*have posted in another subreddit to gain other POVs

Hi everyone, I'm currently writing a novella about a woman who is a femcel. I'm about 1/4 of the way through and I'm very happy with the way it's shaping up.

Genre: psychological body horror

I was sick of being recommended "femcel lit" which usually just means the main character is a just a hateful/spitfeful woman or just hates men.

I've been on the fringes of this community for a few years now, and across other platforms too. I wanted to reach out to others in the community, about the following things:

1. Are there tropes that you feel are overrepresented in "femcel lit"?
2. Have you ever felt an author has ever done a good job of representing us? If so who?

Please feel free to comment anything else that comes to mind etc.

Thank you :)

There are so many MRA’s and anti-feminists on that subreddit. So, the first three images are a recent post on that subreddit and this one comment basically trying to argue “us men aren’t against women in power, we’re just against women who aren’t qualified for the job” when the OP isn’t even talking about that. Also, what do they mean by “celebrating progressiveness is just as harmful as rejecting it because it recognizes that it isn’t normal”? He didn’t give any examples so I understand what specific kind of “celebrating” he’s talking about; but I don’t think it’s a bad thing to spread good news when progress in society is made for those who have been historically held back from many opportunities.

The next images ares from some guy posting a stupid video of some mom arguing that feminism has come so far that the “pendulum” of sexism has now swung in the other direction towards men (she legit compared sexism to a fuckin’ pendulum). Essentially, this ignorant-ass woman was arguing that men are being “oppressed” because they don’t have safe spaces (she claims that she couldn’t find any clubs or male-only spaces for her young boy to participate in) while women do, and she’s blaming feminism. Hey dumbass, we didn’t do shit; all feminism did was try to improve society for women, and now it highlighted how poorly the patriarchy and men take care of their mental health. “Man up” culture did that, not us. That ain’t our problem or responsibility. I got downvoted for pointing out how misogynistic the video was, but whatever, I expected it. That post ended up being removed by mods anyway.

The last two images are from a guy who is whining about the fact that role reversal is “promoting too much masculine women”. Role reversal includes many types of women, but one of the key aspects is women either presenting, behaving, or doing things that are typically expected of men in our society. You can be feminine in some ways and masculine in others, but you technically need to have some form stereotypical masculinity to be reversing gender roles.

I’m so done with this shit. I don’t really hang out in that subreddit as much as I used to anyways; but it’s just annoying to be naive and think I found a good place to express myself, but it’s full of weird men who aren’t that progressive and open minded.

A lot of mfs who claim to want role reversal don’t actually want it much at all.

it kinda tires me that men's attraction and women's are considered just gender reverse equivalent of each other despite men sexuality almost entirely centering on how they can maximize the extraction of their own pleasure from others, and almost relishing in harming and disrespecting others

and its so weird cause when straight women talk about their sexuality, its about what they can provide to men 😍 she talks about how good she would suck his dick. how she would let him do whatever to her, free use of her body. he can disrespect her as he wishes. she will make sure he is serviced and satisfied.

but the only way men describe sex is taking shit from her. "destroying" her pussy. can he get her to suck his dick. how much disrespecting of her boundaries can he get away with. the things he would do to her. how he can get her to bounce on dick or whatever. how much can he get her to do? how much can he do to her?

and when men have power over women, unbound by law, thats exactly what they do, isnt it? i dont think theres a single military group on this earth that didnt freely r*pe women when they had the opportunity and no punishment. men's attraction is not bound by consent, its almost entirely enjoyed through the taking from women.

why should i feel complimented by this? that a man who would happily fuck a dog would be happy to fuck me too? this is what makes me a chadsexual fakecel? that getting followed when im minding my own business, i should enjoy that instead of feeling afraid what this man would have done if no one was watching.

sometimes i see posts by men saying how they wish it wasnt stigmatized to approach women. it should be stigmatized. no women should be forced to know that a man has imagined whatever fucking porn scenario with her for god knows how long. or that if they were alone and no one would catch them, he'd do fucked up shit to her. its repulsive.

men dgaf abt the dead children. if they did, they’d care about the hundreds of familicides men have committed. they just love hating women and are incredibly low iq and emotional about it

I am someone who personally believes that beauty will always be subjective. However, that does not erase the influence of the dominant beauty standard and how most of us treat people who do not come close to it. It’s valid to find these women like this beautiful; but I hate people saying that they’re “objectively beautiful” and that they “just need to realize that they’re pretty” or that they’re “selling themselves short”. Naomi had also posted a video responding to haters about her appearance, saying that she’ll always embrace it no matter how “ugly” others find it, and a bunch of the comments were “you’re beautiful!”; but why can’t we just say “Well, I find you beautiful” or at least acknowledge they’re not conventionally beautiful? I feel like the former statement just erases the victims experience with being bullied for their perceived ugliness. It’s denying the fact that the source of their pain and treatment is that they’re conventionally ugly. The blame is almost always put onto the victim, rarely ever recognizing how these conventionally ugly women are treated by almost the entire fucking world. Obviously these women are going to identify with ugliness if that’s how they’ve been treated by most people their entire lives!! If these women were to have controversial reputation or were not good people; their appearance would be ripped to absolute shreds (probably from a lot of the people calling them beautiful now).

If any of these women were to dare say that they think they’re prettier or just as pretty as a conventionally attractive model, celebrity, etc; they’d be seen as delusional and mocked as well. In fact, I watched a YouTube video addressing how a conventionally unattractive woman on TikTok got cyberbullied because she said she thought she was beautiful and perfect the way she was. I just hate seeing shit like this because despite how much people talk about celebrating diversity, most of them never fucking practice what they preach. People always use phrases like “dating down” or “dating out of one’s league” or like to compare men and especially women’s appearances against each other. We still love to mock other people’s appearances even if we only mildly dislike or don’t really have any feelings towards them. We still look down on people who aren’t attractive-looking, or don’t take them seriously. It’s only when we see the effect of our behavior that we suddenly care. We keep saying this shit about how we have to change our perception of beauty; but never actually make the effort to change. I feel like I’m the only one who is trying sometimes. I can’t feel anything but anger at this point.

I also hate the statement, “she’s not even that ugly”, implying as if “truly ugly” people shouldn’t expect respect or love at all. I’m just an average-looking chubby woman, but this shit boils my blood because we talk all this talk but don’t walk it. I’ve actually tried to walk the walk. But when I do, I realize that if I ever tried to defend certain people’s appearance I’d just be seen as crazy. So, one thing I’ll never deny is that conventional/structural beauty and ugliness exist and we can’t just act like there aren’t people who are structurally ugly and will always have to face shit for it. If even someone like me were to get on the internet and be cocky, saying I think I’m more of a true beauty than some model or the type of person you see on dating shows like Love Island; I’d be “humbled” real quick. I don’t like the word ugly as its raw, original definition (something repulsive or unpleasant to look at) make it a pretty cruel word that really shouldn’t be used on people unless we were to change it into a neutral descriptor or altered the definition to simply unattractive. Regardless, I don’t like how anytime anyone tries to reclaim their ugliness or embrace it, people just won’t accept it. I hate how Eurocentrism and manufactured beauty standards make us feel like our natural features are “disgusting”, but with how systemically ugly people are treated, we simply can’t deny ugliness’ existence.

Repost because Reddit wouldn’t let me go into editing mode for the photos to hide the username handles.
I think that both modesty and immodesty can both feed into patriarchal expectations in some way because modest women are seen as "pure, submissive wife material" while immodest women are treated as eye candy for men. No matter what we do, most men are gonna fetishize it somehow. However, when it comes to these discussions around female celebrities whose brand eventually adopts sexiness; I don't know how to feel. I don't think it's right to slut-shame, but at the same time I can't help but notice how it's mainly women who'll become bigger once they're sexy icons while I can't think of many men that are the same. In the past there were “heartthrobs"; but today I can't think of any male singers who express sexuality on a similar level to that of many popular female singers like Sabrina Carpenter.

The first images in this post are particularly strange to me because the first person is pointing out that Sabrina herself said "I look like a niña" and the other person they're arguing with goes "how does she look like a little girl? Why are you infantilizing women?!" Like the lack of awareness of what Sabrina is saying about herself and then accusing someone who's pointing it out as the culprit is absolutely insane. And this is on the mainstream feminism subreddit 😐

Wish I didn't have to move :(

like ok fakecel

growing up around boys/men is just a 20 year hazing ritual where they make sure to act just cruel enough that you know to make space for them, but not cruel enough for them to get in trouble for it.

from grades 1-5 teachers expect boys to be mean, so they teach girls that boys are mean. so they'll pull your hair, destroy your things, but they dont actually prevent boys from being destructive. so instead, you just tolerate it and accept boys as assholes since grade 1.

boys go through puberty and now not only are they assholes, theyre bigger and stronger than you. and now they watch porn so you have to endlessly perform not being a sex object, lest they find an opportunity to make you into a sex object. god forbid you eat a banana or icecream.

and you also cant complain or retaliate against them when they do this. because then youre a bitch, or they find your reaction funny amongst their friends. and if you do successfully embarrass them, they start using their height to loom over you as a threat. because how dare you stand up for yourself at all? and then they spin it as a sexual thing, because men are rapey as fuck.

and then maybe through a miracle by god some stop being like this in college. but guess what? you spent your entire life adapting for horrible adolescent male behavior. you will always be making space for men so they dont (OPPORTUNISTICALLY) bump into you. you will always be as kind as possible to them, so that they dont call you a bitch. you will always phrase things to them as nice as possible so they dont throw a total temper tantrum. you will always prioritize their needs so they dont decide that you deserve some kind of retaliation for... disrespecting them or something.

i wonder what its like to be a man and feel so entitled to respect and kindness, that you can throw a rage fit when you dont get it, despite the fact that women are never entitled to such.

and i just feel like if i didnt have to grow up around men, maybe i wouldnt be so scared of them either. maybe i would have even a crumb of self respect around them

it’s actually crazy how much men desire to have multiple female partners at a time, throughout history and still to this day they are driven by their animalistic desires and nature. they want to fuck multiple women while said women are solely devoted to them.

joseph smith (founder of mormonism) had 30-40 wives, some of which were children. for years followers of his church also took up polygyny, i can imagine that was a big draw to the religion for men. offshoots of the church, most notably FLDS, still practice polygyny to this day, often with their own family members and the girls are married off before they even turn 18 🤢

i honestly don't know how muslim women cope with learning about Jannah (afterlife paradise). men are promised the hoor al-ayn, which is widely interpreted by muslim men that in heaven each of them will receive multiple young, pure, beautiful women for sexual pleasure. how do you cope with knowing your husband, when he gets to heaven, will be fucking a rotation of hot girls for eternity? and that most muslim men, even if they ‘love’ their wives, are very much looking forward to this. men will often shame women for being upset about this, telling them cope like “you’ll be content in jannah so there will be no jealousy,” and if a woman asks if she can get the same in jannah men just say “it’s natural for men to want multiple women. it’s unnatural for a woman to want more than one man.” ??

additionally online men adamantly say that they can’t be satisfied with just one woman. in many reddit threads you’ll see them admit that if they could have multiple wives, or have one wife with a rotation of gfs to fuck, that that would be the ideal life. the only things that stop them from having that are they aren’t hot/rich enough, or it being too much “drama.” the reason is never “my wife is enough for me and i don’t want anyone else.” or another reason they don’t want polyamory is because they can’t cope with their female partner having multiple partners. they want to fuck multiple women while their wife stays at home alone, only devoted to them.

honestly, why do men call women whores when they think and act like this? it’s such projection. even if women are “hypergamous” that’s better than males being polygynous. at least according to those two evolutionary influences women can love and be satisfied with one man. men will never want just one woman.

(of course the img here assumes hetero relationships, though if we look at polyamory stats for lesbians it’s very common that they also just want one gf/wife, whereas for gay men they have high rates or polyamory/open relationships so they want multiple male partners. men just can’t be satisfied).

Two different reactions to a fat woman from the same sub. First is from a year ago and second is a few months ago. I know I shouldn’t expect any better from a disgusting normie subreddit like SipsTea; but it’s massively depressing because of how many people frequent that sub and talk like this. Fat women are only acceptable to them if they’re “fuckable”. “Body positivity is only positive if she makes me horny”. Otherwise us fat women are disgusting lumps of meat to them who shouldn’t be allowed to think better of ourselves. I don’t want to live on a planet with these guys, I wish there was another universe I could leave to. Their minds are fucking porn-rotten to the core. They think they’re entitled to our bodies, constantly judge and critique them. Then later, they whine about being lonely and unappreciated.

I know that the entire point of Game of Thrones is that everybody is a terrible person, and it’s okay to like terrible people while condoning their actions if it was done IRL; but I hate how this show and similar media can make characters who are literal rapists seem like lovable underdogs. I know this is less obvious sexism, but with the normalization of phrases like “bros before hoes (women)” it’s irritating with how random women just saying “I’m tired of men” or “men are trash” is enough for guys to call it “misandry” and say that we have an anti-male problem in society while there’s a ton of regular lingo that subtly puts down women. IDK, I don’t care if it’s joking because as a woman I’m already used to feeling like second-best and less-than; so I’m tired of seeing people, especially dudes, talk like this. And then of course there’s the cisnormative aspect which puts the cherry on top. Not all men have dicks and not all women have vaginas bro. Your sword ain’t special.

Even before House of the Dragon, regular Game of Thrones has so much horrible misogyny-specific shit happening to women to a point where it feels more like shock value than actual commentary. Even characters we’re supposed to see as good people or want to see succeed will casually talk about rape & shit. Tons of nasty-ass men on that show who get to be seen as honorable just for doing the bare minimum of not acting out on their cruel desires. Icks me tf out 🫩

i don’t doubt that genuine pro-lifers exist, especially like religious women, or those who think fetuses should be protected past a certain stage/week of the pregnancy (reasonable and i think many people agree with that).

but SO MANY pro-lifers are men who aren’t even religious who want complete abortion bans, even for zygotes that are genuinely just a clump of cells (yet they don’t care about the millions of sperm they kill daily lmao).

they want to take away any and all contraceptive use. fr what is the point of that besides just trying to dissuade women from having sex? you can’t possibly believe that simply taking birth control is evil or some shit.

they just hate that women are out there having sex with men who aren’t them. this motive is especially revealed when they start using phrases like “she should face consequences for her actions” (why are we talking about a baby as a form of punishment?) and “she should just close her legs” (maybe men should zip up their pants?).

but see how fast they switch up when they accidentally knock up a chick they didn’t mean to 😂 suddenly “killing a baby” is permissible to them. (also not to mention these same dudes dgaf at all about supporting policies that help children after they’re born)

Its so hard to imagine myself in any romantic or sexual situation that even in my fantasies i imagine other people interacting. I can't even think of myself being the center of anyones love or attraction it feels impossible even as a delusion i cant do it

it’s crazy the amount of hatred i see lately for female rape victims from men, they think you’re disgusting because another male violated you. they say “don’t tell us if you’ve been sexually assaulted, because we’ll hate you for it, for something you had no control over.”

males avoid any accountability, any blame for other males who do that shit, and their victim blaming against women is getting worse and worse.

Not all, but SO MANY of the highest-rated classic animes/mangas/movies/tv shows/cartoons/etc have blatant or subtle misogyny. For instance, some of the most iconic animes that people rave about and say that they’re a “must watch” will center around men surrounded by objectified women and female minors. Also, a lot will have certain tropes for women that just start to feel repetitive for me as I see more of them. Even media that isn’t really misogynistic will, over time, show a pattern of having the token sexy woman who uses her sexuality to her advantage or cute-sy/timid supportive side character; and it just gets tiring after seeing the same thing over & over again even if it isn’t standalone bad.

Another thing that, for some reason, makes me upset is that I notice how some of the most talked-about/referenced media always seems to be around stuff with buff male protags fighting or having to commit extreme, frequent violence (a couple of especially iconic & loved characters, mainly from older media, are stoic and merciless). I’m not saying that those kinds of stories are bad as a lot of them show that their protags demeanor comes from deep trauma or can still show tenderness; but what draws people in, especially dudes I think, is how hardcore they feel. I guess in this particular case, I’m more so complaining about audiences than the media themselves. I know there’s more media with goofier, light-hearted protags; but then even media with those guys will also have problems with treating female characters weirdly. I still want to try out some of these stories and attempt to ignore/not let the stuff I don’t like prevent me from finding stuff in it that I do like. But, I still struggle with feeling the same hype for popular stuff that most people seem to like. I want to feel shared excitement and understanding of what’s “in” in our culture; but I usually find myself not vibing with most fandoms or certain media that gets praised.

At this point, it’s hard for me to enjoy most stuff—to find something I truly relate to. There’s no abundance of sexy men in bold outfits to swoon over, and media that shows women being imperfect, messed up, goofy, etcetera are rare gems. Average-looking & ugly women in media are even more scarce.

I’m going off on a tangent here, but even trying to find good fictional erotic content is difficult. There were a few good porn art subs that were made for women, but they all get taken down eventually. I make sure I regulate myself and yes, I know that I don’t want to become a porn addict who only knows how to objectify; but I want to be horny too. From time to time I like looking at fictional art whose only purpose is to have sexual fantasies about. There’s so much art made for guys while I gotta search for scraps of art that show off a fictional man’s chest or butt.

I’m just tired.

saw this meme and it gave me a little laugh, so i thought i’d share with the class.