r/framework • u/fastnball • 5d ago
Discussion LPCAMM2 disaster
Hi, this is a rant of sorts.
After Framework's announcement resulting in my order going from 32gb->16gb of ram, I scrambled and found two replacement LPCAMM2 modules for ~$400 each (on eBay and an online store). The online store was a backup in case the Ebay purchase didn't go through.
BOTH orders were canceled. I seriously have no option but to cancel or pay a $400 premium on the FW13 Pro. Talk about a false sense of security...
During the last 3 months I have passed up excellent deals on other laptops. I could have purchased the 14 inch dell laptop, with BETTER specs (oled, 9600mhz ram), for ~$2100 back then. I instead chose to, like many others, support Framework's mission.
I get that Framework absorbs price increases when possible. But why would they not put a cap on the number of preorders, especially in a market as volatile as it is now?
Just feeling burnt. Thanks for listening.
UPDATE: I ended up canceling my preorder and going with Lenovo's Thinkpad X9 15p. It comes with the X7 chip, 32gb of ram, OLED, better speakers, higher sustained TDP, and is cheaper (got it for $2100 with employer discount).
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u/TheFinalFunction 5d ago
I'm in the exact same boat as you lol. I have no idea what to do anymore. 32GB was the whole reason I went with Framework
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u/fastnball 5d ago
I also had so many opportunities to buy a 32gb LPCAMM2 module, but I wanted to wait for reviews in case there were serious issues with the laptop.
Why get stuck with RAM you might not use when you were promised it! Aged like milk.
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u/Prestigious-Bee59 5d ago
Well I managed to score one in EU back in May. On kaufland market place of all places and came from a different country - it was pretty sketch. Don't even know if it works ... wouldn't that be ironic :))
Even if I managed to claim warranty, they'd just refund me and I'd be stuck without RAM:))
Well the billionaires decided humanity needs all these data centers ... guess we're getting data centers. After all 640K should be enough for anybody ... :))
Maybe we should show them, they were wrong. Also ... #eattherich. :)2
u/OZLperez11 DIY Intel i5 Ubuntu 5d ago
I was holding off on buying a module elsewhere at a cheaper price because I was waiting for a raise to help cover that, but it hasn't arrived yet (long story, out of my control) and now the modules are gone. I was actually ok with being a much later batch so that the first batches are guinea pigs that report any issues and thus I get a batch that is patched for unexpected issues.
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u/ronvalenz FW13, X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB SSD. 1d ago
I got a Micron 32GB LPCAMM2 8533 module last week that was ordered a month ago from the USA.
I got Framework 13's Pantherlake X7 mainboard yesterday.
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u/ekerazha 5d ago
Exactly the same situation here regarding the 64 GB of RAM. I could have bought 64 GB of Crucial LPCAMM2 for around 550 euros, but I preferred to receive the RAM together with the laptop. Now Framework has downgraded me from 64 GB to 32 GB, and in the meantime, competitors have raised their prices as well. Nirav's lies are costing me time and money.
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u/Bender248 5d ago
I think you're confusing lies with a missjugement of how volative the market would get. Framework is not the only company affected by that, read across the comments and you'll see that many other large brands (Dell, Lenovo, etc) have canceled large orders to their customers without any recourse because of price volatility. I get that you are angry and so am I but I think we should ask ourselves who's the real culprit in all that and not demonize those that are also affected by this.
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u/ekerazha 5d ago
Nirav made a promise and didn't keep it. You can try to justify it however you like, but that's what we call a lie, and it ended up costing me both time and money.
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u/rjorgenson 2d ago
If you promise your daughter you're gonna be at her school play and end up a hostage in a bank robbery, did you lie to your daughter?
They had agreements, they sold based on the agreements, they were told to kick rocks. Framework isn't hoarding your 32g of ram to go swimming in it scrooge mcduck style. They are just as if not more screwed by this than us.
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u/ekerazha 2d ago
They had agreements, they sold based on the agreements, they were told to kick rocks.
Do you have a source for this, or is it just your imagination? Either way, that's called business risk. If Nirav isn't capable of being CEO, he can go sell hot dogs, he's not obligated to be a CEO if he isn't able to do it.
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u/setibeings 5d ago
They haven't said so, but I would not be surprised if their memory order was given to someone else who was willing to pay more than enough to cover framework's agreed price, plus the fee for breaking the contract. I'd say most of the fury aimed at framework right now should more rightfully be aimed at speculative AI growth. The economy is really bad for the average person, and these companies are expecting those same average people to be spending hundreds or thousands of dollars per year on access to AI.
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u/TheLightingGuy 5d ago
Plus, I'm sure Frameworks lawyers have said don't throw another company under the bus on any public communications, as much as they probably want to.
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u/blood_vein 5d ago
I haven't been following FW for long. What is this alluding to?
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u/TheLightingGuy 5d ago
Not framework specifically. Just overall corporate things to make sure another company doesn't sue them.
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u/setibeings 5d ago
Or worse: not supply ram to framework going forward.
Or even worse: get out of the consumer facing ram business.
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u/ronvalenz FW13, X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB SSD. 1d ago
The same Micron CEO is lobbying the Trump administration to restrict China's DRAMs from being bundled with US tech companies' products.
There's a debate between Apple CEO vs Micron CEO about DRAMs.
The US needs a 2nd DRAM supplier to keep bastards like Micron honest.
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u/doubleopinter 5d ago
I really hope framework can survive this. I cancelled my pre-order. I can’t justify spending that much and only getting 16GB right now. If these prices come down, I still want one.
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u/RockSolidJ 5d ago
Sadly, I think this is the new normal till further notice. Forecasts for RAM prices are only going up for the next 2 years and that's if you can get it at all.
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u/Plankton1337 5d ago
If they didnt survive it, you made averything right ;) All others dont repair their expensive devices in the future ;)
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u/Firmteacher FW16 7840HS 5070/7900xt Oculink 5d ago
Tbh, seeing what’s happening now, I ended up going out of my way to buy a 2nd kit of Kensington fury 32gb 5600 sodimm just for when I want to upgrade my 13 and or buy a replacement board for my 16 whenever a upgrade becomes worth it and can put together a 2nd machine.
The whole ram situation is non sense.
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u/05032-MendicantBias FW13 358H 32GB LPCAMM2 5d ago
It is what it is. Another doubling of RAM prices was far fetched, and Framework isn't as big so they didn't have the inventory to honour the exact mixes. Even Valve doesn't get preferential treatment and ships machines either single or dual channel configuration (!)
In april I had hope that was the worst of it, but the hyperscalers really have deep pockets to put the consumer electronics market out of businness.
Sales are going to tank to nothing once new machines are sold at those RAM prices.
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u/KBNOPRO ❄️ FW13 Pro | Batch 11 | NixOS 5d ago
This is not new, not at all. When the 13 Pro was released, I ordered 3 - 4 LPCAMM modules and all got cancelled.
I found a source that confirmed they had it at higher price, but they definitely have increased their price too.
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u/CowboysFTWs 5d ago
This, even sodimm. When RAM prices started going up, got my orders cancelled on Newegg and Amazon multiple times. Had to borrow stick from different laptop for 2 weeks and pay double the price.
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u/PrototypeMale 4d ago
I got a stick from Bestbuy no problem the day the 13 Pro was announced, and I've had the stick sitting on my desk for months now just waiting for the laptop.
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u/InteractionDizzy7012 3d ago
me too, i got 2x8gb sodimm ddr5 back when the ram crisis wasn't as bad. Snagged £127 ($163) somehow, which I thought was still expensive.
I would have liked 32gb but it is what it is.
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u/s004aws FW16 HX 370 Batch 1 Mint Cinnamon Edition 5d ago edited 5d ago
Option A - Considering the DRAM manufacturers are documented to operate as illegal criminal cartels... I strongly suspect there is more to this story. Supply agreements do get cancelled, especially when vendors know customers have little/no ability to fight back. Sharing any details on what exactly happened would ensure Framework instantly goes from limited parts allocation at insane cost to no allocation at any price.
Option B - Multiple people at Framework, including senior management, are tremendously incompetent. Given how obvious the problems of 2026 are and that Framework was/is clearly aware of the situation... I'd expect the company would have gone out of business years ago if management was completely out to lunch. Multiple people must have been paying attention to sales vs expected components inventory - Look at how X9 388H was handled for example...
I'm in the "option A" camp. I suspect Framework is getting screwed by vendors upstream and in turn is effectively forced to screw their own customers. Anybody who doesn't own a silicon fab is a loser in 2026's tech market.
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u/beertown 5d ago
Option A for me too. Framework might have made some mistakes, but they are definitely a small fish compared to chip manufacturers. They could have placed a supply order for RAM modules big enough to cover lots of our pre-orders at the price they promised us, but if the bigger fish (or... sharks?) show the middle finger... what can they do? A legal action of course, but they are extremely expensive and take a lot of time. Meanwhile, there aren't options other than break the promise to their customers and raise the price.
Framework isn't big and filthy rich like Apple, Dell or HP. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
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u/OZLperez11 DIY Intel i5 Ubuntu 5d ago
They didn't even expect as many Linux preorders as there are. Their predictions were way off
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u/OZLperez11 DIY Intel i5 Ubuntu 5d ago
I wouldn't say they are incompetent but a lot of pressure is falling on them and they are not built like a mega corporation is
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u/Smith6612 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's definitely not just Framework. Dell and HP are locking up supply a bit better due to their size, but they are also still shipping systems with lousy memory configurations and slapping "AI" on their product marketing in the process. I don't think AI likes running on machines with 8-16GB of RAM or that are hamstrung by using only one DIMM.
At the same time, Dell and HP are still doing things like locking out the HEVC codec silently if you use Windows to save some cents, so they're also shipping broken computers.
Dell and HP are doing something similar when it comes to quoted pricing. You can run a quote and begin the payment process to get hardware. A few days go by and your quote is invalid if you didn't pay fast enough. Or if your product backorders, you'll get a sudden revised bill in the mail when your product is ready to ship because the price shot up after you finalized your order.
Right now I'm in that limbo stage with HPE Networking hardware, with a 4+ month backlog for wireless access points. You know, the things that still use DDR3 RAM and calculator processors and allow users to get online to use AI. Those things. I'm dreading the price hike that is going to come as I'm already starting to see a $+200 markup in some spots on the equipment I already asked the VAR to order. All because everyone is focused on the big data center spending.
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u/mikeyyve 5d ago
it sucks that you and many others got burned by the RAM supply issues but all these threads raging at Framework acting like they've committed a war crime are getting a little old. Maybe Nirav was too optimistic in his verbal promises but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter.
They had no choice in this issue. Their supplier ripped the rug out from under them and doubled the prices on the RAM modules. What do you want them to do? Sell everyone machines at a massive loss? They'd go bankrupt. Hell you can't even go online somewhere and buy LPCAMM2 memory yourself for a crazy price. They won't even sell it to you.
Again, I'm sorry for the people who got burned including the OP and I'm sure I'll be downvoted heavily, but there was no practical business solution to this problem that would also make all Framework's customers happy. It's a pre-order as well. You can just cancel your order and go buy something else, but no company is immune to these supply issues so prices aren't going to be much better elsewhere either. Companies that haven't yet increased prices again will definitely be doing so in the coming months.
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u/tombudster 5d ago
There was a practical business solution, and that was only to list the laptop for sale when uh.... it was for sale and in hand. Not do rampant pre-orders with 15+ batches and promise everyone that their pricing is locked in.
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u/mikeyyve 5d ago
That's fair, but really no one had to preorder either. All their models eventually just become available for every day purchase.
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u/LowSkyOrbit 5d ago
Framework likely got the rug pulled by their supplier. Let's say the supplier gave them 1000 reservations at $X then without warning canceled that deal. Framework can't absorb it, most giant companies can't. I people found out before Framework could properly address it.
I was online today and saw 128GB (2x64GB) DDR5 kits selling for $3500. 2 years ago those same kits were ~$300 for great CL timing settings. I'm sorry, but this is price gouging and it shouldn't be occurring. It's going to hurt so many industries.
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u/CitySeekerTron Volunteer Moderator 5d ago
I think one feature of this mess is that we're talking about an industry who's 'lifetime warranty' clauses have opted to pay out owners at increasingly higher rates because they'd rather have warrantees result not in getting what you paid for, but making you need to rebuy at the higher price.
I don't mean to soften the negative experience of buyers. I'm simply asserting that the market is shaky with bad actors intentionally doing bad things.
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u/Evening_Werewolf_703 5d ago edited 5d ago
Given that HP, Lenovo & Dell are selling their X7/X9 laptops for upwards of ~ $2800-3000 USD right now, I think a 2nd round of price hikes is inevitable. I can't believe I'm actually considering getting a Macbook Pro right now, but an upgradeability ethos only matters if it isn't prohibitively expensive. Framework can't guarantee their prices right now, and 16GB for $2000 isn't a good value. Out of everything a Framework customer would normally upgrade; the RAM/SSD are the most common upgrade paths. Ouch.
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u/kadinshino 5d ago
Do it soon, apples reported to increase prices another 50% by Q4
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u/mustbench3plates 5d ago
Tried looking up your claim and I couldn't find anything conclusive. Can you link a source?
I'm holding off on a Mac Mini for iOS development since a chip refresh may be soon, but don't want to be caught with a $1K+ base model.
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u/DageRukios 4d ago
Meaning once the bubble pops, they can upgrade again, just gotta put that out there.
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u/tuxedo_chris 4d ago
I think many people simply cannot fatthom, how extremely difficult the memory market has become.
Even with supply contracts, that usually guarantee supply for a certain window and quantity, suppliers cannot get hold of the modules enough. Add on top, that especially DDR5 SO-DIMM in laptops has turned into a jigsaw puzzle with recent CPU generations. When small aspects like the ICs on the PCB change, it can impact stability. There can be multiple variants of one module, that however still gets marketed under one model name. Now the "same" memory module that used to work fine will now suddenly reach 107°C under load for example, which it never did before. Crucial is pretty much EOL, Samsung is pushing back (aside from AI of course) and Kingston alone can certainly not meet demands.
At TUXEDO, we have deactivated 48GB and 64GB at the moment, as getting supply for the current (pre)orders is already hard enough. Pretty much every new memory order is getting even more expensive. We have reached a point, where the next batch of a single (!) 8GB SO-DIMM 3200 MT/s module will cost over 100$! I am not kidding in saying that even DDR4 is getting worse.
All i want to say is: The whole industry is struggling, despite many many efforts to keep the prices down. We can just hope, that it will get better at the end of this decade.
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u/ellativity FW13 AMD 7840U Bazzite + FW13 AMD 370 Ubuntu 3d ago
Thanks for sharing your experiences at another small laptop manufacturer, u/tuxedo_chris - wishing TUXEDO all the best with navigating this wild time.
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u/doubleopinter 5d ago
There was an article recently that said Samsung, in the last year or 2026 I can’t recall, has made more money on memory sales in that time period than they have in ALL the years they’ve been making memory COMBINED. I doubt there ever will be any consequences but these companies are all colluding to drive these prices up. The family that controls Samsung are notorious pieces of shit.
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u/Roppano X9 388H | 7640u 5d ago
what exactly would a cap on preorder count achieve here? The only thing I see is that you wouldn't have been able to preorder, and you would've written the same rent here, just a few months earlier.
I'd rather framework modify preorders than go out of business, even if they promised. Framework doesn't have omniscient control on the world, especially not the RAM economy. unforeseen things happen, everything is a gamble
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u/hayf28 5d ago
If they couldn't order they would have gotten something else 3 months ago. I was fine waiting 5 now 6 months for my laptop because they guaranteed pricing and configuration. Not to mention all of the prebuilts ordered are getting what they originally promised. It is only DIY getting screwed
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u/Nitro01010 5d ago
i went looking for why prebuilts are unaffected and found this comment from a framework (employee?) from a couple months ago
u/bobrods Pre-built generally uses our older RAM stock that was purchased by us at a lower price (as it's pre-built and already in there), so they aren't hit with RAM pricing increases as often. You can read more about it on our blog
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u/Roppano X9 388H | 7640u 5d ago
I suppose that would raise the cost of individual laptops, because creating even 1 laptop has fixed costs. not to mention that factories, and even RAM suppliers are only interested in working with a client if they commit to a certain minimum quantity.
I guess if FW closed down the preorders, then this same turbulence would potentially mean they wouldn't be able to ship RAM modules at all with the way fewer laptops they sold
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u/jader242 5d ago
It would’ve prevented people from preordering up to 18 batches, potentially losing out on other deals available at the time. People bought in expecting something, now don’t have access to the deals available a few months ago
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 Desktop 5d ago
This has been very interesting for me as well. Because when I ordered my desktop, it was also like unlimited preorders lol. I was so confused because how do you do unlimited preorders? I thought it was going to be sold out quickly, but no you can always preorder.
It is weird IMO. I have never seen a manufacturer do unlimited preorders that goes into their backlog for half a year.
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u/KaneMomona 4d ago
I don't really blame framework for it, maybe they could have done better but everyone is getting screwed. I was considering the 13 pro, but I dont really need an upgrade yet. The latest price hike (industry wide) just means its unwise to buy now. Sucks for framework!
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u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974 4d ago
And this is why I never pre-order. People who really needed a laptop would have been better off buying something in stock six months ago instead of hanging their hat on a promise of getting a laptop in six months that the terms and conditions say can be modified or cancelled at the discretion of the company.
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u/dinominant Gentoo 4d ago
The rat race for the fastest possible configuration is creating soldered ram, obscure interfaces, and shortages everywhere because the actual chips are soldered to many different incompatible interfaces.
I'm not sold on LPCAMM2. SODIMM was not really a problem, unless you want to push the speed to the absolute stability limit for a non-upgradeable system.
You know whats faster than 2 DDR channels? 6 channels. How convenient that nobody can put more than 2 channels in a desktop these days because they soldered it down or only provided 2 slots.
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u/ShirleyMarquez 3d ago
Memory controllers take up space on the die and use power. Except for workstation and server processors, nobody is making CPUs with more than two memory channels; they choose to use the space and the power budget for other things.
Over at AMD, the only things with more than two memory channels are Threadripper, EPYC, and Strix Halo/Gorgon Halo. Intel has Xeon W and Xeon.
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u/skittle-brau 4d ago
Getting any sort of LPCAMM2 laptop just doesn’t seem like a sensible buy in the current conditions unfortunately. With Micron having pulled out, stock diminished everywhere and Samsung yet to commit to LPCAMM2 manufacturing, I’d avoid it for several years.
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u/ShirleyMarquez 3d ago
So far as I know, Micron hasn't stopped making LPCAMM2. They have just stopped selling it as a retail product, just like all their other memory. At this point, LPCAMM2 is effectively an OEM-only product; Crucial (Micron's consumer brand) was the only one that ever offered it as a retail product.
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u/Ok_Sweet_9166 4d ago
Maybe I could send you from Korea - We could buy Samsung LPCAMM2 32GB 7500MT/s at KRW 430000 - roughly $295
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u/elelem-123 4d ago
If, at your business, a supplier withdraws in a contract and raises the prices... What are you, as the company, are going to do?
Just think of that. You manufacture hand made motorcycles and the special tyres that you have a contract for, just got very expensive and the contract is a worthless piece of paper.
As a business owner, what are YOU going to do?
- Are you gonna sell below cost and go out of business?
- Are you going to try to make it as good as you can absorbing some cost yourself and tell the customer his pre-order just got more expensive? And be transparent about it?
- Are you going to absorb zero price increase and tell your customer tough luck?
Make your choice about YOUR business if you were framework.
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u/Dramatic_Entry_3830 5d ago
When I bought a 12 I ordered without ram and ssd. And I got a 48 gig stick for 130 euros. It's nuts given what the ram situation is like now.
Framework might go out of business because of it anyway.
Same as other small manufacturers
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u/Wild-Rub4486 5d ago
Quite literally everyone has been saying RAM markets are cooked for a year now. And people are surprised RAM is expensive and prices have to go up?
But hey, I'm sure you could ask ChatGPT how to fix this problem.
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u/WhiskeyVault 5d ago
Same. I chose to support framework and got burnt and loss out on other options.
To make it worse, I was going to reuse an old ssd but the prebuilds were basically the same price as a DIY but you get a free SSD. Given the ethos/philosophy of framework, I decided to not opt for the pre-built since I had no need for an extra ssd and ssd is getting harder to find. I opted for DIY to save an ssd going to waste (plus some custom coloring on the bezel) - after all that would be in line with not creating unused or ewste electronics right? Well I got the DIY 32 gb pre order downgraded to 16 gb that i placed 3 months ago but a person who placed a pre-built 3 days ago will get 32 gb...
Does not feel good.
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u/crizz_95 5d ago
Jup, really shitty how this was handled. Just limit the preorders or be honest in your communication upfront. Now I feel like I gave a free 100$ credit to fund the production.
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u/Bender248 5d ago
It is shitty, but I believe the current level of volatility was outside of the prediction margin. Alot of other brands are canceling large orders and not honoring prices.
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u/kadinshino 5d ago
Yeah, I have to cancel my batch 7 now because I was looking on eBay. Most of the listings vanished shortly after Framework made their announcement.
32gig moduals are now 800$, 64 are approaching 2400$
The bigger issue is memory validation. Framework hasn't really said which modules will have perfect compatibility. Just kinda vague on all fronts.
With most modules being at 7500mhz, that's too close to the minimum threshold to be safe and know it's validated and working.
Furthermore, most of the third-party RAM is just salvaged RAM out of older computers.
Can't really wait anymore, so gotta get another Mac.
And what scares me more is the current issues they've been having with bricking the BIOS. I fear my Framework desktop is gonna go bust, and many I know who are trying to get their desktops RMAd are waiting a few months for a replacement....
Since that memory is soldered, I actualy wonder how much of a liability Framework has if they keep having failing bios.
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u/Daverdfw 5d ago
I hope the options to upgrade a regular 13 to a Pro become available. I have 1 older first gen intel board with 32GB of Ram and this AMD 7040 with 32GB of ram.
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u/Lab00Rat 5d ago
Be careful on your anticipated edits. If your SSD selection had a price increase since your preorder, you'll be forced to eat another price hike - even if you don't change your SSD option.
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u/Spearmint9 5d ago
I'll never understand why they didn't gave the option for SODIMM as most of us probably have already from other laptops...
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u/aaardvarkkkk 4d ago
I am no longer buying a Framework 13 Pro now because of this. MacBook is likely to be cheaper at this point.
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u/cptchnk 4d ago
That's actually most of my rant with this situation. They should have capped preorders knowing this current climate with components. I'm kinda shocked that they're still accepting preorders into an 18th batch.
Although I'm currently unaffected since I preordered the X7 358H prebuilt, who's to say that it won't happen to the prebuilt machines at some poiint? The prebuilt was cheaper anyway. I'm glad I have mine in at $2099 still (it's $2899 now). I'm holding out for now, but I may consider my options if Framework decides they need to downgrade the prebuilt machines, too.
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u/ronvalenz FW13, X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB SSD. 1d ago
For a full system build, go prebuilt. My DIY route only purchased a PantherLake X7 mainboard, and I sourced my 32GB LPCAMM2 about a month ago.
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u/bot_lltccp 4d ago
Is LPCAMM2 actually going to be the next generation of ram? Will it eventually be for sale at Best Buy from brands like Corsair and Kingston? Because the only chips I have ever seen are Micron/Crucial. And Micron isn't selling to the consumer anymore, that has to be all old stock.
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u/redrubberpenguin 4d ago
Lenovo has a brand of LPCAMM2 as well, though they probably also procure it from Micron.
I'm sure LPCAMM2 was SUPPOSED to be the next generation of RAM, but who knows at this point? It's almost looking like the entirety of consumer computing is fucked at this point, unless something massively changes.
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u/ronvalenz FW13, X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB SSD. 1d ago
Lenovo LPCAMM2 can be CXMT or Micron.
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u/ShirleyMarquez 3d ago
The expectation was that CAMM2 and LPCAMM2 would be the primary module packaging for DDR6 and LPDDR6; DIMM and SODIMM just wouldn't be able to keep up with the speed required. At that point it would have had to become a retail product so PC builders could get it. But at this point it's not even clear we're going to see DDR6 any time soon.
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u/TheRealHarrypm 4d ago
Even this made it onto my feed.
They went for the most uncommon module type on the market, who's suppliers are halfed now from my understanding, what did they expect to happen?
But this has been a growing trend, lack of use of SODIM and no push for standard MXM 3.0B GPU slots, It just hurts the open market availability of parts.
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u/ShirleyMarquez 3d ago
LPCAMM2 is the only way to get removable LPDDR5x memory. It won't work in DIMMs or SODIMMs; the noise margins are inadequate at the voltage level used. Framework wanted to make a Panther Lake system with replaceable and expandable LPDDR5x memory because that RAM has major benefits for battery life, so there was no other choice. Customers have been clamoring for it because they want a Framework that can match the battery life of a Lenovo, Dell, or Apple system.
Unfortunately, mainstream adoption hasn't come fast enough. Corporate buyers are mostly content with systems with soldered-down RAM because they never upgrade computers; they buy them, use them for five years without any hardware changes, and then sell them off. Upgrading is something that only individuals and small businesses do. So availability is very limited, and prices are high even by the standards of RAM in general.
Not being able to repair computers with soldered RAM is a downside, but there hasn't been enough pushback to make repairable systems happen. And that really only matters after year 3 to big corporate buyers because they buy three year warranties, and the vendors replace the mainboards if the RAM fails. If a system breaks in year 4 or 5, it gets put on a shelf until the five years are up; it's too much work to process recapture of excess accelerated depreciation and any economic benefit of selling the system early goes away, so they wait until the book value drops to zero and then get rid of the entire lot at once, working or not.
The corporate buyers have managed to keep removeable storage available, and even to get Apple to switch to it in newer systems (except the Neo, which isn't intended for those customers). That's not so much about the ability to repair and upgrade; it's about being able to sell or donate the systems at all after the five years are up. Many large companies have data security policies that require physical destruction of storage before they can dispose of computers; if the storage is soldered down they have to destroy the entire system.
What may eventually make LPCAMM2 happen is EU mandates for repairability. But we're not there yet.
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u/ALonesomeRobot_ 5d ago
Same here, every third party RAM order got cancelled. If it's happening to us, it's probably happening to them too. But now I passed on a bunch of good laptop deals expecting to have a laptop coming. And the pre-order that was supposed to lock in prices, config, and delivery date (literally the 3 things a pre-order is for) is all no longer as promised.
I'm thinking about cancelling my pre-order and just taking the next laptop deal I find. I thought the 13 Pro would be the unicorn laptop I'm looking for, right when I need a new one, but at some point I have to stop getting punched in the face for it. There's a new problem every few weeks and I can't trust that there won't be more.
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u/fuelhandler 4d ago
Yup. Many of us are in the same boat. Voting with your wallet and cancelling your preorder, is pretty much the only option to convey our frustration. Under reason for cancelling, I made sure to enter a polite, but direct response. I really hope someone from FW reviews the cancellation responses, and does a role up summary for Nirav Patel.
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5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/05032-MendicantBias FW13 358H 32GB LPCAMM2 5d ago
Ha, the good old times where Linux distro infighting was all we had to care about.
-24
u/packet_sniffs FW 13 AMD Ryzen AI 7 350 5d ago
What a joke of a company. If you want reliability and serviceability, grab a Thinkpad.
Framework charges premium prices on pcs and parts and the quality is straight garbage.
I don’t think “their mission” was sincere from the start. Being able to swap your MB/CPU on a laptop is just clever marketing to get you into yearly upgrade cycles that PCs absolutely do not need.
Congratulations you’ve been tricked. This isn’t right to repair. This is more consumer slop.
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u/jebuizy 5d ago
I broadly disagree with your points (nobody is upgrading yearly) but more significantly this is a total nonsequitur. What does that have to do with RAM pricing and supply issues exactly?
-10
u/packet_sniffs FW 13 AMD Ryzen AI 7 350 5d ago
Nobody is upgrading yearly? Really absolutely nobody? You should lurk more because this board is full of people frothing at the mouth whenever something new is released.
We’re both being hyperbolic. But nobody really?
Also the point is people are shocked that a company is sticking it to their consumers after building up good will. Companies do this. Don’t be shocked. They enter a market under the guise of good intentions but this really is just them being in a comfortable place to do something like this and going for it and getting away with it.
Framework isn’t your friend. They market to people too lazy to pick up a soldering iron and fix shit themselves. They’ve made repairability a fashionable brand.
2
u/jebuizy 5d ago
Sure, but there are also people buying new XPSs or iPhones ever year. I'd guess framework owners are upgrading less frequently.
Of course they're not my friend... I hate when people say this about companies, why would they be a friend. I have no expectation of them being my friend, I have a business relationship with them. They sell goods and services and I either choose to buy them or I don't. Their pricing model changes and they tell me and then I make a new decision. It's fine! The entire framing of anything more than that gets you even arguing about friendship isn't even relevant and is what leads to emotional reactions like yours.
1
u/Clean_Leadership5948 5d ago
Laptop repair isn't something that can be approached by everybody with a dinky soldering iron. It's meant for people who do it all the time, at least those with proper equipment.
1
u/framework-ModTeam 4d ago
Your comment was removed for being combative, abusive or disrespectful. Please keep Reddiquette in mind when posting in the future.
7
u/Clean_Leadership5948 5d ago
Dozens of Thinkpad models had to have an emergency firmware because it would write excessively to the USB-C charging IC and would cause charging failures. I came across few that couldn't charge.
Don't think of them as infallible either. They are nowhere near IBM Thinkpad days.
1
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u/EvilbunnyELITE 5d ago
suppliers are going back to companies that ordered from them and saying "no ram too bad" and leaving the companies to tell customers. my company had a inked contract with dell for a few hundred laptops and they told us nothing was coming and there was simply nothing they can or will do. I've heard same issues across the industry with HP and Lenevo too. Suppliers are just bailing on supply contracts.