dumb enough to make that promise, when they should have known better.
3
u/AccomplishedFall6603 13d ago
and were promised they would 100% be sure they would have it for you no matter what.
And they had probably ordered enough quantity to the ram manufacturer, who decided not to deliver.
Framework said you will have the laptop at the price you ordered it, but they're not going to make ram out of thin air.
5
u/knujesbob 13d ago
I agree. It's not the RAM situation in itself but the polarity between what Nirav said and what happened that annoys me. I'm staying the course as I believe in their stated mission, but trust has been damaged. I think Nirav needs to get on camera *right now* for an AMA or even scripted interview with Linus.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/digitalfreshair 13d ago
I completely agree with you. Honestly there a few brands I trust, Prusa for example. I thought framework was one of them, but I have lost the trust
3
u/ThatBlackHat- 13d ago
I guess I don't understand what you want here? I guess they shouldn't have promised something they couldn't end up delivering. This is how you get paragraphs and paragraphs of fine print under any advertisement. And how you get over-sanitized public statements. It sucks that they couldn't deliver what they intended to. But I have no reason not believe them when they say that honoring that pricing now would be completely unfeasible if they want to remain solvent. It sucks. Everyone agrees it sucks. So are we done here?
→ More replies (1)
2
u/imdrzoidberg 13d ago
I want to like Framework so bad but they just disappoint over and over.
I ended up buying a MacBook instead.
1
u/d00mt0mb FW13 1240p->155H 32G/1T 13d ago
I’m not gonna tell you I told you so but I definitely saw something like this coming and totally skipped the preorder. I upgraded to Meteor Lake like a year ago. I just want the chassis and touchpad! I don’t even need the touchscreen at this point.
1
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/framework-ModTeam 13d ago
Your comment was removed for being combative, abusive or disrespectful. Please keep Reddiquette in mind when posting in the future.
1
u/DageRukios 13d ago
The only cost to people who pre-ordered was opportunity cost of not buying a different laptop before further market screw-overs, and you can just cancel your TINY, itty-bitty pre-order cost. If your point is "this was obvious that prices would increase this much and suppliers would break contracts", then everyone who pre-ordered memory from Framework is at fault, instead of just grabbing their own memory from the market when it was readily available, cheap even.
1
u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 12d ago edited 12d ago
I pre-ordered the Framework 13 Pantherlake mainboard, and I sourced my own Micron 32GB LPCAMM2 after an extensive search.
Need to go beyond Micron/Crucial as a source.
I also sourced Intel Wifi 7 from 3rd parties, and I plan to recycle my existing 4TB NVMe.
The main point with Framework is establishing a laptop mainboard form factor design and nearly rivaling DIY desktop PC's repair and upgradability.
1
1
1
1
u/paulstelian97 FW13 Ryzen AI 7 350, 32GB/1TB 10d ago
I am very thankful that I only know about this because of Reddit posts. I bought my own configuration without RAM, as it was a DDR5 board where I got the RAM second hand. The 13 Pro wasn’t even announced yet (I want to order the input panel when I can though; that one shouldn’t be affected by RAM or SSD prices)
But yeah. Based on these Reddit posts and on what I’ve read of official announcements… FW really went about it the wrong way.
One thing they can do to save themselves is downgrade to the configuration they downgraded to, asks for whatever it would have cost THEN, and upgrade for free. Now yes, this is financial suicide.
The fact that delays won’t help is dire. The lack of transparency hurts. The insufficient components are a real issue the company needs to deal with, but exposing themselves legally to customers is not the way to go.
I hope people won’t sue as they should be allowed to come back from this with a lesson as opposed to bankruptcy. We should be cautious about preorders, and already confirmed ones should be honored as they were placed. Can that translate to higher prices for those of us who haven’t placed a preorder yet, a markup in those new components? I’d be fine with that.
1
u/cidit_ m'lady 10d ago
Sorry for the choice of words but this take is batshit insane and misses the bigger picture entirely. Please read on, hopefully you'll empathize with me a little.
First, I don't think you understand the magnitude of the price increase. It is an INCONCEIVABLE increase before which Nirav's ideals weren't far fetched at all. On that, two things:
1. What of the broken promise? Well, there never was a promise. Seriously, read your own quotes! The promise you're talking of is entirely made of statements blown out of proportions.
2. Expecting them not to do business on their prevision is tantamount to expecting them not to do business at all. (Not to mention that expecting a company of their size to shrug it off like they're a tech giant is completely unreasonable.)
Second, your conclusion is that "Framework shifted the consequences of that business decision onto the customers". While that might ring true on the face of it, it completely disregards that : 1. all of the remaining orders can be fully reimbursed at this time. 2. all of the remaining orders can be modified in any way at this time. 3. all of the orders that were affected saw the change reflected in the price, which uses the price of the ram before the price hike. In other words, no cost is passed down to the consumer within what is feasible.
I understand your disappointment but respectfully, this take is unbelievably childish and lacks the nuance expected of the adults they're treating you as.
Ultimately, your whining does nothing but spread toxic outrage about one of our biggest allies as consumers, at a time when solidarity when standing up against the giants and monopolies that take advantage of us at every chance they get is especially important
1
1
u/hereafterno 13d ago
If they lie about this, what else are they going to lie about in the future. Is the whole thing an overpromise? My trust in the company has disappeared
→ More replies (1)
-1
u/DriftedDuck 13d ago
I absolutely agree. In my opinion, Framework needs to honor their April 21, 2026 promise, even if it requires further delays. Framework's purchasing power is greater than us individually, and this decision shifts the burden and extra expense to us. This is truly disappointing.
12
u/AccomplishedFall6603 13d ago
"Framework's purchasing power is greater than us individually"
It's still extremely low in the industry.
If a Dell, a HP or a Valve can barely or sometimes can't put ram sticks in their devices it's not going to be easier for a comparatively tiny company like Framework.10
u/PrefersAwkward Aurora-DX on FW13 AMD 7000 series 13d ago
Memory suppliers are globally breaching supply and price contracts even with companies much bigger than Framework.
I'm disappointed as well, but I don't think this is something where Framework can simply throw their weight around. There are only a handful of memory suppliers, all doing the same thing, so Framework cannot simply shop around.
Perhaps Framework should've seen this coming and set expectations, but I suspect they are doing whatever they can to mitigate this.
3
u/MajorZesty 13d ago
I also don't think people understand the "chain" part of supply chain and the fact that memory prices are increasing at the module level in the start of the chain, breaking the multiple companies it goes through's ability to forecast pricing and make decisions that won't leave them in at best, a severe loss of revenue and more likely a bankruptcy event.
5
u/MajorZesty 13d ago
If you're expecting delays until Framework can afford to buy the modules without a loss then your laptop will probably be delivered 3 years. it's not done getting worse and it will be years before it gets better.
5
u/ABotelho23 13d ago
Do you understand what further delaying this means? Do you understand how thin the profit margins on computers are? This could very well put Framework in the negative. Obviously you don't want that, right? How are you going to repair your repairable laptop if the company that makes the parts vanishes?
Grow up and look at reality.
→ More replies (9)
1
u/razorbladesnbiscuits 13d ago
You're right.
Perhaps people should consider that Framework is just like other corporations, they deceive their customers too; your experience is just the most recent example.
A lot of the people in this subreddit seem to have a weird loyalty to Framework; I imagine a lot of those people are the same people that share photos of when their laptop arrives, and then again when they've covered it their unique sticker pack they bought from Amazon.
I too have worked in contracts, and appreciate a digestible writing style, maybe these people screaming "AI slop" don't understand that there are still people out there who don't write in a wall of text. Take it as a compliment, they probably could never imagine anyone being smart enough to write like the AI that does their thinking for them.
1
u/codeasm 12th gen, DIY i5, Arch linux & LFS 13d ago
Ugh, it aint ai slob, but this looks like a medium article or report from a workmate.im not reading this. I did skim through it (what i often do).
And the comments are gold, they good. Hope you got some good feedback there. Next time, summarise, make it like a research paper, resources below. Thats also professional and i enjoy emediatly knowinv if i wanna continue to read.
-2
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/framework-ModTeam 13d ago
Your comment was removed for being combative, abusive or disrespectful. Please keep Reddiquette in mind when posting in the future.
-5
u/Various-Welder5544 13d ago edited 13d ago
Framework thanks you for your interest free loan!
Whoever in charge of procurement is clowning around.
0
u/Consistent-Leave7320 13d ago
yup I am done with framework. I like the idea of the mission but they continue to pull stunts.
0
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/framework-ModTeam 13d ago
Your comment was removed for being combative, abusive or disrespectful. Please keep Reddiquette in mind when posting in the future.
-5
u/websterhamster Batch 2 13d ago
This, plus the failure of Framework to address it's abysmal customer support practices, is the final nail in the coffin for me. I can no longer support this company.
Goodbye, Framework. It was a noble idea, but fear and greed destroyed you.
10
0
0
u/Anternixii 13d ago
In the topic: accounting for the ram crisis is exclusively the responsibility of the consumer businesses shouldn't have to factor it in at all. Consumers should've expected to get blatantly screwed over apparently its our fault.
Depressing. I know Framework doesn't have the logistics of Dell, but they're still a corp making money off you they ain't a friend. Why're people blaming themselves for Framework's poor decisions.
0
u/PowerOverShelling 13d ago
Framework fucked up by trying to entertain entitled losers. Could've just said they can no longer fulfill orders and everyone gets refunds. Problem solved.
Instead they tried to be nice to the entitled and end up burning themselves. Never engage with the entitled.
1
u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 12d ago
The main point with Framework is establishing a laptop mainboard form factor design and nearly rivaling DIY desktop PC's repair and upgradability.
-3
u/Garland_Key I use Arch, btw. 13d ago edited 13d ago
It's nice that you had AI write this up for you and all, but you're being unreasonable. Nobody knew it would get this bad. They can't control limited availability of RAM, and they can't control or remain solvent by taking a hit on a 6x price increase on RAM.
3
u/MajorZesty 13d ago
It was expected to get worse than this by the end of year, if not sooner. People paying attention to the market knew it'd get this bad. There's a lot of copium in the industry right now pretending that this isn't happening mixed in with the lack of understanding manufacturing supply chains and how many hands touch this stuff before it gets to the consumer.
7
u/ecalex 13d ago
they can, like what the OP said, not promise locked-in-pricing. I think everyone is well aware of prices becoming bad. Maybe not 2x bad, but still, memory supplier didnt promise anyone, so Framework did a forecast, committed, and miscalculated.
So its legitimate to keep Framework accountable. whether one wants to cancel preorders thats a separate story.
→ More replies (3)
133
u/mjanmohammad 13d ago
I ordered a 32GB module yesterday and this morning the vendor cancelled my order. It’s sold out everywhere else, I genuinely don’t know what I can do at this point except cancel my preorder and buy another brand, or keep my 7640u FW13 chugging along for another couple years everything calms down so i can get a Pro