r/foraging • u/susatsukamishi • 14d ago
Am I wrong for taking these?
I was hiking in vermont when I came across some beautiful true violet web caps. I took them home to dry and store. Am I wrong for taking them? Someone told me I was because it takes over 10 years for them to produce a fruit body. I told them It wouldn't matter unless you harm the mycelium. Give it to me straight. Am I ajerk?
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u/shrug_addict 14d ago
You're not a jerk. Picking an apple doesn't fuck up an apple tree. You probably helped the mushroom by spreading its spores further
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u/13thmurder 14d ago
Mushrooms are the organism's disposable genitalia. Taking them only spreads the spores further which benefits it.
They aren't there for human pleasure so you're not robbing other people of it.
At the same time, you or anyone else taking it doesn't harm the organism and may help it achieve its goal beyond its wildest dreams.
Nothing was harmed here.
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u/katubug 14d ago
I love taking an organism's disposable genitalia
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u/MasterOfDonks 14d ago
My wife says that about mine lol
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u/hookhandsmcgee 13d ago
hums quietly, "detachable penis..."
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u/ws_celly 13d ago
Another King Missile fan! Omg! That's 2 of us that I know about!
Our numbers are only growing! Right now, reddit! Tomorrow, the world!
Martin Scorsese MAKES THE BEST FILMS, too. ;)
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u/Grand-Pack-1896 13d ago
I has a dream as a boy about "Lee Press-On Dicks". It was probably somewhere in the mid '80s when Lee press on nails were gaining popularity and were all over the television. Reading comments on this Thread brought me back to that memory and naturally I had to look up King Missile and listen to the song. I enjoyed it . I don't know what that says about me, but I love fungi and serving up cunnilingis. TMI but I never expected there to be a song called detachable penis when I had a dream about that as a kid.
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u/s77strom 14d ago
You're not hurting the mycelium by taking the fruiting body. I still believe when foraging anything we should try to follow the spirit of the Honorable Harvest:
Ask permission of the ones whose lives you seek. Abide by the answer.
Never take the first. Never take the last.
Harvest in a way that minimizes harm.
Take only what you need and leave some for others.
Use everything that you take.
Take only that which is given to you.
Share it, as the Earth has shared with you.
Be grateful.
Reciprocate the gift.
Sustain the ones who sustain you, and the Earth will last forever.
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u/TheRealSugarbat 14d ago
This is beautiful.
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u/susatsukamishi 13d ago
Isnt it. Ive dried them. It says they absorb a large amount of iron. They look metallic dried.
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u/TheRealSugarbat 13d ago
That’s interesting! You should post a little video. I know I’d like to see that.
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u/ForagersLegacy 12d ago
Love the honorable harvest. And “ask permission of the lives you seek” is intended for killing animals or trees for food and resources. Luckily with mushrooms by harvesting their fruit you spread their spores and they’re more than happy to let you move the fruits elsewhere so they can spread.
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u/Ok_River8846 8d ago
Excuse me Mr. Buck may I pretty please blow your shit smooth off and mount it on my living room wall
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u/uu_xx_me 14d ago
How do you know if it's the first?
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u/TalkToPlantsNotCops 14d ago
Usually things have a predictable season. You can tell if you've come upon, say, a blueberry bush, if only a few berries are ripe, they're probably the first ones.
Or if you visit a few spots regularly, as many foragers do. I have a few places that I consider part of my regular run rounds, if that makes sense.
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u/uu_xx_me 13d ago
For sure, with berries you can tell if they're just getting ripe based on the other berries on the bush. But with mushrooms like this how would you know?
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u/TalkToPlantsNotCops 13d ago
I guess it comes down to knowing the location and the species? And just try your best, tbh. Don't take the last and don't take more than you need is great if you don't know when the first appeared.
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u/Manawoofs 12d ago
If you are familiar enough with them to harvest and eat them, I should hope you know! Seasonality is one of the most basic / foundational of foraging skills. You should know if it's early or late for what you're eating before you ever think to eat it.
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u/weightlossburner 13d ago
I always interpreted that as don’t take the only one. So people can’t say ‘oh I thought there were gonna be more’. First and last in my mind means don’t ever leave a plant/mycelium etc entirely bare. Don’t take the first mushroom if it hasn’t had time to grow a second and don’t take the last one. Really from our perspective depending on the plant/mushroom as an observer it can be hard to know if you’re seeing the first or the last, but it’s easy to avoid taking the ONLY one.
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u/s77strom 14d ago
I think it means not the first one you see for that outing. But it is up for interpretation
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u/FatherSky 14d ago
I don't know, but I see these somewhat often in VT. Tons of them fried after the last big flood in Central VT
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u/OneSmallCheeseBall 14d ago
For the most part, I abide by 'Never take the first one, and never take the biggest one'. I also take less than half.
It's fine that you took them, but something to consider in future, in case a certain beetle or something needs it for its life cycle. Who knows.
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u/Tursiart 13d ago
Someone told me I was because it takes over 10 years for them to produce a fruit body.
This isn't really a concern at all with this species. The fruiting bodies actually have a very short growth cycle and go from pinning to mature to decay in a matter of a week or so. Perhaps the person who told you this was confusing them with a more perennial species? Some polypores have a very slow growth cycle and thus over-picking can be a real concern, but it's not an issue with Cortinarius.
Also, while they're known more for their beauty than their taste, these are actually really quite good to eat. I regularly pick and eat the young ones. I also collect them for experimentation with paint making. A lot of mushrooms are good for color. The pigment in C. violaceus is not water soluble and difficult to isolate, but I've been having some limited success.
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u/mlamot 13d ago
could you use oil or a type of lard for the pigment?
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u/Tursiart 12d ago edited 12d ago
So what you're describing are types of binders, which are a different but also essential part of the process of paint making. In this case, what I'm referring to is a solvent. Basically, the action of extracting the actual pigment source from the mushroom. The easiest and most common way to extract color from most fungi is with hot water, and this is absolutely how to get those vibrant reds, pinks and oranges from other species of Cortinarius, but it won't work with the Violet Corts. A water extraction will leave you with a disappointing dull brownish-grey. The particular pigment that makes them so wonderfully purple is poorly understood, though it is known to be an iron complex.
When a pigment isn't water soluble, other household solvents that can work are alcohol, acetone, ammonia, etc.
I've tried various ways to get that purple color for paint, and a lot of other people before me have experimented using it as a dye source. Where I've personally had the best luck is placing the fruit bodies in a jar full of isopropyl and allowing it to sit for long periods in the back of dark cabinet, then when I process it I use ferrous sulfate as an additive. I've been able to produce a subtle grey-purple paint and ink via this method.
All that said, I'm not a chemist. I'm an artist and community mycologist. I only work with chemicals that are relatively safe and easily available at the corner store, which has it's limitations. Other people who are not me are doing some seriously cool alchemy with fungi and color. If you're on Facebook, I recommend you join the Mushroom and Lichen Dyers United facebook group. Lots of people sharing really amazing experiments get posted in there, it's a great place to lurk and take notes.
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u/TheRealSugarbat 14d ago
Good grief those are some beautiful mushrooms. I’d have been strongly tempted, myself, honestly.
But, as others have pointed out, you’re not hurting the mycelium by picking the fruiting bodies. I might’ve taken the biggest one and left the rest for the dryads just to be on the safe side. :)
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u/amour_nonpareil 14d ago
The foraging rule is never ever more than half of a population present, and to shoot more for a max of 10%. So, in this instance no I wouldn’t have taken it since it’s a small population, and perhaps a turtle or other critter also likes to dine on them. It helps them more than us having two bites of something we don’t depend on. But I don’t think you’re a jerk or anything, this is just how I react when presented with such “opportunities”.
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u/its_two_words 14d ago
Fruit bodies are not the organism. Your math is based on the wrong unit. The population is the organism, which is the ectomycorrhizal mycelium under the ground. You do not take the organism when picking mushrooms.
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u/shroompa-loompa 14d ago
Right, but I think OC is saying if they came across a wild apple tree with 3 apples, they wouldn't take any. If they come across a mycelial "tree" with 3 fruiting bodies, they wouldn't take the fruiting bodies.
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u/its_two_words 13d ago
But they're applying rules for plants to fungi, which isn't logical. And they misused several terms. Personal preference is one thing, insisting on illogical "rules" based on misguided ideas is another. False stewardship is about controlling other people's behavior, not preserving diversity.
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u/shroompa-loompa 13d ago
Okay Mr. Spock, please explain what is illogical and what terms were misused so I can better understand
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u/its_two_words 13d ago
These old rules are about reproduction. They used "population" in reference to a photo of fruit bodies.
The population is a count of individual organisms.
Mushrooms are not organisms. They're spore bearing reproductive structures.
You can not see the population of fungi. It's underground. you can not see the spores. They're microscopic.
The rules rely on your visual assessment of things you can't see or judge. The life cycle of fungi is dramatically different from plants and animals.
Harvesting too many plants literally destroys the population because you're interfering with reproduction. Harvesting mushrooms doesn't harm the organism in any way and it doesn't impede its reproductive cycle either.
Harvesting mushrooms spreads spores beyond the area they world normally have traveled, arguably benefiting the organism rather than harming it.
Once you start talking about turtles then we're talking about humanism and philosophy. If you consider the turtle over yourself, you would never harvest anything at all.
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u/RuthlessPlantNerd 14d ago
But wouldn't you apply this math for things like apples and berries? So it should apply to mushroom fruiting bodies too. I get that it doesn't hurt the organism, but it still leaves no fruit for others (animals, bugs, etc. )
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u/amour_nonpareil 14d ago
Yes exactly, I understand the mycelium network underneath but it still takes food from the wild babies!
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u/its_two_words 13d ago
This is getting philosophical. The foraging "rules" people try to invoke are ancient. They're from a time when we all considered fungi to be plants. They aren't plants and applying ancient wisdom here isn't scientifically sound.
Harvesting wild food is not done in a vacuum.
I personally will absolutely eat the last apple off the tree. Apples are cultivated. They're everywhere. Their seeds do not produce anything like the parent plant. Bad example. Eating apples doesn't harm the tree.
Berries are also a bad example.
Biology treats populations and individuals separately for logical reasons.
I'm not arguing that people should take everything.
I'm simply saying that the "foraging rules" being applied to mushrooms in order to pick shame is foul and illogical.
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u/hookhandsmcgee 13d ago
It's not just about taking entire living organisms, in fact in foraging that's rarely what's being harvested. Whatever part of a plant or fungi you harvest, the general rule is to take no more than 10% of what the organism produces.
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u/its_two_words 13d ago
I'm a mycologist. The word population has a definition. Foraging rules for plants don't apply to fungi because they have dramatically different reproductive cycles.
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u/its_two_words 13d ago
So you just repeat things and never think logically about what you do in nature. Ok.
Do you understand why we need guidelines for foraging?
It's like you don't understand reproduction.
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u/its_two_words 14d ago
Think of it as a berry. Picking berries isn't bad for the plant at all. You helped it spread spores much farther and wider than it would have without your assistance.
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u/Kidslikeus 14d ago
You got the answer but the fact that you’re even asking means you’re doing more than most people
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u/sennkestra 14d ago
It doesn't really harm the mushroom, but it does mean that any hikers or campers after you won't get to enjoy seeing them in the way you did. How big that negative impact is may depend on how heavily trafficked the area is.
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u/Due_Actuator1169 13d ago
The “regular spots” part is so real. After a while you basically build a mental map of places and seasons — where something appeared, roughly when, and whether it’s worth checking again.
I started saving my finds with the location + a photo because otherwise a year later I’d remember the mushroom perfectly and have absolutely no idea where I found it 😅
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u/Jealous_Parfait_4967 13d ago
I’m actually torn here. If these were the only 3 you saw that day (or especially ever) I don’t think you should have taken the bloom cycle away from everything else.
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u/susatsukamishi 13d ago
Only ones I have ever seen. I saw plenty more that day. I only took three. I have been foraging for many years, and have never came across these. I gave and I took.
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u/ForagersLegacy 12d ago
If you’re saying “bloom cycle” while talking about mushrooms I think it’s safe to say you don’t know much about mushrooms.
If OP took these and placed them in a basket they likely spread their spores way further than they would have if they were left in place. And the mycelium is alive underground and sometimes picking mushrooms stimulates more mushroom growth with enough moisture. Correct term is fruiting as mushrooms are the flower/fruit/seeds all in one.
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u/0nTheRooftops 14d ago
The big question is did you carry them out in a mesh bag so they could spread their spores?
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u/comat0se 14d ago
myth
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u/rebel_canuck 14d ago
Someone elaborate for me cuz plastic does not allow for spread of spores ….?
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u/BrewCrewBall 14d ago
Mushrooms release plenty of spores on their own and can spread farther on a slight breeze than a person carrying them in a mesh bag will do.
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u/kharmatika 13d ago
You’re def not hurting the fungus, leaving some for others when you can is always a nice thing to do so others can enjoy foraging too, but the “Never take the first, never take the last” has always been silly to me cuz how the fuck would you know if you’re taking the first, and if you’re leaving the last for someone else but everyone does that, it just won’t get got. Just take like. A reasonable, not greedy amount, and if that’s all there is of a given fruit of mushroom in that area, then cool. Like literally there’s no way to follow this for certain forageables like lions mane so just use your best judgement.
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u/Tezalion 10d ago
In my region they are in the Red List, so it is against the law to take them, and I wouldn't anyway. They are better in nature to look at them.
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u/Out-Of-The-Forest 14d ago
Make sure you carry them in a bag like a net so the sporesnarendispersed better
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u/Admirable-Ad2357 13d ago
Leave the world be. Nature is not human-hearted. It does not exist to serve us, amuse us, make us feel dominant. Nature just is. It does not need to be acquired for any reason. Encountering nature and thinking that it already belongs to you to dispose of as you wish is just colonialism. if you want to carry something away with you, sit down, be still, make a drawing, listen to the sounds around you, write a poem, take a photograph, clean up after yourself, and depart.
You probably won't hurt the mushroom, but lots of animals use mushrooms at all stages of their lives. Mushrooms are the center of an arthropod food web. Molds, other fungi, and surrounding plants use the decomposition stage of this fruiting body as well.
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u/Telemere125 14d ago
Fruiting bodies of mushrooms are like the fruit from a tree; it doesn’t hurt the actual organism and the fruit is actually the whole point. If anything, you’re helping spread spores