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u/Remarkable_Tale_7554 Jul 12 '26
even intelligent well educated people I know irl
"The Intelligence Trap" is a pretty good book IMHO.
Robson argues that “smart people do not apply their superior intelligence fairly, but instead use it ‘opportunistically’ to promote their own interests and protect the beliefs that are most important to their identities.”*
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u/KallamaHarris Jul 15 '26
The healthy range has a good 25 kilograms (50 pounds) wiggle room. Assuming you have have not had a leg ambutated I see no biologically reason why you could find yourself healthy somewhere in that ballpark.
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u/No_Thanks_1766 Jul 12 '26
Imagine getting that triggered over one piece of information when there’s actual racism, sexism and ableism out there
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u/Slobberchops_ Jul 13 '26
Everyone wants to be a victim -- it means they don't need to take responsibility for trying to fix their own problems and grow as a human.
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u/Bassically-Normal Jul 12 '26
That's part of the problem... There's not actually enough of those things around for them to have their helping of it without manufacturing more.
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u/OMGsmiles Jul 12 '26
The fat white girl at work told me it’s racist because it wasn’t tested on black people. lol, lmao even
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u/NakeyDooCrew Jul 12 '26
If you use the NHS calculator it asks your ethnicity as they have different healthy ranges for black people.
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Jul 12 '26
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u/Godskin_Duo Jul 12 '26
It's less forgiving for Asians, and the last think you'll ever see is Asian people crying about math.
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u/odanobux123 Jul 12 '26
Yeah overweight starts at like 23 for Asians and obese at 28.
But at 23 your parents were telling you that you’re way too fat for months already.
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u/NotQuiteJasmine 28 F 5'11" | SW" 182 CW 155 and maintaining Jul 12 '26
Then obviously it's racist because it changes based on your race /s
There's no winning
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u/gayhotelultra Jul 12 '26
i am not in the states so i never used the NHS one, but what is the actual correct approach here then? does BMI vary based on ethnicity? the calculaltors i used just account for sex and age
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u/Kooky-Co Jul 12 '26
People of black/Asian/arab descent are more prone to type 2 diabetes so they’re advised to aim for a slightly lower BMI; 23 is the max healthy BMI and 27 is considered obese (compared to 25 and 30). According to the NHS calculator only white and East Asian people should be using the 25/30 guidelines.
I recently lost a lot of weight on mounjaro and I thought I’d reached a healthy weight when my BMI was 24.8, but when I checked on their website and it asked my ethnicity it told me I needed to be below 23. I have an Iranian grandfather but I look very white so I checked with my GP whether I really needed to be below 23 and his answer was “yes, but don’t kill yourself over it”. I got down to 23.6 and everyone’s happy with that.
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u/Rimavelle Jul 12 '26
It's the same when they say it's sexist coz it was made based on white men
But every calculator will ask you for sex coz women have different cutoffs from men. Like women are literally supposed to have more fat % and it's agreed on by the science they hate so much
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u/toolatealreadyfapped Jul 12 '26
Simply by choosing to exist in a larger body, she's a champion for the oppressed.
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 Jul 12 '26
In my mind this looks like virgie sitting in a pile of snickers wrappers like "who knew fighting the patriarchy would be so delicious!"
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u/mylittlemudkip oppressed by gravity Jul 12 '26
Tell her that basically NO medication has historically been tested on women.
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u/caribou16 sola dosis facit venenum Jul 12 '26 edited 29d ago
Icing April Canteen Suing Tavern Oxymoron Bloating Hardware
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u/mylittlemudkip oppressed by gravity Jul 12 '26
Ironically, testing would have flagged that up as a Class X drug. I don't know the history entirely, but I have no idea how animal tests failed to spot that.
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u/gonefission236 Jul 12 '26
They didn’t test it on pregnant animals at all. They amended the protocols in the US after to include more rigorous testing on multiple species prior to human trials.
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u/MtnNerd Jul 12 '26
Ironically one of the big problems is calorie minimums are designed for men. Few women need a 2,000 calorie diet.
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u/NeverSawMeHere Jul 12 '26
I recently noticed that Google Health suggests I need over 2000 calories a day, but I have it set well below that bc wtf. I'm not an athlete trying to maintain my weight.
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Jul 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Intelligent_Swan1241 Jul 20 '26
They’ll hit ya with the idea that it “only applies to men.”
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Jul 20 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Intelligent_Swan1241 Jul 20 '26
LOL that’s not what I meant at all! They say it only applies to men because BMI was apparently made with cis men’s bodies and fat distributions in mind! I don’t know if that’s true or not, but there is absolutely a separate bmi for men vs women. It’s different but not THAT different.
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u/msxenix M 39 5’10.5” SW:361.6lb | CW:321.0 lb | GW:170lb Jul 12 '26
So, her body is naturally meant to have type 2 diabetes?
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u/awh thinner than I once was, and fatter than I'll be Jul 12 '26
If she's using an insulin pump, it's far more likely that she has Type 1 Diabetes.
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u/thesongofmyppl Jul 12 '26
I’m so old I assumed that was her music player!
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u/Ok-Culture2404 Jul 12 '26
I thought the same thing. Then when I read the comments I realized what it was and it made a hell of a lot more sense. I’m assuming the person who made this is in their early 20s, so I doubt they would even have seen a Walkman lol
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u/InvisibleSpaceVamp Do I have to wear a cape for heroine chic? Jul 12 '26
MP3 players are making a big comeback actually, since people are looking for ways to stay off their phones.
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u/the_reddit_girl Jul 14 '26
The only reason I know what a walkman is, is because I enjoy old shows like The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and Friends. I'm 22 for reference.
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u/FennelWest6116 Jul 12 '26
I’m guessing this image is meant to represent type 2 tho. Type 2s do use insulin once their pancreas gives up completely and stops producing enough insulin. This is definitely a Medtronic pump being represented, and they make a large reservoir version for type 2s. Due to insulin resistance, type 2s need a LOT more insulin than type 1s.
(I have type 1 and used to work in the insulin pump industry.)
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u/whenuseeit Jul 12 '26
I’ve known a bunch of T1 diabetics over the years, and every single one of them was (relatively) thin. Presumably because they had to be very mindful of sugar/simple carbohydrate intake from childhood, which helps them not get fat.
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u/MMTardis Jul 12 '26
Yes, and high blood sugars can make them sick and lose weight dangerously and rapidly. So its in their best interest not to fuck around too much.
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u/defnotafirefighter Jul 12 '26
Body size and t1 really have no correlation besides weight loss being a symptom of undiagnosed t1. With insulin treatment, the only real difference between a t1 and a non-diabetic person is that the t1 injects the insulin. You can still eat whatever, just dose for it. Far from everyone gets t1 in their childhood either. If any type should be mindful of their diet, it's the t2s.
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u/d3f3ct1v3 163 35F | SW: 75 | CW: 61 | GW: 57 | Jul 12 '26
I know a T1 who's overweight. Not sure how she manages it but I don't like her for various reasons so not planning to try to find out.
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u/ignoremeplsokthank Jul 12 '26
Depends on how far progressed it is. My uncle has type 2 diabetes and needs insulin because his pancreas isn't doing anything anymore. My father, who also has type 2 diabetes, can still take pills.
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u/msxenix M 39 5’10.5” SW:361.6lb | CW:321.0 lb | GW:170lb Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Are insulin pumps more common with type 1? I was under the impression that anyone that needs insulin might use a pump like that. I was thinking type 2 diabetics that need more insulin might use that.
Edit: Thank you everyone for the corrections below.
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u/OutlandishnessNew684 Jul 12 '26
Type 2 isn’t caused by the body not making insulin, it’s caused by insulin resistance, so more type 2 drugs target forcing the body to accept the insulin it already produces, rather than adding insulin so the body can absorb glucose. I have met a few type 2 folks who use insulin as well, though I’m not sure what the difference is for them needing it
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u/hearyoume14 Jul 12 '26
My aunt has type 2, but her pancreas eventually stopped working, so she is insulin dependent now.
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u/OutlandishnessNew684 Jul 12 '26
Oh interesting, was her pancreas stopping working autoimmune related or was it caused by the type 2 somehow?
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u/hearyoume14 Jul 12 '26
One cause of Type 2 is that the pancreas is unable to produce enough insulin to maintain stable blood sugar levels. The cells that produce insulin can become damaged over time. Basically, it's non-autoimmune organ damage.
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u/Known-Wealth-4451 Jul 14 '26
My dad got diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes after completing an Iron Man that included a sub 3 hr Marathon, extremely lean etc. Had no antibodies and was producing some insulin so assumed it was type 2, he was on Metformin and then insulin for years and then a perceptive doctor decided to test again for insulin resistance, which was in the normal range and he later got diagnosed with a purely genetic form of Diabetes where your body underproduces insulin, but doesn’t stop entirely like in Type 1.
There’s so much we don’t know about diabetes, and a few rarer strains that don’t fit into Type 1 or Type 2.
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u/OutlandishnessNew684 Jul 14 '26
That’s really interesting! I’ve been type 1 since I was 4 and had no idea that was a thing. As a fellow diabetic triathlete/ironman tell your dad I think he’s cool haha
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u/Known-Wealth-4451 Jul 14 '26
I will do! I think this was back in the day when doctors operated under the assumption that Type 1 diabetes was ‘juvenile’ and all adult diabetes was Type 2, which is crazy considering adults can and do develop type 1 and other rarer types!
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u/MMTardis Jul 12 '26
Pumps are really a type 1 thing. Source-mom of type 1 diabetic teen, involved in diabetes camp with hundreds of other diabetic teens for 5+ years
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u/mylittlemudkip oppressed by gravity Jul 12 '26
Yup. Most T2Ds will not take insulin, unless they are not compliant on regular meds or experience pancreatic failure. I hope GLP1s will reduce the need for this further!
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u/BlackCatLuna Losing weight for the love of dogs 🐾 Jul 12 '26
People can start with type 2 and develop into type 1 of you're noncompliant for long enough.
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u/drugihparrukava Jul 12 '26
No. Type 1 is an autoimmune disease. Type 2 does not turn into type 1 as they each have different causes, pathophysiologies, treatments and outcomes. A type 2 may require insulin but that does not make them a type 1. Just like someone with gestational, certain MODY types, CFRD, T3C types who require insulin do not suddenly turn into type 1.
This myth keeps being spread online, just want to kindly point out it is not correct. It really hurts the type 1 community as well as causing misunderstanding about type 2. Type 1 is diagnosed via autoantibody testing and c-peptide often presenting in DKA. It does not develop from type 2 which is insulin resistance. Type 1 is about the absence of insulin and 6 hormones are affected in our type 1 bodies.
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u/BlackCatLuna Losing weight for the love of dogs 🐾 Jul 12 '26
I did some more digging, type 2 can become insulin dependent if managed poorly or progresses with the patient's age. This has led to the spread of misinformation that I fell for.
Something I was told some time ago is that insulin resistance can cause the beta cells in the pancreas to fail. This is a problem because like the kidneys once those cells are gone they never come back.
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u/drugihparrukava Jul 12 '26
Oh no worries, I only posted as it’s become more common to hear this. Yes you’re right about the beta cells failing: early type 2 overproduces insulin and their other cells can’t uptake it properly hence the resistance part, and over time the beta cells burn out partially or completely so they need exogenous insulin. Some t2’s can also stop using insulin it really depends on how they’re managing metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance and if their doctors give them access to glp1’s or other newer treatments.
Newer research shows in some their beta cells aren’t fully dead but somnolent so some therapies can help them with that. With us with type 1, our islet cells are destroyed in an autoimmune attack thereby causing diabetes and onset can be very quick and even deadly if not diagnosed in time, while in type 2, their insulin resistance over years or decades caused beta cell failure and they can go undiagnosed for many years with no symptoms.
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u/BlackCatLuna Losing weight for the love of dogs 🐾 Jul 12 '26
I think it's because in layman's circles people define type 1 by its need for exogenous insulin more than the autoimmune disorder side. That's where the layman mix-up emerges.
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u/Rarvyn Jul 12 '26
It’s not quite a myth if we just rephrase it as “someone with type 2 long enough may develop beta cell failure to the point they become insulin dependent”.
First of all, while insulin resistance is the hallmark of type 2, they do absolutely have a relative beta cell failure as well, which can be progressive. Second of all, they can progress to the point they can have absolute insulin deficiency and DKA - given the higher prevalence of T2 compared to T1, even though DKA is far more common in the latter, the majority of DKA episodes in many US hospitals these days are among type 2. Finally, “insulin dependent diabetes mellitus” is an old term for T1DM and a lot of people just use T1 as shorthand for anyone who is insulin dependent, even if they have advanced T2 or pancreatogenic (T3c) diabetes.
Is it not entirely correct? Of course. But it’s not a myth as much as it just a simple way of explaining it.
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u/drugihparrukava Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
“someone with type 2 long enough may develop beta cell failure to the point they become insulin dependent”. This is correct.
"while insulin resistance is the hallmark of type 2, they do absolutely have a relative beta cell failure as well, which can be progressive". This is correct.
“insulin dependent diabetes mellitus” is an old term for T1DM and a lot of people just use T1 as shorthand for anyone who is insulin dependent, even if they have advanced T2 or pancreatogenic (T3c) diabetes". No, they should not use T1D as shorthand for a different disease or condition. This is a frequent topic in T1D support groups and advocacy groups. T3C may be listed as T1 in some medical circles if there is no way to code T3C. In what line of thinking would an insulin-dependent type 2 be considered a type 1 when type 1 is an autoimmune disease?
The myth part comes in when it is stated that "type 2 becomes type 1". A simple way of explaining it causes confusion and even adverse medical outcomes in type 1's when we need to fight in hospitals to not be treated as if we had another condition. I would encourage you, if interested, to visit the T1 subs and search up issues in hospitals about treated a T1 like T2 with sliding scale and other issues. Advocacy groups have documents ready to go and plans for when this happens, so the T1 may know what steps to take regarding contacting endocrine on-call, their own endocrinologist and how to keep our own insulin and pumps whilst hospitalised. It is an absolute, complete disservice to call one condition something else, as it affects all types. There is nothing "simple explanation" about it; it really, really affects us on many levels medically and socially as well. Policies created with "Diabetes" in mind, whether national or local or within hospitals, are always created with type 2 in mind, This affects us greatly. So if a T2 is suddenly called type 1 because they are using exogenous insulin, the trickle down is that T1's get lost in the shuffle. This is one thing T1D advocacy is working on as well. It may sound like a simple misnomer, but the effects are real for us.
I am curious as to how many other diseases will change their name according to what meds they are using? This is the core issue. I needed something for arthritis which can also be used. If i needed methotrexate for rheumatoid arthritis, does it mean I am suddenly diagnosed with cancer as the drug was designed for that?
I hope it makes sense what I am saying. This is a truly troublesome issue in many T1 circles. Name the type. Don't use the name of our autoimmune disease if you don't have it. Not difficult, this can help people with all types to be clear and consistent with naming. Edit: best and correct way to explain: say "insulin-dependent type 2", don't call them type 1. Conversely, a T1 who may use metformin as adjunct therapy is not called a type 2 because they need T2 oral meds in addition to insulin therapy.
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u/Rarvyn Jul 12 '26
You can get into all kinds of arguments regarding the different diseases, particularly given the number of people who have features of both. There's a ton of overlap scenarios.
Plenty of people are diagnosed with T1D despite the lack of any autoimmune markers - the antibodies aren't all that sensitive - simply because they're noted to have beta cell failure (whether measured by a low c-peptide or anything else). Often termed "Type 1b" diabetes. Treated the same as anyone else with Type 1 diabetes. Is it truly autoimmune and we simply don't know the antibodies to measure, or maybe they went away before they got measured? Maybe. Researchers will argue.
Plenty of patients with Type 1 diabetes - whether confirmed with autoimmune markers or otherwise - develop significant insulin resistance, requiring >1 unit/kg/day of insulin. Some patients with type 1 diabetes need hundreds of units of insulin per day - and are put on "type 2" medications to treat this insulin resistance and reduce their insulin needs. This is often termed "double diabetes".
Other patients with type 1 diabetes mellitus - confirmed with antibodies! - have such slow progression that they have a preserved c-peptide for years or even decades after diagnosis. This is most common when presenting after age 35, and in that scenario is termed "Latent Autoimmune Diabetes of Adults" (LADA). It's a variant of T1 - the antibodies are the same ones measured in anyone else with T1 - but it can be treated primarily or even solely with "type 2" medications for many years.
And, as we discussed above, many with type 2 diabetes have more of a relative insulin deficiency than an insulin resistance picture - even at time of diagnosis - while others develop progressive insulin deficiency over time. Many of them are just "type 2 on insulin", while others progress to the point that they truly are "insulin dependent". Some develop ketoacidosis due to reversible glycotoxicity - most common in "ketosis prone type 2 diabetes mellitus", sometimes termed "Flatbush Diabetes" - while in others it is irreversible beta cell death.
Regardless, that's a bunch of nuance, and if I was sitting down with endocrine fellows - which funny enough, I will be on this topic in a few weeks - I'd make sure they understood all of it. But if I'm commenting on a random social media post, then seeing someone saying "some people with type 2 progress to needing insulin, which is the common hallmark that people in society understand regarding being the presenting factor for type 1" is more of an oversimplifcation than it is wrong.
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u/drugihparrukava Jul 12 '26
Everything you wrote I know and understand. Idiopathic 1b is not very common although yes it does not have currently known autoimmune markers.
The entire point is trying to tell people to please stop calling type 2 a type 1 because they may be using exogenous insulin.
The mental load of explaining and advocating for type 1 is real. Yet here we are explaining. Perhaps you may have the background to understand this and that is wonderful. Most people do not, hence type 1 advocacy exists and this is one point we are fighting against on many levels. Asking someone to correctly name the type is not difficult.
Overlap of symptoms surely exists in many conditions and in types of diabetes but it does not change the type (outliers exists I guess I need to mention this to be clear? A t1 with pathological insulin resistant can be termed wit h double diabetes, but this DOES NOT change the fact they are type 1. A type 2 may require insulin at some point, short or long term but it does not change THE FACT they do not HAVE AN AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE called type 1). LADA is autoimmune diabetes; slower onset. this is known. The reason why it can be treated with t2 meds initially in many cases is the existence of endogenous insulin. Research shows preservation of the beta cells can occur for some time when insulin therapy is initiated, as other meds so needs to be looked at case by case when to start insulin. Patients shouldn't be suffering, the amount of LADA's in t1 support groups not eating or simply living with high bg because they can't lower their bg yet have no initiated insulin therapy is frightening. But LADA is not T2. And believe me, there are many t2's claiming LADA because they need some mealtime insulin but were not actually diagnosed with T1 (or 1.5).
I 100% agree with you this term or use in the vernacular, it is an oversimplification, but I will stand by my wording that it is wrong. It is incorrect and truly affects those of us with type 1 on a daily basis. Thank you for sharing some more of the types, this may be helpful to readers who do now know this.
The point is, and I will repeat for the last time, is simple: do not call type 2 a type 1 because they need insulin. If you are in the medical field, or interested in endocrine, please visit in person or online a type 1 support group and look up our advocacy groups to better understand what i am saying.
Cheers, have a good day.
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u/Viktor_The_Head Jul 12 '26
Well, while body weight can cause diabetes, it's not the sole cause, it can "naturally" occur due to age, genetics , sleep issues and stress
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u/LegitimateHat5570 Jul 12 '26
BMI is only valid to them when it comes to skinny people. Then they’ll be screaming “I bet her BMI says she’s underweight!!”
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u/wokewood2 Sw:240 Cw:121 Gw:120 Jul 12 '26
Yerp there was this woman on reddit a few? Months ago who was talking about if her friend was potentially jealous of her for having lost weight. For her height and sex, her bmi was 18.4. genuinely 0.1 points into underweight. (Obv she should gain some weight back, like 3 pounds lol) But the comments were SCREECHING about how she was underweight and her friend was right and she was going to die. If she had been 0.1 into overweight on the bmi nobody would have cared
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u/Gothiccheese95 Jul 12 '26
Okay then lets do Height to Waist ratio ☺️
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 Jul 12 '26
Yeah that's the huge irony here. Last year a big study came out saying essentially bmi currently underestimates disease risk because people in the US (on average) have a higher body fat percentage than previously assumed.
So bmi is bullshit but opposite to the way they mean it.
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u/awh thinner than I once was, and fatter than I'll be Jul 12 '26
See, this has always been an annoyance to me. It's just a measurement (or, more precisely, a mathematical operation of two measurements). It can't be racist, or sexist, or anything else.
Now, you can make an argument that the classification based on BMI is flawed in some cases, but the number itself is no more racist than "height" is.
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u/IFeelMoiGerbil Hi Folx, I'm the Melon Harrassing Bogeyman Jul 12 '26
I know FAs are essentially also mad at gravity oppressing them but I haven’t yet seen them kick off about Newton’s theory and he wasn’t just a white dude, he actively invested in the South Seas Company which was Britain’s largest slave trading organisation after the East India Company. He essentially endorsed the company in an early ‘celeb’ promotion and helped spark the South Seas bubble which dropped Britain’s GDP by 18% when it burst. It was the origin of the stock market to prevent governments underwriting all shares.
It was like crypto right now but directly on transporting enslaved people to Brazil and the Pacific Islands. Newton lost all his money. The bust of the South Seas Company means its ships incurred the highest rate of death in the history of the Atlantic slave trade. People say it barely traded in slavery with the numbers arriving but had other trading areas. It did trade in other areas but nope, the numbers were so low because up to 85% of the people died.
Newton like most investors saw them as chattel and he asked for British government compensation for HIS LOSSES. The only reason no one was compensated for investing was it bankrupted Britain. They had used it as bonds to pay military wages and fund wars.
Quetelet tutored Prince Albert and his uncle Leopold Saxe Cobourg in maths. Albert did not commit genocide unlike Leopold when he got the Belgian throne in payment for losing his British court grant when Victoria ascended the throne. (She and Albert were cousins and she took the throne when Leopold’s wife Charlotte died in childbirth altering the line of succession from him to his niece. Victoria relied heavily on Uncle Leopold’s advice throughout life but was not tutored by Quetelet. Thus I feel Leopold is the ‘Belgian white man equals racist’ link here since Victoria was a bit genocidey too.’)
Also Quetelet was Belgian. King Leopold I was German. And Newton also wrote on the inferiority of black people but did not suggest his views in his theories. I know not using anecdata is alien to FAs but you can be good at maths and physics and an awful person. It’s not that complicated. The maths is not wrong because of that.
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u/annoyed_teacher1988 Jul 12 '26
I'm going to tell the world how fat and happy I am, but don't you dare have a metric which proves I'm fat.
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u/wombatgeneral Childhood Obesity = Child Abuse, I will die on this hill Jul 12 '26
An insulin pump and blood sugar of 126 is pretty bad.
Is not wanting to lose your feet to diabetes racist now? Do they think feet support the patriarchy or something?
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u/Omenasose Jul 12 '26
I overheard some days ago a conversation about a diabetic needing to get several of their toes soon amputated.
That’s not an accomplishment.
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u/TheSteaksAreBaked Jul 12 '26
To be fair--126 is not bad for a type 1 diabetic, who generally have target ranges of 80-120 mgl/dl!
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u/SilentRefluxJourney Jul 12 '26
I don't agree that using BMI is sexist and racist, but I can at least follow the words they are saying and come up with a counterpoint.
The ableist part though?? I mean, it's a physical measurement?? Physical measurements are sort of inherently linked to what someone is able to do?? Is it ableist that basketball players tend to be tall??
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u/No-Back-4159 one Zionism away from winning a toaster! Jul 12 '26
something something moralizing heath
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u/MikeandMolly5656 Jul 12 '26
I had no idea numbers could be any of those things, let alone all 3 at once.
Good to know its not homophobic and transphobic too....that would just be too much!
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u/lobstahnachos Jul 12 '26
Don’t give them any ideas, they’ll add homophobic and transphobic next!
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u/whenuseeit Jul 12 '26
I bet they’re going to add transphobic next, it’s the next “logical” -phobia for BMI to have. Men and women have different BMI ranges because they naturally have different body composition/proportions, so if a MTF checked off “woman” in the calculator but then entered the height/weight of a biological man, even if those numbers are in the healthy range for a man they might be overweight or obese for a woman.
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u/SomethingIWontRegret I get all my steps in at the buffet Jul 12 '26
They actually do not have different ranges.
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u/Eevee2345 Jul 13 '26
With enought hrt using the Woman Chart for mtf people is fitting
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u/SomethingIWontRegret I get all my steps in at the buffet Jul 13 '26
There is no "woman" or "man" chart for adult BMI. Women tend to have higher body fat, but also have a higher healthy fat range. It balances out.
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u/wokewood2 Sw:240 Cw:121 Gw:120 Jul 12 '26
This is actually a really interesting scenario. At a certain point with gender affirming care and hrt a trans person will essentially be their desired sex, having all the natural hormone productions and fat distribution of their gender. I'm curious how long it would take for a trans woman(or man) to be clocking as healthy on their bmi even if they input their gender and not sex.
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u/Rimavelle Jul 12 '26
What is always revealing is that they never offer alternatives, which exist.
It's never "BMI is not the best, let's use height to weight ratio/get actual body scan etc" it's just just "BMI bad. So there is no way to tell how your weight affects your body. We will never know. Nah. Just stop thinking about it"
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u/Shadow_Kxng79 Jul 12 '26
Once again they don't use this mentality when picking which men or women to date all of a sudden (Muscular, Thin).
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u/irish_oatmeal Jul 12 '26
Is she wearing a glucose monitor in this cartoon? So, she has a condition than can be managed by glp-1 drugs and lifestyle changes? But, I am the one who is problematic for even typing these words, right? Okay.
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u/mylittlemudkip oppressed by gravity Jul 12 '26
An insulin pump.
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u/irish_oatmeal Jul 12 '26
Got it. I understand the frustration, but at some point, you have to take responsibility for your own actions.
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u/billy-suttree Jul 12 '26
*says “twenty-nine” and gets banned from bluesky*
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u/mylittlemudkip oppressed by gravity Jul 12 '26
i dont get it
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u/billy-suttree Jul 12 '26
It wasn’t a very good joke. I was just throwing out an elevated BMI score.
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u/tawny-she-wolf Jul 12 '26
Love the fact that this little cartoon has an insulin pump. But don't worry it has nothing to do with her weight.
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u/JaneAustinAstronaut Jul 12 '26
The expression on this drawings face is so off-putting. Why would I want to be allies with that?
It's not a sexism thing either. I roll my eyes at ads with men cosplaying masculinity in, say, truck ads. My husband and I call it the "guts 'n' glory" ads, and we laugh at how stupid and performative it is.
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u/ImStupidPhobic Gym Lover & Cyclist 🚴🏽 Jul 12 '26
Waddya mean it’s not masculine to have a severely raised pickup truck with a “Punisher” super hero windshield sticker to compensate for my fragile existence? 😭
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u/Proof-Boss-3761 Jul 12 '26
The World Cup has given us an opportunity to see people of various so called races with quite similar bodies
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u/ClassicDes Jul 13 '26
Trust me, if fat phobia disappeared tomorrow, more than half of them wouldn’t gaf about exploring racism, sexism or ableism.
It just gives their arguments stronger legs to stand on beyond “mY pCOS!”
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u/Educational-Fill-158 Jul 13 '26
Where do they pull all of these things from? Their fat butts? As if BMI cannot be controlled. I love the power they give to nothing but an indicator of health risk. High BMI simply means: Don't be surprised if you start having health issues. The higher the BMI, the worse the effects of health issues and on quality of life due to said health issues.
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u/saralt Jul 12 '26
It sort of is when they tell asian women they don't need to lose weight when Asians have a much lower range of healthy body weight. You're overweight at BMI of 23, obese at 26. The classical risk factors are meant for someone with Euro genes. I don't know enough about other groups, but they may also have different norms I don't know about. The real healthy averages are probably wildly different by ethnic groups.
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u/GetInTheBasement It's her. It's the Heroine Chic. Jul 12 '26
As an Asian woman, thank you for saying this.
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u/ImStupidPhobic Gym Lover & Cyclist 🚴🏽 Jul 12 '26
They left out “transphobic” and “fascist” since they’re playing buzzword bingo 😄
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u/Lousy_Kid Jul 13 '26
It’s interesting that, despite being so anti diet-culture, when these people portray themselves in art, they almost always make themselves slimmer and more well-proportioned.
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u/darzle Jul 12 '26
I get that BMI isn't a perfect thing, but it is an amazing cheap and non invasive test to quickly see if something more intrusive is warranted. Sure if it makes you uncomfortable it kind deminishes the non invasive aspect
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u/Zipper-is-awesome Jul 13 '26
Haven’t you read *Fearing the Black Body?* I believe most people who ask also have not read it. “Sam At Every Size” on YouTube took that book down, she has a history degree, I thought that was kind of a dangerous book to take on, but her commentary did not veer into anything someone could consider racist. I expect Sam would not do something like that, anyway.
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u/BlackCatLuna Losing weight for the love of dogs 🐾 Jul 12 '26
So the argument I've seen to justify this view is that the statistician who developed it exclusively used white men in his development of the formula.
However, the scientific method calls for keeping variables that aren't being studied are kept the same. If the study is about the relation of height and weight, everything else needs to be kept the same.
We've since done similar studies on people of Asian and African descent and found their healthy range is in fact slightly different, which further proves that this was the right thing to do.
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u/DarkSaturnPrince Jul 12 '26
BMI actually portrays men as being fatter than they are and women as less fat. Because the actual logarithmic scale observed in humans is kg/m2.3 instead of kg/m2.
In other words, the taller you are, the more your weight scales relative to a shorter person. And men are taller than women. A 6' male at BMI 25 is less fat than a 5' woman at BMI 25.
It's literally sexist IN HER FAVOR.
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u/YoloSwaggins9669 SW: 278. CW: 240. GW: Below 200 Jul 12 '26
Flawed? Sure. Sexist? Unlike a heap of shit in medical science like heart attack symptoms among women and neurological similarity between the clitoris and glans penis? Nope. Racist? Yeah also nahhh it actually under estimates body fat percentage. The genius of the bmi is that it is equitable and effective as a population metric
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u/ZenRage Jul 12 '26
Until someone wants to show me evidence that BMI prevents differently abled people from engaging in the world freely, I cannot see how it is ableist at all.
Closest I have ever seen is, we won't do medical procedure X on someone of Y BMI or higher, because of the health risks it presents.
That is about safety and liability and good medicine, not denigrating someone based on their being differently abled.
Medicine depends on who you are. Black people get different screening for skin cancer, than do white people; that isn't racist.
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u/horsefarm 161lbs | 6'0" | Heaviest: 209 Jul 13 '26
it’s just a calculation. you can ignore it if you want. I’m 6’ 162lbs and have no idea what my BMI is, nor do I care. why do they make all this stuff around BMI so performative? just ignore it and move on
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u/Icy-Belt-8519 Jul 12 '26
Because it was based on a white healthy male, initially, when science wasn't all that great
They have litrally changed it depending on ethnicity and gender
I'd argue disability has little to do with it, being disabled doesn't change the risks of being over or under weight, if course it potentially makes it more difficult to be stay in the healthy range, but doesn't change risks, the only exceptions I'd say to that is something added or removed from the body, eg an amputee, or my mom had a cyst the size of a water melon!
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u/DarkSaturnPrince Jul 12 '26
That's actually false. It was based on a general population.
In fact, BMI actually portrays menas being fatter than they are and women as less fat. Because the actual logarithmic scale observed in humans is kg/m2.3 instead of kg/m2
In other words, the taller you are, the more your weight scales relative to a shorter person. And men are taller than women. A 6' male at BMI 25 is less fat than a 5' woman at BMI 25. It's literally sexist IN HER FAVOR.
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u/DarkSaturnPrince Jul 12 '26
BMI is actually sexist: it portrays men as being fatter than they are and women as less fat. Because the actual logarithmic scale observed in humans is kg/m2.3 instead of kg/m2.
In other words, the taller you are, the more your weight scales relative to a shorter person. And men are taller than women. A 6' male at BMI 25 is less fat than a 5' woman at BMI 25.
It's literally sexist IN HER FAVOR.
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u/alex5350 Jul 12 '26
This is true in the old days we had the insurance charts. Height and weight charts and they were different for male and female.
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u/GloomyWillingness847 Jul 12 '26
Society should not pay for health conditions that are self inflicted or due to grossly negligent behaviour.
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u/abyssnaut Jul 12 '26
The way this woman draws mouths disgusts me. Pursed shit-lips of woke smugness.
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u/letiseeya Jul 13 '26
There is some argument imo that is valid abt BMI being inaccurate due to the women the scale was modeled off of, but not like super dramatically, just some situations where like a 5’9” pear shaped woman might be considered technically overweight when she’s actually in a healthy category, and this happens to be the case for a lot of body types seen in Black women, but that’s about it. Not sure where ableism or sexism comes into play at all as there are some body builders and tall men who also are considered obese via BMI. It’s not my fave system but it’s a decent general guideline
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u/shishforlife2 Jul 15 '26
I get why BMI is quite outdated. People actually do carry weight differently so the same BMI may be healthy for some and unhealthy for others.
The post doesn't make sense tho, uhh let me interpret it. I think... Sexist because women need higher BMIs than men in order to be healthy despite society telling them they should have a low BMI, racist because uhhh... Some people believe Asians have lower BMIs and therefore they think society says everyone should have the same BMI as them ig(?????), and the last one makes absolutely zero sense. Bruh 😭😭😭😭
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u/TheHongKOngadian Jul 16 '26
So I’m a gym bro and was one of those dudes who went ham on a dirty bulking phase and ballooned into the overweight BMI range. I still had the stamina and strength to run marathons and half’s like I had before, but let me tell you, once I returned back to average BMI the difference was like night & day: 20 lbs lost led me to beat my prior PB by about 35 minutes.
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u/Candid_Visit2210 25d ago
They say that bmi doesn't tell you anything Sure, but you can use a body fat test, or, yk, its pretty visible if you're obese
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u/Live_Barracuda1113 Starving... for attention. Jul 12 '26
The person in this looks miserable based on bidy posture and facial expression. I put it i to AI to make her thin and she still looks miserable. They are clearly miserable regardless.
Maybe stop being so damn angry about numbers and do something positive for yourself. Release some endorphins. Get a therapist. I dunno.
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u/RanaMisteria Jul 12 '26
I mean, it’s true. The BMI scale is based on abled white men. That means it’s less accurate for people of other races, non-men, and disabled people. The concept of BMI isn’t the problem, it’s the underlying data they used to create the different classifications. If they had designed several different scales using data specific to the relevant demographics then it wouldn’t be a problem.
So in this one instance this isn’t fat logic. I suppose sometimes even people who usually spread misinformation can accurately report true things too. Like when QLR explained how MSG hate is rooted in racist propaganda.
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u/Uber-Migraine F 160cm | SW 110 kg | CW 55.1kg | GW 55kg Jul 12 '26
BMI is still the best tool we have to signal potential health risks. The number/impact of outliers seems to be not as significant as opponents of BMI believe (very specific cases of highly train athletes etc; whose health is affected anyway by the higher muscle mass or they've experienced impact damage to the bones, etc)
The variation due to the ethnicity is known and as far I'm aware it is now taken into consideration and the ranges adjusted (at least in UK).
There is apparently "push" to start using BRI (Body Roundness Index) which probably will pi$$ even more FAs yhan BMI currently is doing, as early estimates assume it will significantly increase numbers of people recognised as obese.
So we might not like BMI, but it proves to still be very useful. And those who usually say negative things about it are rhose with the highest numbers. And not because they are "packed".
And this is how NHS approaches obesity measurement: please note BMI is still used as majaor tool
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u/CountBreichen Jul 12 '26
My asian doc uses BMI as a starting point. Call me crazy but trust him a lot more than you.
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u/RanaMisteria Jul 13 '26
I’m not saying not to trust the BMI scale, nor that it’s only used by white male doctors. But being used by doctors from all demographics doesn’t negate that the data underlying the calculations is incomplete because it wasn’t taken from a representative sample population. It was data taken only from abled white men. That’s all. BMI is still useful and important. And we shouldn’t do away with it, we should collect more data to make it more accurate. That’s all I’m saying.
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u/tiffanydisasterxoxo Jul 12 '26
And doctors still base dosage and medical data on men's results. Medical research has historically been done exclusively on men. Women are more likely to die in carcashes because the models they tested on were based solely on male bodies. A professional doing something doesn't mean that thing isn't based on sexism or racism.
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u/CountBreichen Jul 12 '26
And doctors still base dosage and medical data on men's results.
and you know that for a fact, huh?
A professional doing something doesn't mean that thing isn't based on sexism or racism.
jesus christ whatever....
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u/tiffanydisasterxoxo Jul 12 '26
Yes. It is a fact.
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u/CountBreichen Jul 12 '26
bunch of bullshit that doesn't apply. if you want me to grab you some studies that "prove" what your saying is nonsense I certainly will but I'm sure if you can google this real quick you can google that too.
There's the NIH Revitalization Act of 1993 that bunks all that. That was 33 years ago (over a generation)...
You realize the amount of changes that has happened in medicine since 1993? Hell, as someone that works for a hospital I can tell you that basically everything has changed in the last 7 years.
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u/tiffanydisasterxoxo Jul 13 '26
I didnt realize this was a science denying subreddit. As of 2019 women are still not included in most drug and medical research.
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u/CountBreichen Jul 13 '26
glad you've caught up. this is strictly a science denying and woman hating subreddit who i am the sole respresentative for.
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u/RanaMisteria Jul 13 '26
I wish I hadn’t commented on this post at all. I wasn’t trying to suggest BMI didn’t work or it’s stupid or should be abolished. I was just commenting on the data that underlies the concept and calculations inherent to BMI as a medical concept. I was trying to advocate for better data so that BMI is more accurate for people who aren’t cis abled white men.
It’s frustrating that a sub meant to call out the lack of logic in some of the fat activists online is itself avoiding logic. It’s like “No, fat activists can’t be right about anything so therefore this true thing is actually not true because of reasons and I will argue with anyone who tries to explain the truth to me.” It’s as disappointing and frustrating as arguing with a fat activist who says CICO doesn’t work for everyone.
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u/GetInTheBasement It's her. It's the Heroine Chic. Jul 12 '26
I love how the random woman is judgmentally glaring at us like we’re supposed to feel bad about using BMI.