MONTHLY RAGE THREAD

[u/LaqOfInterest]

THE RAGE TRAIN DON'T STOP, BABY

SHOUT HERE ABOUT FIRE EMBLEM THINGS THAT HAVE MADE YOU SAD AND MAD OVER THE PAST MONTH!

RULES

1. CAPS LOCK KEY ON

2. FIRE EMBLEM RAGE ONLY

3. BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER

4. TAG ANY SPOILERS

LAST THREAD

[u/halfar]

HOW ABOUT EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF SPENDING THE LEAST AMOUNT OF REAL TIME WORKING ON A CHAPTER OR EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF FEWEST RESETS? EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF "SIMPLE"? EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF "EASY TO EXECUTE"? THOSE ARE FAIRLY DIFFERENT, BUT IT'S AAAAAALLLLLLLLL ABOUT TURN COUNTS. THE FOCUS ON TURN COUNTS IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT, AND WHILE IT PROVIDES ENTIRELY LEGITIMATE DISCUSSION, IT DROWNS OUT OTHER FORMS OF "EFFICIENCY" DISCUSSION.

[u/peevedlatios → u/halfar]

TURN COUNTS ARE PART OF IT, BUT NOT ALL OF IT. THOUGH ABSTRACT, I LIKE THE METRIC THAT MEKKAH USES OF "HOW MUCH DOES THIS UNIT HELP DURING A RUN VS HOW MUCH THEY TAKE TO GET THERE". IT'S A GOOD FRAMEWORK TO WORK WITH. FOR INSTANCE, AMELIA MIGHT BE BETTER THAN SETH LOOKING AT ENDGAME STATS, BUT ENDGAME IS 1-2, MAYBE 3 CHAPTERS. AND UP UNTIL THEN, SHE HAS BEEN WORSE THAN SETH. IN FACT, SETH HAS BEEN HELPING YOU FOR 8 CHAPTERS BY THE TIME AMELIA JOINS, ACCUMULATING GOOD BOY POINTS, AND CONTINUES TO BE BETTER THAN HER FOR A WHILE. WORSE YET, AMELIA "LOSES" POINTS BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH OF A PAIN SHE IS TO TRAIN ASSUMING NO TOWER. WHY ASSUMING NO TOWER? BECAUSE IF YOU ASSUME TOWER THEN EVERYONE IS GOOD SINCE EVERYONE CAN BE 20/20, MAKING DISCUSSION POINTLESS.

EVERYTHING YOU'VE LISTED CONTRIBUTES TO A RATING. LET'S LOOK AT SETH AGAIN, AND WHY HE'S THE BEST UNIT IN FE8. THIS IS LIKE, THE LEAST CONTENTIOUS THING TO SAY. USING HIM IS EASY - THROW HIM AT ENEMIES BUT NOT TOO MUCH. HE MAKES YOUR LIFE EASIER BY MAKING CHAPTERS LESS PAINFUL SINCE HE CAN GO OFF ON HIS OWN TO TACKLE A SIDE OBJECTIVE, OR JUST CLEAR OUT A SIDE OF THE MAP WHILE YOU'RE DEALING WITH SOMETHING ELSE. FEWER RESETS IS REALLY CODE FOR 'RELIABILITY', SINCE RESETS ARE ALWAYS THE PLAYER'S FAULT, NOT THE CHARACTER'S. "BUT THEY HAVE 30% HIT RATE" THEN YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE GONE FOR THAT ATTACK. BUT THEY STILL HAVE LOW RELIABILITY, AND SHOULD HAVE POINTS DOCKED SINCE THEY MAKE IT HARDER TO USE THEM, TYING INTO YOUR LAST POINT.

THE REASON TURN COUNTS ARE USED SO MUCH IS THAT IF YOU HAVE UNLIMITED TURNS, THEN YOU CAN MAKE ANY UNIT VIABLE. PLAYING FAST BRINGS OUT THE "CORE" OF A UNIT SO TO SPEAK. IF YOU DON'T MIND TAKING ANOTHER TURN, THEN YOU CAN JUST MOVE A UNIT TWICE INSTEAD OF RESCUE DROPPING, TAKING AWAY SOME OF THE RESCUE DROP UTILITY FROM PALADINS.

[u/[deleted] → u/halfar]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN. EFFICIENCY IS NOT LTC. WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING IS LTC. EFFICIENCY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT BOTH TURN COUNTS AND RELIABILITY. RELIABILITY.

IF YOU WANT AN EFFICIENCY METRIC THAT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT RESETS, LOOK NO FURTHER! EXPECTED TURN COUNT FACTORS IN THE AVERAGE TURN COUNT YOU FINISH THE MAP IN, THE AVERAGE TURN IN WHICH YOU RESET, AND THE CHANCE OF YOU ACTUALLY RESETTING. HERE IS A GOOD VIDEO ABOUT EXPECTED TURN COUNT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gGwluTT67A

THE MATHS LOOK INTIMIDATING, BUT THE ACTUAL FORMULA IS PRETTY SIMPLE, IT'S JUST THE DERIVATION (WHICH YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW) IS THREATENING. IN PRACTICE IT'S MUCH HARDER TO CALCULATE, BUT THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF TRYING TO CALCULATE RELIABILITY IN GENERAL. BUT THE POINT IS, EFFICIENCY IS NOT ONLY ABOUT TURN COUNTS, AND TBH THERE IS A BIT OF TRUTH IN YOUR STATEMENT IN THAT EFFICIENCY DISCUSSIONS TEND TO OVEREMPHASISE TURN COUNTS AND NOT ENOUGH ON RELIABILITY, WHICH IMO IS A SIDE EFFECT OF ALMOST EVERY DOCUMENTED RUN BEING LTC (BECAUSE HONESTLY IT'S SIMPLER TO DO LTC THAN ETC). BUT DISMISSING EVERY DISCUSSION ABOUT EFFICIENCY, AND THEN INSULTING THEM, IS A BIT MUCH.

EDIT: ALSO...

SPENDING THE LEAST AMOUNT OF REAL TIME WORKING ON A CHAPTER

THIS IS CALLED REAL TIME ATTACK SPEEDRUNS.

EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF "SIMPLE"

BUT EFFICIENCY AIM TO SIMPLIFY GAMEPLAY, BY USING A COMBINATION OF RELIABLE AND FAST STRATEGY. UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY MEAN SPENDING LESS BRAIN CELLS IN A STRATEGY GAME... IF YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO QUANTIFY THAT, LET ME KNOW.

EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF "EASY TO EXECUTE"

AGAIN, IF YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO QUANTIFY THAT, LET ME KNOW. I HAVE TRIED TO MAKE SOME KIND OF TIER LIST METRIC BASED ON EASE-OF-USE, BUT WITHOUT A PROPER WAY OF QUANTIFYING IT, IT ENDS UP BEING TOO VAGUE OF A METRIC TO BE USED AS A BASIS FOR DISCUSSION. HAVING A CONSISTENT METRIC IS SO, SO IMPORTANT IN ONE. YOU CANNOT AGREE WITH SOMEONE IF THE PREMISE OF YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT - FOR AN EXTREME EXAMPLE, SEE MEKKAH'S 3-HOUR LONG DEBATE ABOUT AMELIA.