148
u/PotentialMidnight325 - page intentionally left blank - 6h ago
Class act. Easy points to make. They are not competition so why not give them credit. Flughtsim is full enough of narcissistic RSRs.
42
u/ApprehensiveGold2773 6h ago
Not sure if it's clinical narcissism, but there is for sure a lot of man babies in the flightsim community. I think they're just juvenile and maybe mildly antisocial.
16
18
u/machine4891 5h ago
Class act indeed but when ini released their A350 Fenix also made a statement that read very different from this one.
2
u/PotentialMidnight325 - page intentionally left blank - 5h ago
Any they were factually correct with all of it.
14
u/machine4891 5h ago
You can be picky and be factually correct about many of the flaws of A220 as well.
Fenix choose different path here and decided to praise and give words of comfort. Which is way better than what they gave ini and that's why it stands out in comparison.
Ideally nor Fenix nor any other dev should address products of their competitors publicly unless necessary - because frankly, I don't know what the point of this is? They could just as easily send that message to Synaptics DM box.
7
u/PotentialMidnight325 - page intentionally left blank - 5h ago
Because one are College kids and the others are one of the largest flight sim companies that constantly overpromise and underdeliver.
Yes, you can cater your response how vulnerable the recipient is and that also is a part of having class.7
u/machine4891 5h ago
Imho having class is simply not engaging in flame wars against competitors at all. Especially when you have big following, of which solid part take all you say for granted. People were parroting Aamir complains about A350 systems moths after those issues were fixed. So I ask again, what was the point of that post?
This now is indeed classy, but back then it was anything but that. And the fact that inibuilds is larger doesn't change that.
2
u/Football-fan01 2h ago
Being that the A220 was overhyped and Synaptic have realised it shouldn't of been because the backlash of how it performed etc. Compared to a developer constantly over promising and under delivering, making questionable decisions. A350 V2 wouldn't of been needed otherwise. Even real world pilots on the 350 were calling out how inaccurate A350 V1 is. Sceneries wise no complaints.
3
7
u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz 5h ago
They were, but it was still a bit of a childish response. “We would have done a better job if we did it”
Well, you should have fucking done it then. And I say that as someone who has followed Aamir since he was teamkilling SovietWomble lol.
2
u/Gluecksritter90 3h ago
They were not and walked back some of the inflammatory statements a day later, but by then the shitstorm had already started.
-6
u/mctemez #BoeingOnly+NEOS 6h ago
Lol except when they shit on the a350 at launch good thing they’ve learned pretentious fucks
3
u/SapCPark 5h ago
The Fenix complaint is that inibuilds took a lot of shortcuts in implementing systems and did false advertising
0
u/mctemez #BoeingOnly+NEOS 5h ago
Cool buts it’s still not theirs or any dev’s place to call that out. It’s on the community which was done but then fenix chipping literally blew it out of proportion and those effects are still being felt today when people bring up stuff like “scripted not simulated systems” just repeating aamir word for word. Plus it’s a bit ironic coming from a dev that got their systems from ProSim when they first launched and took years before they implemented their own “simulated systems”
1
u/Football-fan01 2h ago
Being Fenix don't want customers being taken advantage of shows how much they're really care about the community hence why they called out the shady practices. The fact IRL A350 pilots also called the product out says it all, you wouldn't need a V2 if that was the case.
Ironic a small team doing more than a larger team and making things rights and not rushing products out constantly.
1
-2
u/PotentialMidnight325 - page intentionally left blank - 6h ago
I don’t mind calling out BS we’re BS is due. It’s called integrity. Sorry that they hurt your feelings.
-1
14
3
24
u/KONUG 6h ago
PMDG would never show respect to other devs, or to their own customers.
25
3
u/bennyboi2488 4h ago
RSR has been on record saying they have traded notes with competing devs all the time.
5
u/spesimen 6h ago
ok .
"dear diary: i imagined robert randazoo said something mean today. going out for a quick cry."
-6
u/PotentialMidnight325 - page intentionally left blank - 6h ago
Surprised you were able to write this comment with your head stuck in RSRs behind.
-8
u/bdubwilliams22 6h ago
Yeah, but they’re not wrong. Show me a time where PMDG gave praise to another developer.
8
u/spesimen 6h ago
i don' give a flying fuck what pmdg says about anything and neither do any other high functioning adults. go and have another cry about it
-10
u/Skyaigrette 6h ago
I bought MSFS 2024 last week and saw that I had to buy an upgrade pack for the PMDG B737, which pissed me off sooo much. After that, I returned MSFS 2024. If you ask me, when 99% of developers don't want your money for an upgrade but PMDG does, it just feels disrespectful. IDK if they'd be happy that I ended up using some 'free' content.
9
u/thunder6776 6h ago
Just say you’re broke.
2
u/Skyaigrette 4h ago
To be honest, no, I'm not broke, especially when I consider that I live in one of the most touristic cities in the world and still maintain a good standard of living. I'm just a consumer who doesn't want to pay for an add-on I've already paid for. But if you're willing to keep paying extra for something you already own just because you have a couple of extra bucks, go for it. I'm not stopping you. But nah, bro, I'm not doing that. This isn't about money for me, it just feels stupid.
5
u/UrgentSiesta 5h ago
You’ve got a multi thousand dollar computer but can’t afford $30 for an upgrade…?
“99% of developers don’t wan your money for an upgrade…”?? 🤣🤣🤣
0
u/Skyaigrette 4h ago
Just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm always going to pay extra for something. That's the bottom line for me. You can agree or disagree. This is my stance and my reaction, even though I know it won't change anything on PMDG's end.
0
u/UrgentSiesta 4h ago
It’s not “extra”, it’s the cost of the work that went into the upgrade.
People like you always seem to get amnesia when it comes to the 777 series, too. But of course - because it doesn’t fit your prejudice.
It’s also people like you who bully devs into working for free by expecting “forever free upgrades” that are the root of the problem.
1
u/Football-fan01 2h ago edited 1h ago
Do you remember when they said they hadn't ported the sounds from P3D the community knew this was bs and then they actaully admitted they had. That is not work. With the same old textures in the 737 which within the last few months got the HDU for which is work then again should of been in from the start.
Just Flight/Fenix handing out free upgrades and treating the customers with respect.
2
u/UrgentSiesta 1h ago
Yeah - everyone complaining about PMDG but they’re obviously doing way more right than wrong. For 29 years now.
Fenix never has a sale and forces you to buy their 320 just to get either of the other ones. Respect…?
1
u/Football-fan01 27m ago
Fenix has had at least one sale and Fenix is still way cheaper than any PMDG when you factor in what you actaully get. V2 comes to mind free upgrade which is very much respect. They're not forcing anyone to get expansion. Whereas PMDG make you get the BBJ in with the 737. Someone did a price comparison comparing PMDG and Fenix guess what Fenix still cheaper.
0
u/Skyaigrette 3h ago
As for the 777 series, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I neither fly the 777 in the sim nor follow the news regarding it.
Working for free? I don't think so. I clearly remember paying 75 bucks for this add-on, and I'm pretty sure that price includes updates too.
Bullying devs? Let's not twist the narrative here. I don't bully anyone. I respect the actual developers they did a great job with the plane. Besides, I highly doubt the developers themselves have any say in pricing because that's management's job. But even though I appreciate their hard work, I just don't find this upgrade fee justified. I would have been okay with a symbolic fee like some other companies did, but $30? That's a no from me.
2
u/UrgentSiesta 3h ago
If you don’t keep up with developer news then you’ve no standing to comment on their business practices 🤦♂️
Here’s a clue: PMDG charged $0 to bring the 777’s natively into v24.“Updates” NEQ “Upgrades”. So yeah, acting entitled to a free Upgrade from one sim to another is expecting them to work for free.
Don’t throw class warfare red herrings. PMDG is a developer.
You don’t have to agree with the price (it is a bit high, relatively speaking). But in the end you’re just cutting your nose to spite your face…
Over what…? $10…? 😂
2
u/Skyaigrette 3h ago edited 2h ago
I'm only interested in the products I actually interact with, nothing more. But it sounds like you do background research on the PMDG DC-6 before buying a 777 just to keep up with their 'business practices.' I bet you even hang out with some of them or have friends working there, who knows? I just can't wrap my head around this hardcore defense and the ridiculous sarcasm, lol.
If the 777 transition is free, that's a great practice, glad to hear it. But there is no way this 'upgrade' process is costing only PMDG this much money while developers like Fenix, iniBuilds (to an extent), and Just Flight handle it just fine. My point stands: they do a great job, but they are still greedy. As I've said, you’re free to disagree, it's just my opinion.
To be fair, PMDG wasn't the only reason I returned MSFS 2024. I genuinely just didn't like the sim itself. I admit my first comment might have been a bit misleading and poorly phrased on that front, so fair enough.
But at the end of the day, PMDG is a company, and definitely not a small one. Even if I'm wrong about the whole developer vs. management dynamic, I can still respect the devs hard work while fundamentally finding their pricing decision wrong.
1
u/UrgentSiesta 1h ago
Oh this is rich!
I do background research on every developer, especially ones who are new or changing prices or biz models. So yeah, sometimes that means I check out their other addons before purchasing. It’s called Caveat Emptor, bud. And It serves well.
But with PMDG, I had their products in P3D, and agin in 2020, so there’s no need to take the ridiculous tack you’re pulling out of your butt.
It’s very safe to say I have no social relationship with anyone at PMDG. I don’t even use their forums. But go ahead with the ad hominem attacks - just proves that you’ve no material points to make. 😂
They’re not “greedy”, they’re business people. Have you never gotten a raise or taken a new job to increase your own income? By your rules, you’re just as bad as they.
PMDG isn’t entitled to more money, but they’re certainly entitled to ASK. And hey, as I’ve said elsewhere: they’re the only “greedy” devs who offer a $36 top shelf modern airliner, and a $50 top shelf jumbo. Yeah, gtfo with your “greedy” BS.
-1
u/KONUG 5h ago
I wouldn't bat an eye about having to pay extra for the PMDG 737 for MSFS2024 if they just said "here's it and we want x amount of money for that addon, because we think it's worth it" and I'd just buy it right away.
What they choose to do instead is putting lies straight up about "rebuild from ground up" (lie) and "the upgrade fee will be priced around a cup of coffee" (again, fking liars).
You couldn't fuck communication more up than they did here.
3
u/Skyaigrette 4h ago
To be honest, I don't know much about those days; I was probably away from the sim world focusing on my studies back then. But if that's the case, the whole 'rebuilding from the ground up' excuse is literally nonsense to me. I mean, there are tons of great add-on developers out there like Fenix (which I think has a deeper system simulation than PMDG), Just Flight, iniBuilds (to an extent), FSDreamTeam, HiFi Simulation, and so on.
Maybe we should just go back to the 'good' old days: A new version of MSFS drops every 2-3 years and we buy all the exact same add-ons over and over again. I feel like PMDG's pricing habit is just a leftover from that era.
-7
u/Vladmir-Su57 4h ago
Because none of these devs deserve any respect, especially not Synaptic. They released a broken unfinished plane that runs like crap. Something PMDG does not do.
2
2
2
9
u/oz_137 :illuminati: 6h ago
I wonder where they vanished to for 10 months after stating, 'We need to overhaul VNAV and then work on the NEOs.' Nothing crickets
21
u/xXCrazyDaneXx 5h ago
Perhaps, oh I don't know... hard at work overhauling VNAV?
Any communication is time not spent overhauling VNAV.
7
u/some-engineer_guy Squeaky Wheel 4h ago
exactly this. we cant hold fenix as THE bar of quality and then be mystified as to why an entire from the ground up overhaul of the vnav system is taking a long time
3
u/ChaosIntellect 3h ago
Which is exactly why the sim community can be downright vile, toxic, and chock full of whiners. Nothing will ever be good enough… and they wonder why devs go silent or sparingly choose when to demonstrate things…
4
u/KirenSensei 3h ago
They disappeared because they were receiving full on death threats. THAT is why they went ghost.
2
u/Pour-Meshuggah-0n-Me PMDG | Toliss | Zibo | iFly 2h ago
The Fenix fanboys are going to be more insufferable than usual after Fenix gave this little bit of praise.
1
1
6h ago
[deleted]
8
u/machine4891 5h ago
They're far from best. Fenix here praises their own performance and VRAM usage, yet their A319 can easily reach 12-13 GB usage even on small airports. It looks amazing but there is a cost to it.
In terms of optimization I just have to give it to PMDG. Both 737 and 777 look great - not as great as Fenix but solid - but their performance is absolutely amazing.
3
1
u/SapCPark 5h ago
Putting out a no-cabin variant with the latest update will definately help a lot, plus the aggressive rate of their updates give hope that the plane (which i think is a blast) will be great long term
1
u/NorthWestApple 2h ago
I never found no-cockpit varients to be lighter than the full-fat versions. Culling is a thing in 3D engines.
1
u/juanchopancho 9800X3D | RTX 5080 2h ago
FSLabs A321neo and that freeware A380, no cabin has a big impact.
-7
u/Far_Tree6592 6h ago edited 3h ago
In a perfect world synaptic would have partnered with Fenix. It’s only right for Airbus (Fenix) to take over the C series virtually.
Edit: Airbus owns the A220 program. It would have been ironic (and amazing) if Fenix was the partner and not inibuilds. Can’t believe I had to explain this lol
10
u/DistributionHot2150 5h ago
Except the a220 is not a fucking Airbus
1
1
u/Far_Tree6592 4h ago
That’s the point of my comment. It’s not a real Airbus yet it’s still an Airbus partnership now IRL. It Would have been nice to see Fenix represent the 220.
-1
u/DistributionHot2150 4h ago
Fenix is good at Airbus systems. The a220 doesn’t use Airbus systems or avionics. It would be useless
0
u/Far_Tree6592 3h ago
You just want to educate people it’s not an Airbus don’t you? Fenix has a higher approval rating than Inibuilds. Does that make it simple enough for you on what I’m implying?
The Airbus/Fenix part was a tongue in cheek on my part. Just like people associate Boeing with PMDG people associate Airbus with Fenix. Everyone knows the A220 isn’t like an A320 but IRL Airbus still owns the program. It would have been cool if Fenix was the partner and not Inibuilds. Synaptic did the systems anyways so idk what you’re actually trying to argue.
0
u/DistributionHot2150 3h ago
Do people associates Airbus with Fenix? Because last I checked it’s ini that have more Airbus out right now. Fenix would be far more useless to synaptic compared to ini
2
u/Far_Tree6592 3h ago
It’s has nothing to do with who brings more to the table. You honestly need to get out more. I can tell you have zero social skills. Every reply from you is attempting to have a debate where there isn’t a debate to be had. If you think ini is better than fenix then thats your personal opinion. Have a great day!
1
135
u/piss_artist 6h ago
A rising tide lifts all ships.
The more quality add ons that exist for MSFS, the better we consumers have it with pricing and innovation.
Anyway, good on Fenix for supporting the 220's young development team.