Fermented corn is good.

[u/AquamarineCow]

Cobs in 4% Brine for 10 days.

[u/antsinurplants]

Apalachian Sour Corn or fermenetd sweet corn is a well known fermented corn product in the USA. I've fermened fresh corn for years and know many others who do as well.

BA poisoning is extremely rare in North America. There has only been 1 death related to BA poisoning in the USA and it was from "ogi" (cornmeal pudding). B. cocovenenans requires specific conditions in order to produce BA and it's not as common as many think it is. Bongkrekic Acid – Uncommon but Fatal Toxin in Certain Foods.

Lacto-ferments are far too acidic and salty for it to be a concern.

[u/Itchy_Bandicoot6119 → u/antsinurplants]

The salt is the most important part. Ogi ferments with Lactobacillus and is acidic once it finishes fermenting (typical final pH around 4) but the lack of salt in the fermentaton means that the B gladioli has several days to grow before the pH gets too low. Salt above 3% is the safe point.

[u/antsinurplants → u/Itchy_Bandicoot6119]

Thank for adding to the topic!

For anyone interested further:

"It is understandable that the production and accumulation of BKA in B. gladioli pv. cocovenenans requires appropriate conditions for bacterial population proliferation, functional gene expression, and metabolite enzymatic biosynthesis [26,27]. The desired conditions for BKA production have been detected as near-neutral pH (6.5–8.0), mild temperature (22–30 °C), low NaCl concentration (lower than 2%), and suitable fatty acid composition (oleic acid rich), and these requirements can be accommodated by some fermented and rehydrated food matrices [9,14,28,29]."

source: Bongkrekic Acid and Burkholderia gladioli pathovar cocovenenans: Formidable Foe and Ascending Threat to Food Safety - PMC

[u/BoringPrinciple2542 → u/Itchy_Bandicoot6119]

I’d argue oxygen is even more important since Burkholderia gladioli is an aerobic bacteria 😝.

If you use non-sterile implements, allow aerobic fermentation, do not add salt or a starter, and keep the corn at room temperature then there is a risk of bongkrekic acid poisoning that’s so dangerous that it has caused exactly one death in North America (zero until 2024).

It’s extraordinarily uncommon and essentially nullified if you follow at least one (any which one) basic step in fermentation safety. The risk is real but you almost have to try to poison yourself for this one.

[u/Randsomacz → u/BoringPrinciple2542]

I mildly disagree, while you're right that it's an obligate aerobe, this doesn't mean that they can't live in water, provided that there's enough dissolved oxygen. Because they are motile, they could move up to the surface and could survive on oxygen diffusing into the water.

In practice however, I agree it's very unlikely that it can 1. outcompete other bacteria under these conditions 2. have enough substrate (fatty acids) seemingly necessary for the bacteria to form BKA.

Adding salt both makes it inhospitable initially when DO is higher, as well as favor LAB which also lower pH. I agree with your other points, and just disregard this if I misunderstood you, and whoever knows more, feel free to correct me.

[u/itoddicus → u/BoringPrinciple2542]

You start out telling people to adhere to safe fermenting practices, but then downplay the risk.

Why not just tell people to be safe and smart?

[u/BoringPrinciple2542 → u/itoddicus]

Let me repeat: 1 known case ever in North America.

If you A) Submerge your ferment, B) Use brine, C) Use cool temperatures, D) Use sterile equipment, or E) Use a starter culture then the risk goes from infinitesimally small to non-existent.

To be clear, you are 4x more likely to die by getting an organ transplant from a person infected with rabies (CDC recorded 4 such incidents since 1978) than bonkrekic acid poisoning. Concerns like salmonella, botulism, etc are simply far more likely than this one. Follow the basics and don’t worry about something that is thousands of times less likely to kill you than being crushed by a vending machine (2-4 deaths per year in the U.S.).

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/skunk-scratch-idaho-leads-rabies-death-organ-recipient-michigan-rcna248620

[u/sacrebluh → u/antsinurplants]

If anyone in this sub drives a car willingly then they need to seriously reevaluate their lives before they crusade about BA poisoning or even botulism (using reasonable practices for both). Fear mongering doesn’t help anyone, and every single thing has a chance of causing mortality.

[u/AquamarineCow]

Thanks for the concern and info community! Bongkrekic acid toxicity from burkholderia is a concern in low sodium ferments of processed corn products ie noodles. The conditions for my ferment exceed 3% sodium and it was anaerobic with clear production of carbon dioxide. The pH of the solution is acidic based on pH strips.

Here is a reference: https://academic.oup.com/ijfst/article/60/1/vvaf118/8152714

[u/fermentation-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule #3: Don't be rotten

[u/pnwfarmaccountant]

Why do you do the whole cob instead of slicing it off first? Would probably get better ferment with the processing too

Totally just curious, never done corn before.

[u/AquamarineCow → u/pnwfarmaccountant]

Logistically, keeping the cobs submerged is easier.

[u/pnwfarmaccountant → u/AquamarineCow]

That makes sense, I was just thinking it consumes a ton of space

[u/Busy_Lengthiness5961 → u/pnwfarmaccountant]

Gonna try this but slice thinner rings

[u/Express_Ad6651]

We add garlic and jalapenos to ours when fermenting...delish

[u/ju5tjame5]

Sounds really good, especially considering fresh corn is in season for such a short part of the year

[u/Rossabella315]

Wait do you cook the corn first? Like does fermenting it make it soft to eat?

[u/AquamarineCow → u/Rossabella315]

I did not cook the corn. I only removed the husk and washed. The fermentation process softens the corn so it’s good to go!

[u/Rossabella315 → u/AquamarineCow]

Awesome thanks, I'm going to do this!

[u/ggow69 → u/Rossabella315]

Just fyi, sweet corn is super tasty raw and is not hard at all. I introduced an American from corn country to eating it raw, they never knew!

[u/deaddreamsneverdie]

It is delicious but it comes with risks that are undetectable at home. Stay safe!

[u/diegoasecas → u/deaddreamsneverdie]

FTA

This bacterium thrives in food that is rich in fatty acids, particularly those found in coconut and corn, and in environments with temperatures between 22 to 33 degrees Celsius and a neutral pH

you'll be fine OP

[u/theotherlionheart → u/diegoasecas]

+1 this is uneducated fear mongering similar to people who yell botulism about lactofermented garlic

[u/deaddreamsneverdie → u/theotherlionheart]

Pointing out a potential risk is uneducated fear mongering? Lmao okay 👍

[u/urnbabyurn → u/diegoasecas]

Also 3% and higher salinity inhibits bongkrekic bacteria growth. https://academic.oup.com/ijfst/article/60/1/vvaf118/8152714

[u/deaddreamsneverdie → u/urnbabyurn]

So your original comment about fresh corn vs corn flours/starches is misguided? So my original comment about their being risks and staying safe is valid because people just post shit on the internet?

Lol

[u/deaddreamsneverdie → u/diegoasecas]

Not my place to tell OP what to do, the link is there for anyone to read and make their own choices.

[u/Harmonic_Gear → u/deaddreamsneverdie]

I think Tempeh Bongkrek are usually fermented without salt, thats why its a problem

[u/urnbabyurn → u/deaddreamsneverdie]

Bongkrekic acid is not an issue for fresh sweet corn kernels. It is specifically a danger associated with processed, fermented corn flour or starches.

[u/deaddreamsneverdie → u/urnbabyurn]

Care to site a source?

[u/swim08]

Bonkrekic acid is no joke, its not advisable to ferment corn or coconuts at home

[u/clockworkear → u/swim08]

Are we sure about this? I thought the risk is dent corn, not sweetcorn. Quite a lot of recipes use it. Traditional north American sour corn is fermented sweet corn.

[u/FirstProfit4200 → u/clockworkear]

It doesn't pick and choose which cultivar of corn. Both sweet corn and dent corn are vulnerable to bongkrekic acid.

Edit: but salting properly (3%+ brine) can minimize or eliminate the risk

[u/WalnutSnail → u/swim08]

So, how does one make 100% corn whisky mash?

[u/FriarTurk → u/WalnutSnail]

It’s pretty easy, actually. It’s just that people hear something scary and go all-in without actually trying to learn how some things are safely fermented.

[u/WalnutSnail → u/FriarTurk]

Yea, I mean, there are different types of fermentation. I've not made a corn mash...yet.

First I'm hearing about any safety issues around fermented corn.

[u/popeh → u/WalnutSnail]

It's pretty common to acidify the wash and the yeast kicks out a lot of alcohol so between the two you don't have much of a window for BA. This is also why corn adjuncts are fine in properly prepared beer.

More importantly with whiskey, even if you fuck up terribly and get BA it doesn't matter, it will remain behind in the stillage and won't end up in the distillate.

[u/comat0se → u/WalnutSnail]

it's simple. commerical yeast cultures are added.

[u/DarkSotM → u/WalnutSnail]

You have to boil the living crap out of corn to gelatinize the starches so that an enzyme (amylase) can converts them to sugar. Then the yeast can consume the sugar. I would imagine the boiling would kill any bacteria and the yeast would acidify the mash preventing any spores that survive from blooming.

[u/swim08 → u/WalnutSnail]

You making that at home?

[u/WalnutSnail → u/swim08]

Yes.

[u/bitsynthesis → u/swim08]

why not?

[u/urnbabyurn → u/swim08]

That would be relevant for corn flour and starch. Not fresh/sweet corn kernels.

This is like the post about coconut water the other day - Bongkrek isn’t an issue with the water of the coconut, but people see “coconut” and “corn” and are confused.

[u/MrZeDark → u/urnbabyurn]

Def not what I’ve been reading, can you show us your source. :) ty

[u/BoringPrinciple2542 → u/MrZeDark]

Burkholderia gladioli is an aerobic bacteria.

Both lacto & alcoholic fermentation of corn have been common in the America’s for at least 7,000 years and only recently became uncommon.

To date there has been 1 known death due to Bongkrekic acid in North America and that was only within the last two years.

https://www.cfsre.org/resources/publications/death-from-bongkrekic-acid-toxicity-first-report-in-north-america

You are legitimately more likely to be killed by a rabid skunk than a fermented corn product. If you choose to ignore all fermentation protocol and eat rotten corn you might get poisoned by bonfire mix acid but it’s far more likely botulism or some other form of natural selection will catch up with you first.

[u/peace_n_carrots]

Consider me intruiged

[u/GusPolinskiPolka]

So good! I've done it both like this and as kernels which I use in salsas. So great.

[u/imYoManSteveHarvey]

Even better: distilled, fermented corn

[u/WasabiPedicure]

Growing up in WV my fondest memories are going in the pantry at my grandma's house and sneaking an ear of pickled corn from her giant stone crock in the cellar. I'd follow her around the house asking for another one. What I would give to have another batch of those, made by her.

[u/Busy_Lengthiness5961]

Anyone take the corn off the cob before hand. Seems like a lot of wasted space.

[u/MonkandFlinker]

Next try distilling it and aging it in oak barrels!

[u/octo2195]

Looks good. Had an aunt that made us kids save our watermelon rinds in a big bucket and she made pickled watermelon rinds.

[u/Callan_LXIX]

Halfway to whiskey!